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Mark Fuhrman
Citizen
Username: Mfpark
Post Number: 1189
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 1:43 pm: | 
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Surprised no one has commented yet on her major address softening her stance on abortion rights. There she goes......off and running. Sure to bring out the red-meat eating conservatives!
January 25, 2005
Clinton Seeking Shared Ground Over Abortions
By PATRICK D. HEALY
LBANY, Jan. 24 - Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton said on Monday that the opposing sides in the divisive debate over abortion should find "common ground" to prevent unwanted pregnancies and ultimately reduce abortions, which she called a "sad, even tragic choice to many, many women."
In a speech to about 1,000 abortion rights supporters near the New York State Capitol, Mrs. Clinton firmly restated her support for the Supreme Court's ruling in Roe v. Wade, which legalized abortion nationwide in 1973. But then she quickly shifted gears, offering warm words to opponents of legalized abortion and praising the influence of "religious and moral values" on delaying teenage girls from becoming sexually active.
"There is an opportunity for people of good faith to find common ground in this debate - we should be able to agree that we want every child born in this country to be wanted, cherished and loved," Mrs. Clinton said.
....
Mrs. Clinton's remarks were generally well received, though the audience was silent during most of her overtures to anti-abortion groups. Afterward, leaders of those groups were skeptical, given Mrs. Clinton's outspoken support for abortion rights over the years.
Mrs. Clinton, widely seen as a possible candidate for the Democratic Party's presidential nomination in 2008, appeared to be reaching out beyond traditional core Democrats who support abortion rights. She did so not by changing her political stands, but by underscoring her views in preventing unplanned pregnancies, promoting adoption, recognizing the influence of religion in abstinence and championing what she has long called "teenage celibacy."
She called on abortion rights advocates and anti-abortion campaigners to form a broad alliance to support sexual education - including abstinence counseling - family planning, and morning-after emergency contraception for victims of sexual assault as ways to reduce unintended pregnancies.
"We can all recognize that abortion in many ways represents a sad, even tragic choice to many, many women," Mrs. Clinton told the annual conference of the Family Planning Advocates of New York State. "The fact is that the best way to reduce the number of abortions is to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies in the first place."
Leading anti-abortion campaigners, in both New York and nationwide, pounced on Mrs. Clinton as a suspect spokeswoman for compromise and common ground.
"I think she's trying to adopt a values-oriented language, but it lacks substance, at least if you compare it to her record," said Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council in Washington. "If you look at Senator Clinton's voting record on this issue, it's like Planned Parenthood's condoms - it's defective."
....
"Our focus in the speech was to make sure that she still communicated that she was pro-choice - she doesn't want to undermine that - but she also thinks we can have some common ground among all sides and make abortion rare," Neera Tanden, legislative director for Mrs. Clinton, said in a telephone interview.
Before the election, Mrs. Clinton was a visible and public defender of abortion rights, appearing at a huge rally in Washington last spring and denouncing what she called Republican efforts to demonize the abortion rights movement.
And in her remarks, she seemed to acknowledge that this image of her was well known by anti-abortion campaigners while adding that, to her, it did not tell the full story about her views. "Yes, we do have deeply held differences of opinion about the issue of abortion and I, for one, respect those who believe with all their hearts and conscience that there are no circumstances under which any abortion should ever be available," Mrs. Clinton said, going on to assert that even some critics still support abortions in some cases, such as when the life of the mother is at risk.
The senator also made a nod to the values issue on Monday in praising faith-based and religious organizations for promoting abstinence.
"Research shows that the primary reason teenage girls abstain from early sexual activity is because of their religious and moral values," Mrs. Clinton said.
Mrs. Clinton made clear that she did not favor abstinence-only programs of sexual education.
"We should also recognize what works and what doesn't work and to be fair, the jury is still out on the effectiveness of abstinence-only programs," Mrs. Clinton said. "I don't think this debate should be about ideology - it should be about facts, and evidence. We have to deal with the choices that young people make, not just the choices we wish they would make."
Mrs. Clinton's remarks drew some gasps and head-shaking from those gathered here when she offered a string of statistics and data that, her aides said, were meant to show that preventing unwanted pregnancies could be a unifying issue for supporters and opponents of abortion rights.
Several audience members inhaled sharply, for instance, when Mrs. Clinton said that 7 percent of American women who do not use contraception make up 53 percent of all unintended pregnancies. She also cited research estimating that 15,000 abortions a year are by women who have been sexually assaulted, one of several reasons, she said, that morning-after emergency contraception should be made available over the counter.
After the speech, several members of the audience said they viewed Mrs. Clinton as a "hero" of the abortion rights movement, but also noted that her address seemed intended to reach more conservative and religious voters as well as perhaps in hopes of broadening her base of support for a possible 2008 run.
