| Author |
Message |
    
Robert Livingston
Citizen
Username: Rob_livingston
Post Number: 786
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 3:40 pm: | 
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Man, Straw, that's a new low even for you... |
Ukealalio
Citizen
Username: Ukealalio
Post Number: 1781
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 3:58 pm: |
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Yea, as Kinky Friedman (possible future Gov. of Texas) say's: That's so low he needs a ladder just to scratch his a**.
Actually it's just as low as his comment about John Edwards taking advantage of his wife's breast cancer.
And he calls himself a true American. Thank him and his ilk for the Ugly American saying. |
Strawberry
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 4390
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 4:00 pm: |
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boring |
Robert Livingston
Citizen
Username: Rob_livingston
Post Number: 787
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 4:05 pm: |
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You think it's boring to go around calling people's grandparents Nazis and Jew killers? And to make jokes about concentration camps? It's something all right, but I'm not sure it's boring. |
Strawberry
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 4391
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 4:12 pm: |
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boring |
Madden 11
Citizen
Username: Madden_11
Post Number: 617
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 4:48 pm: |
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Don't blame Strawberry...his grandparents were inbred. |
Michael Janay
Citizen
Username: Childprotect
Post Number: 1509
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 7:47 pm: |
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After WW1 and Prior to the Nazi's (you know, the NAtional Socialists) being voted in and then siezing power, Germany was peaceful. In fact Nazi generals were ready to surrender to even the slightest French resistance when they invaded rhineland (was it, I can't remember right now). But the French were spineless and non confrontational which gave the Germans a feeling of invulnerability.
Maybe I misunderstood what you were trying to say, but Germany having the bombs (and the arrogance) was the Socialists doing. |
tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 2889
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 9:00 pm: |
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MJ,
That's true. I think the more interesting situation is that of Germany before WW I. At that time, Germany was quite powerful, but were unable to translate their power into influence commensurate with their power. The Germans couldn't understand why nobody liked them and their reaction to being disliked was to do things that increased their neighbors suspicions - more ships, more soldiers, etc.
So today, we are wondering why the whole world is not on board with us with regard to Iraq. To me, this is disturbingly similar to the Germans of Wilhelmine Germany who didn't quite "get" the rest of the world. |
Southerner
Citizen
Username: Southerner
Post Number: 68
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 12:31 am: |
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Why am I not worried. Easy, the U.S. doesn't make as many mistakes as the rest of the world. It's not that we do things perfectly but the rest of the world is highly incompetent. I travel extensively and see this first hand. We've been a nation for only 230 years and have our house in order leaps and bounds ahead of everyone else. Europe and Asia have been around far longer and still can't get their act together. Does anyone really expect this European Union to last? That situation is just a time bomb waiting to go off. While those guys are buddy buddy these days that won't last. Their small country ego's will eventually shine through and they will begin bickering among themselves and then we'll have to step in and referee yet again. India, China, Japan? Please. They can't even get clean drinking water to their own people let alone make the U.S. a second fiddle economy. The U.S. is far from perfect but our system is so far superior to anyone else's that I'm not concerned. |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 4570
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 8:38 am: |
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Nations and economies that lack the ability to feed themselves (UK, Russia, Japan, and now emerging economies like Asia, etc.) have never been able to maintain a position of power. Outsourced call centers and putting chips in computers doesn't pan out in the long run when most of the food and refined oil has to be imported.
A big reason why the US environment and agricultural capabilities may end up being so critical in the days ahead.
Also, infrastructure and organization for distribution. We are leaps and bounds ahead of most nations.
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tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 2890
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 9:18 am: |
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I don't think that's right. The UK lost power on a relative scale. The were the first to industrialize, but as other nations industralized (U.S., Germany, etc.), the UK's relative power declined. The only reason Russia has not been a consistent great power is that they have yet to establish a good government with a consistent rule of law. If Russia can change that, we can expect great things from that country. Moreover, the fact that Russia can't feed itself is on of the many dismal failures of communism. That too may be changing. Japan would be more of a power today had she not overreached in the 1930s. So today, Japan is a powerful economy without a military force.
In fact, if Europe had avoided the world wars and Japan had avoided the Pacific War, the world today would be hugely different. We would be very strong economically, but we probably wouldn't be "the Superpower". Germany might have been the first to put a man on the moon.
We have many advantages that other nations lack, but our relative margin of strength versus other nations will continue to decrease.
