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Face
Citizen
Username: Face
Post Number: 501
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 12:35 pm: | 
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After listening to four years of wailing about unsubstantiated claims the US Civil Rights Commission should start an investigation into the real-life, honest-to-goodness, cut-and-dried case of actually attempting to disenfranchised voters in Wisconsin this past November.
The AP article, (link provided below), also refers to these criminals as "activists" when, in fact, they were Paid Members of John Kerry’s Campaign Staff. Nice huh!
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBRICGAD4E.html
BTW, how about throwing in the fact that they interfered with a federal election and violated the Civil Rights Act of 1965 while they’re at it.
http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/overview.html
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notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 1934
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 1:58 pm: |
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I'm not sure that disefranchising is really what happened in this case. I'd just call it politically-motivated vandalism.
"The activists - all employees of the John Kerry campaign - are accused of flattening the tires on 25 vehicles rented by the state Republican Party to get out the vote and deliver poll watchers Nov. 2."
This is illegal and immoral behavior. The perpetrators deserve punishment.
Of course, the scale of this act of vandalism by a few peons pales in comparison to many documented acts of voter suppression and disenfranchisement perpetrated by various Republican officials. |
Albatross
Citizen
Username: Albatross
Post Number: 458
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 2:08 pm: |
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"Paid Members of John Kerry's Campaign Staff" does not equal "Paid By Kerry Campaign To Slash Tires". "Poll Watchers Late" does not equal "Disenfranchised Voters".
Question: If people were prevented from voting, why wouldn't the state GOP director and the GOP as a whole be making a much bigger deal of it?
...and your link is an overview of a DOJ Division, not the text of a law. The applicable law that you cite is called the Voting Rights Act of 1965 (AKA Civil Rights Act) and the applicable portions are these:
quote:SEC. 7. (a) The examiners for each political subdivision shall, at such places as the Civil Service Commission shall by regulation designate, examine applicants concerning their qualifications for voting. An application to an examiner shall be in such form as the Commission may require and shall contain allegations that the applicant is not otherwise registered to vote.
SEC. 12. (a) Whoever shall deprive or attempt to deprive any person of any right secured by section 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, or 10 or shall violate section 11(a) or (b), shall be fined not more than $5,000, or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
http://www.ourdocuments.gov/doc.php?doc=100&page=transcript
The felons in the article should be given a good whack upside the head and the appropriate penalty under the law. Property destruction, definately. But the VRA violation would only apply if they knew that these vans would be carrying poll watchers. Personally, I'd guess that they DID know.
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lumpynose
Citizen
Username: Lumpyhead
Post Number: 1090
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 2:10 pm: |
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Please document these acts. It was investigated and was found to be completely fabricated. It was all about perception, not reality. |
lumpynose
Citizen
Username: Lumpyhead
Post Number: 1092
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 3:01 pm: |
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My last post was to Notehead. Still waiting for proof. The tire slashing by bitter dems IS documented. People make things up to perpetuate their senseless hatred of those who have different views. |
Face
Citizen
Username: Face
Post Number: 502
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 9:24 am: |
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Notehead, I too would like to see you back up your outrageous claim that there are, "many documented acts of voter suppression and disenfranchisement perpetrated by various Republican officials."
Like giving out cigarettes at a homeless shelter, clearly with the intent of enticing them to the polls? Oh wait, forget it that was again the Democrats.
Democrats lie and then repeat those lies over and over until they somehow come to believe them. Need evidence, review Michael Moore's movie.
If you aren't continuing that then please provide evidence. Thank you |
notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 1940
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 10:09 am: |
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Gee, guys, you're gonna make me repeat myself. This subject has already gotten a lot of mileage around here. Here's some of what I came across during the months before the election....
These first three were from the NYT, although the links no longer worked (my original posts about these had the links):
- Just weeks before the deadline to register, Kenneth Blackwell, Ohio's secretary of state, instructed the state's county boards of election to reject registrations on paper of less than 80-pound stock - the sort used for paperback-book covers and postcards, compared with the 20-to-24-pound stock in everyday use. He said he was concerned about forms' being mailed without envelopes and mangled by postal equipment. But the directive applied to all registration forms, even those sent in an envelope or delivered by hand. Mr. Blackwell, a Republican, acted in the midst of an unprecedented state voter registration drive, which is signing up far more Democrats than Republicans. Under intense criticism, Mr. Blackwell has backed off. Earlier this week, his office said it would not be the "paper police," but said it was not withdrawing the directive. Yesterday, it said he had advised county boards to accept registrations on any paper. But the advisory is worded so inartfully that it could create confusion. And it is unclear how many registrations may have already been rejected. The burden is now on Mr. Blackwell to ensure that counties have not rejected valid registrations. Mr. Blackwell's second directive tells local elections officials to follow a bad policy Ohio adopted on provisional ballots. This is the first presidential election in which every voter whose eligibility is in doubt has the right to cast a ballot and to have the vote's validity verified later. But Ohio and some other states have tried to gut this guarantee by not counting provisional ballots cast in the wrong polling places. There is no reason to do that. This rule could void many votes. There will be a flood of first-time voters this year, who may not know where to vote. And some polling places have been changed by redistricting. Poor people and members of minorities, who move more often than most voters, are likely to be most affected. Ohio Democrats, who expect to do well among these groups, are fighting the rule in court.