"I understood what Senator Clinton meant when she said abortion could be a sad and tragic choice, but we see women express relief more than anything else that they have the freedom to choose," said Martha Stahl, director for public relations and marketing for Northern Adirondack Planned Parenthood. "Mrs. Clinton really seemed to be reaching out here."
Christina Fitch, legislative director of the New York State Right to Life Committee, said: "She's talking about common sense, common ground, but we have yet to see her reach out her arms like a lot of other people have and support things like a partial-birth abortion ban. We want to see her extending olive branches on protecting life."
Mrs. Clinton supported a proposed ban on late-term abortions as long as it included an exception to protect the health of the mother; in turn, she has opposed such a ban when it lacked that exception. She has also supported some state parental notification laws under which a teenager must involve at least one parent in the decision - but only when there is an exception in the laws that allows the judge to bypass the law and let the teenager obtain an abortion on her own - a process known as "judicial bypass," which Mrs. Clinton has also supported before.
Mrs. Clinton also weaved several jabs at the Bush administration into her remarks, at one point saying that the White House had put the lives of many women and girls worldwide "at risk" by restricting abortion counseling services.
Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company |
sbenois
Citizen
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 13018
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 8:14 pm: |
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A Hillary run is another Democratic loss.
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Local_1_crew
Citizen
Username: Local_1_crew
Post Number: 368
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 8:31 pm: |
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vote libertarian!!! |
lumpynose
Citizen
Username: Lumpyhead
Post Number: 1093
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 8:31 pm: |
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They'll never learn it seems. |
Strawberry
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 4356
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 8:43 pm: |
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notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 1937
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 8:55 pm: |
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I sure don't want her. Does anybody, really? |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 638
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 3:41 am: |
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Folks, remember that even if she decides to run (which I actually doubt for 2008), she would have to win the Democratic nomination. I think there are enough sound-minded Democrats to realize that she in un-electable to a large part of the country, not just the "red staters."
And if that's who the Democrats put up against whoever the Republican candidate is, they deserve to lose. |
tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 2880
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 5:50 am: |
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Given a choice between Hillary and holding a lightning rod during a violent electrical storm, I think I'll take the latter. I am sure that polls would show that more Bush supporters want Hillary to run than do Democrats. |
Cynicalgirl
Citizen
Username: Cynicalgirl
Post Number: 1080
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 6:53 am: |
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I'm a Democrat, but I have never cared for Hillary and I still don't see why people were foolish enough to vote her into the senate. She would be the nail in the coffin for Democrats. If faced with Jeb v Hllary, well, I don't know what I'd do...write in Al Sharpton, mebbe... |
Mark Fuhrman
Citizen
Username: Mfpark
Post Number: 1192
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 7:57 am: |
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I agree with all the substantive posts--I think that regardless of her policy speeches or success/failure in the Senate, she is an iconic figure who will attract far more negatives than positives. And she just seems too hungry to win, to willing to find subtle nuances in her position so that everyone will like her (although that seemed to work for Bill).
Yet there she is, running, attracting huge attention and lots of money. Someone (besides cynical Repubs) is backing her. I know many people--mostly women, mostly New York City folks--who adore her because of her iconic status. I personally don't get it, but I was hoping someone would post to explain the attraction.
No matter how revered her husband, no matter how admired her position as a stong woman who can take a punch and come back, she will not get the nod--no way, no how. |
Strawberry
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 4359
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 9:13 am: |
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I find the Hilary bashing interesting. I too don't see how she can win but and this is a big BUT she has a •••• load of cash. And this is always a good thing for a candidate.
I really believe the tix in 08 will be Hill and Obama. I just don't see it being any other way.
And if you tell me Obama is a raw rookie and it's to soon, I say see Edwards. |
Sgt. Pepper
Citizen
Username: Jjkatz
Post Number: 584
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 9:50 am: |
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I think she could win the nomination easily, but the red states would never go for her. The anti-Clinton machine would be set into motion and she'd be destroyed in a general election.
I wonder how many people voted against Kerry because they didn't think Edwards had enough experience to assume the Presidency if necessary. And I wonder how many of those people voted for Bush/Quayle. |
Bobkat
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 7362
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 9:53 am: |
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.....or Bush at the top of the ticket in 2000 after a little more than one term as governor in a state with a very weak governor per their constitution. 
I think Hillary's speech is a pretty good indicator where the Dems are going to go on the abortion issue. To be honest, late term D&Cs make most people uncomfortable.
At least among young people abortion and teenage pregnacy seems to be coming less prevalent. Maybe high school sex education is working, and the better programs have a strong abstinance message, although I think that is sometimes like preaching to the choir. Those that want to will and those that don't won't.