None of this means that we need to fear the future, but we do need to change the way we deal with other nations or we risk isolating ourselves. |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 4575
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 9:26 am: |
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tjohn,
It's not wrong either. China is going in the right direction to improve and balance quality of life (weed out the propoganda - they still have major rural problems and can't compete with large American farms)
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:ZJZawO0XCzkJ:www.chinese-embassy.org.uk/eng /jjmy/t27097.htm+china%27s+agriculture&hl=en |
tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 2891
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 10:01 am: |
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It's a relative thing. In 1945, Europe was in ruins from their second fratricidal war of the 20th Century. Look where they are now.
Seventy years ago, China was under the Japanese boot and wracked by civil war. Look where China is now. China faces huge challenges. There is no doubt about that, but to write them off on the basis of current problems is a mistake. |
Dave
Moderator
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5118
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 11:15 am: |
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Only 35 years ago China was in it's Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution. Only 20 years ago it's leaders opened special economic zones in Shenzhen and let mini market economies open. Only two years ago it had its first peaceful transition (ie. no political turmoil or violence) in leadership in... thousands of years? 2004 GDP was 9.5% with low inflation. Enviable. |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 4579
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 11:37 am: |
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Nobody's writing China off. They've been a big payer on and off for centuries. Would't want to live there though. |
ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 3288
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 5:44 pm: |
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. |
Innisowen
Citizen
Username: Innisowen
Post Number: 355
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 11:43 pm: |
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Oh, yawn... our tremendous national debt has central bankers (including our own) quite skittish.
Most economists state candidly that the EU is here to stay, with a powerful and well-educated population, and the union is adding countries as we speak. When's the last time we added a state? European students seem to outshine ours in science and math, and our standing in these subjects keeps diminishing and with it, our ability to continue to be innovative in technology and science.
China is widely regarded as having the lock on economic growth---it's already vying with us for the world's oil and the world's steel.
India has been building a technology capability that is quite often stronger and certainly cheaper than ours, and has been successful in luring away a great number of our "knowledge worker" jobs in IT, financial analysis, etc.
We are the superpower now, but the curse is that we seem to define that in military terms. We are failing to invest in the kind of infrastructures (education, usable skill development, universal health care) that will keep us at the top and as the envy of the world. The future for this country is more scary than rosy, in my opinion. |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 4582
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 8:25 am: |
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This is a bit of thread drift, but to Innsowen's point the value of education in this country is a big reason for this...my friends and associates who grew up outside the US are amazed at how indulgent or apathetic or completely disinterested parents can be about all levels of discipline, and about our emphasis on toys and instant gratification here, and this is reflected in our struggling school systems. My father was a strict disciplinarian about school, I was petrified if I didn't get all A's (I see this outside the US as well), while many parents here are grateful that their kids even get up in the morning, or in inner cities they are strung out by poverty or drugs. Ooops - I sound like my Dad,  but are parents fiddling while Rome burns?
Sorry for the thread drift. |
Southerner
Citizen
Username: Southerner
Post Number: 70
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 1:01 pm: |
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Inno,
What historic precedent have you seen that suggests that the EU will last? I'm simply looking back at history (centuries and centuries). These guys get along for awhile and then they start killing each other again. I really don't see Germany and France being buddy buddy for the long term. They probably won't go to war any time soon but the EU sure doesn't worry me. Our system isn't perfect, but I can't imagine any states trying to pull out of the U.S. It is real easy to see countries start pulling away from the EU when their ideas don't prevail. I'll give them credit for giving it a go as they realize a unified economic European Union is needed to compete with the U.S. but the difference is we have a singular government while they have many governments which can only lead to a bad result down the road. |
Innisowen
Citizen
Username: Innisowen
Post Number: 358
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 2:42 pm: |
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Southerner,
Very few historical precedents for EU success, I agree, but look at current reality: Irish citizens in the EU take jobs and live in Germany. Danish citizens of the EU take jobs and live in France. Belgian citizens of the EU take jobs in Scotland. The amount of cross-border commerce and movement in the EU is in fact historically UNprecedented--- which is why I believe the EU has life in it. Educational system barriers between the EU countries are also being eliminated. An "abitur" from a German school is accepted without question in the Netherlands. A baccalaureat from a French lycee is likewise accepted for admission to a Scottish university. As recently as the 1970's, none of that was the case.
You say you "can't imagine any states trying to pull out of the US," and you're probably right.
US States were, with the brief exception of Texas, never sovereign nations. All European countries have been and still are so. But, if you remember your school history books, I believe that a number of US States did in fact pull out of the Union to set up their own country: it was called the Confederacy, and it caused something called a) The Civil War, and b) The War between the States, depending on where you grew up in this country. |
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