- In Colorado, Secretary of State Donetta Davidson, also a Republican, has issued a bizarre ruling of her own on this issue. She will allow provisional ballots cast at the wrong polling places to count for only the presidential race. The Senate race in Colorado, among the closest in the nation, could determine control of the Senate, and there is no reason all valid provisional ballots should not count in this race or for statewide ballot propositions. Colorado Common Cause is challenging Ms. Davidson's rule, but she should not need a court to tell her to count the votes.
- Republican-linked group, Voters Outreach of America, was found to have destroyed voter-registration forms its workers had collected from Democratic voters in Nevada and Oregon.
A report entitled "The Long Shadow of Jim Crow" from the NAACP documents additional instances:
- In South Dakota’s June 2004 primary, Native American voters were prevented from voting after they were challenged to provide photo IDs, which they were not required to present under state or federal law.
- In Kentucky in July 2004, Black Republican officials joined to ask their State GOP party chairman to renounce plans to place “vote challengers” in African-American precincts during the coming elections.
- Earlier this year in Texas, a local district attorney claimed that students at a majority black college were not eligible to vote in the county where the school is located. It happened in Waller County – the same county where 26 years earlier, a federal court order was required to prevent discrimination against the students.
- In 2003 in Philadelphia, voters in African American areas were systematically challenged by men carrying clipboards, driving a fleet of some 300 sedans with magnetic signs designed to look like law enforcement insignia.
- In 2002 in Louisiana, flyers were distributed in African American communities telling voters they could go to the polls on Tuesday, December 10th – three days after a Senate runoff election was actually held.
- In 1998 in South Carolina, a state representative mailed 3,000 brochures to African American neighborhoods, claiming that law enforcement agents would be “working” the election, and warning voters that “this election is not worth going to jail.”
[edited to add] Oh, and don't forget about the widely documented manipulations of voter elibigility lists in Florida for BOTH the 2004 and 2000 elections!
You just can't find this level of vote suppression and/or manipulation on this scale perpetrated by Democrats. Are there small-time people attempting relatively trivial schemes? Yes. But almost all of the the larger efforts are by Republicans. |
notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 1947
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 11:54 am: |
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Lumpy, Face, take your time...
(I admit, I have the unfair advantage of being in a slow period at the office lately.)  |
Robert Livingston
Citizen
Username: Rob_livingston
Post Number: 765
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 11:58 am: |
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(Notehead: don't hold your breath. Face is right now searching the web for text to plagiarize and lumpy ran out of fat jokes...) |
lumpynose
Citizen
Username: Lumpyhead
Post Number: 1095
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 12:05 pm: |
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What legal action has been taken? None because it is completely unsubstantiated. A big fat lie. |
notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 1952
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 1:11 pm: |
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I honestly don't know what legal action has been taken in most of those instances, but most of them are matters of public record -- they don't need any additional events to become "real". And the voter registration list issue in FL has definitely gone to court.
But hey, thanks for setting yourself up: We now know that taking legal action legitimizes the claims made. So, the case against Bush that accuses him of actually conspiring and ordering the 9/11 attacks has more merit than many of us had realized. That's interesting to know. |
Michael Janay
Citizen
Username: Childprotect
Post Number: 1487
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 1:32 pm: |
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Ohio's challenge went to the Ohio supreme court which backed Blackwell. Only voters casting provisional ballotts in the correct counties will be counted. Hardly disenfranchisement. And the Paper issue was much ado about nothing. It was all settled long before the election.
The same went for Colorado. They followed the Ohio precedent, and counted only correctly cast ballotts.
What Voter outreach of America did was dispicable, but no more so than other GOTV groups (mostly Democratic) that registered dead people and TV characters.
Then of course it turns out that the "Vote Challengers" were there and caused no problem at all, nor did they witness any problems in the 04 election. Thats a good thing.
I fail to see why requiring ID and authenticating identity is anathema to Democrats... oh, I forgot, they wouldn't win if they couldn't cheat. |
lumpynose
Citizen
Username: Lumpyhead
Post Number: 1096
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 1:53 pm: |
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Notehead:
I guess I have to spell everything out for you. Let's see which cases are PROVEN to be true. Yes, I know this is not foolproof as in the OJ case but it's the best we have.
Making claims like Chicken Little to cause sensationalism without any proof is just what it is. Partisan politics.
The state of Washington seems to have it's own problems:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/206446_governor04.html
It seems Seattle has more votes than people registered to vote there. Dino is claiming 1700 "dead" people voted. We will see how this turns out. |
notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 1955
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 2:06 pm: |
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Sorry, I should have been more clear.
The Blackwell incident really happened.
The Davidson incident really happened.
The V.O.A. incident really happened.
The voter eligibility scam in FL really happened.
As for the other incidents, they were in the papers, but perhaps none of the reporters that picked up the stories bothered to verify anything.
Sorry, lumpy, you lost this one. |
lumpynose
Citizen
Username: Lumpyhead
Post Number: 1097
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 2:14 pm: |
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You are right Notehead. The Supreme Court is wrong. |
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 1982
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 2:17 pm: |
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lumpy:
I have to ask you, did you see anything wrong with people waiting in lines going around the block, some for as much as eight hours, to vote in the last election? |
lumpynose
Citizen
Username: Lumpyhead
Post Number: 1098
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 4:17 pm: |
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Poor planning. My friend waited 5 hours in a line in his housing complex in Pennsylvania. They were not prepared for all the people coming out. He and his wife voted for Bush. I voted in Maplewood and it took 5 minutes. |
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