I know this is the case in Texas. However, being Texas, the State School Board figured that if a little abstinance is good, a lot would be better. A few months ago they were working on an abstinance only sex ed curriculum. This put them in conflict with even some religious conservatives, such as the Southern Baptists who argued against it, on Fox news no less.
I have no idea how this turned out.
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Phenixrising
Citizen
Username: Phenixrising
Post Number: 348
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 10:10 am: |
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I am sure that polls would show that more Bush supporters want Hillary to run than do Democrats.
And I can see the rebirth of "Whitewater" all over again. Why give the Repugs something to entertain themselves with?
I think Hillary knows this and is not foolish to run in 2008.
No Hillary in 2008. |
Sgt. Pepper
Citizen
Username: Jjkatz
Post Number: 585
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 10:53 am: |
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Whitewater was a brilliant display by the Republicans. Let's see -- the Clintons invested in a real estate venture and lost a pile of money on it. Somehow this made them criminals. The best part of that "investigation" was the image of Al D'Amato heading up an ethics committee. ROFL!!! |
Phenixrising
Citizen
Username: Phenixrising
Post Number: 351
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 11:33 am: |
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The best part of that "investigation" was the image of Al D'Amato heading up an ethics committee. ROFL!!!
 And where is he now?
What a waste of taxpayers money. I wouldn't put it past the repugs to bring up Whitewater tho. |
Face
Citizen
Username: Face
Post Number: 503
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 2:28 pm: |
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Dear Abby:
My husband is a liar and a cheat. He has cheated on me from the very beginning, and when I confront him, he denies everything.
What's worse, everyone knows he cheats on me. It is so humiliating.
Also, he's been out of a job for the past five years and has not looked for a new one since.
All he does is smoke cigars, and cruise around with his pals, while
I have to work to pay the bills. Since our daughter went away to college, he does not even pretend to like me...and hints that I am
a lesbian. What should I do..?
Signed, Clueless in New York
Dear Clueless,
Grow up and dump him. For Pete's sake, you don't need him anymore...
You're a United States Senator from New York....Now act like one!
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themp
Citizen
Username: Themp
Post Number: 1387
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 2:34 pm: |
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"Also, he's been out of a job for the past five years and has not looked for a new one since."
You wish you could earn like Bill. |
Sgt. Pepper
Citizen
Username: Jjkatz
Post Number: 593
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 3:13 pm: |
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Dear Face:
That joke is older than Dick Cheney. |
Ukealalio
Citizen
Username: Ukealalio
Post Number: 1773
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 3:51 pm: |
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As Chico Marx used to say:
"Nah so funny". |
mtierney
Citizen
Username: Mtierney
Post Number: 738
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 5:03 pm: |
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What would Bill be called if Hillary won? First Gentleman?
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Strawberry
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 4373
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 9:31 am: |
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anon
Citizen
Username: Anon
Post Number: 1626
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 9:53 pm: |
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So, did any of you folks think she would be elected Senator? |
Bobkat
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 7394
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 8:28 am: |
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Yes, when Rudy G. had to withdraw. Now that would have been a horse race. |
Strawberry
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 4379
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 9:28 am: |
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I knew Hillary would win since New Yorkers as a general rule are pretty naive.I'm also quite confident she will be the candidate in 2008. |
Sgt. Pepper
Citizen
Username: Jjkatz
Post Number: 600
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 10:56 am: |
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It didn't hurt that her opponent (after Rudy dropped out) was a weenie and a liar. Remember that debate stunt when he tried to get her to sign a pledge not to use soft money in the campaign? After the debate was over they did agree to it. Guess which one of them broke the pledge less than a week later. Hint: It wasn't Hillary. |
notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 1962
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 10:57 am: |
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Yes, New Yorkers are generally pretty naive. Which is why the city is one of the foremost financial, commercial, and cultural engines in the world. Superb insight. |
Strawberry
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 4382
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 11:15 am: |
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Poor Notey,
He has the New York is half the nation outlook.
Also, Folks from all over the world come to New York City to work. You do realize nearly half of all current New York City residents come from elsewhere?
you crack me up... |
Ukealalio
Citizen
Username: Ukealalio
Post Number: 1780
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 11:59 am: |
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I heard Straw is going to be staring in the re-make of Deliverance. You know, the story of REAL Americans. |
Strawberry
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 4386
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 12:05 pm: |
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holy stupidity. |
Sgt. Pepper
Citizen
Username: Jjkatz
Post Number: 603
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 1:07 pm: |
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C'mon, Ukealalio, who hasn't used the expression, "Did that guy just get off the turnip truck from New York City or something?"
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