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buzzsaw
Citizen
Username: Buzzsaw
Post Number: 1587
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 10:30 am: | 
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Are they really looking to increase fares by 15% this summer?
Wow. They really don't handle the cold well. Once again no trains into Penn. Though maybe we were just getting prefered treatment from AMTRAK.
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joeltfk
Citizen
Username: Joeltfk
Post Number: 69
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 10:37 am: |
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January has seen more delays and cancellations by NJ Transit than usual. In the morning I've been more delayed than not. They should really send us partial refund checks like they did some years ago. I know it's a tough job, but echoing what other say onboard not quite as politely, if any major corporation were run with the efficiency of NJ Transit, they'd be out of business or completely restructured by now. |
buzzsaw
Citizen
Username: Buzzsaw
Post Number: 1588
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 10:50 am: |
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And they're asking for a raise. |
dave23
Citizen
Username: Dave23
Post Number: 167
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 10:57 am: |
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From what I understand, the recent delays have been because of Amtrak. |
akb
Citizen
Username: Akb
Post Number: 256
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 11:01 am: |
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Fine, but NJT has some kind of contractual relationship with Amtrak. Blaming Amtrak is convenient but doesn't resolve the NJT responsibility to its customers. If Amtrak really is causing the problems (and who is to know) then NJT should have some comeback against Amtrak. |
Mark Fuhrman
Citizen
Username: Mfpark
Post Number: 1211
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 11:27 am: |
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What would the comeback be--we won't use Penn Station anymore? We'll sue you and the bondholders (all of which are insolvent to some degree) for breach of contract? Even if the contract says Amtrak gets primary use of the tracks?
The problem is there is no alternative, other than going back to having only Hoboken. If a new tube were built (at cost of something like $10 billion) and if the new Penn Station were built with berths reserved for NJT, that might solve some of the problems. But that is not going to happen anytime soon. |
Walker
Citizen
Username: Fester
Post Number: 60
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 11:32 am: |
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The Midtown Direct Trains are always the first set of trains bumped when AmCrap have problems because we can go through Hoboken.
Compaired to the MTA NJT rocks. |
ril
Citizen
Username: Ril
Post Number: 279
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 11:38 am: |
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Though today's problems were announced as being on the Corridor and Coast Line trains, my co-workers on those lines made it to work pretty much on time. Me: more than an hour late, after waiting for nearly 45 minutes on the platform in SO, with not a single announcement about what was going on. In fact, I've been delayed every day this week because of train problems.
Problems due to weather and other emergencies are inevitable, but why can't NJT simply provide some information? (and why are the PATH employees such inconsiderate jerks?) Sorry, just venting.... |
buzzsaw
Citizen
Username: Buzzsaw
Post Number: 1589
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 11:39 am: |
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A coach and wagon would be better than NJT. And they wouldn't ask for a 15% raise. |
LilLB
Citizen
Username: Lillb
Post Number: 380
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 11:42 am: |
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As much as I don't like a fare increase (in fact, I hate it), this is still the cheapest commute I've had. When I used to commute on MTA to Westchester and also to Connecticut, it was twice as much as I pay now (although a slightly longer commute than maplewood) - and that was 10-15 years ago. |
notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 1964
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 11:47 am: |
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What I keep asking myself (naively) is: hasn't it been cold and snowy EVERY frikkin' year since the train lines went into service? So why does it STILL cause such impact? |
Mark Fuhrman
Citizen
Username: Mfpark
Post Number: 1214
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 11:49 am: |
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Amtrak has been ahead of the curve--their equipment anticipates global warming. The cold weather protection was left off the last bid spec. |
Jericho
Citizen
Username: Jericho
Post Number: 27
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 12:02 pm: |
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I came on to post a gripe about NJ transit, only to find y'all are well underway. I have nothing insightful to say except are we in the f---ing first world or not? Every year around this time it becomes, you guessed it, WINTER! and we have snow and ice. Can someone pass this bulletin out to NJT so they can prepare for next Winter. Can we do a study on how much work time and home time we lose because these people can't run a train line (where's Mussolini?). Seriously though, I'm up for collective action, fare strike, picketing the owner's house, something? Sign me up, I want to be on the barricades! |
buzzsaw
Citizen
Username: Buzzsaw
Post Number: 1590
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 12:12 pm: |
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There is a public meeting about the fare increase set for Summer. Proposed 13%.
February 22, 2005-5:30 PM to 8:30 PM
Summit City Hall
Council Chambers/Courtroom
512 Springfield Avenue
Summit, New Jersey
I will be there asking what they plan to do about the toxic smells that come from the trains when they pull in. Not so bad when it's below freezing - but when it's above freezing: EEEK.
And remember NJT has a permit to dump human waste on the tracks.
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Bobkat
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 7401
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 12:17 pm: |
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Jericho, since NJTransit is publicly owned you are one of the owners. Me and the other 14 guys in the Maplewood Pagan chapter will be picketing outside your home on our Hogs when you get there this evening. 
While this has certainly been the week from Hell for MTD commuters (and not much better for us Hoboken pukes), the thing that gets me upset is the lack of announcements. On a nice summer morning they will announce a five minute delay. However, this week I don't think I have heard the PA once with the dreaded words of, "attention Maplewood passengers.....".
Amtrak "owns" the North East corridor line. They, and only they, control access. Because MTD has an alternative destination, MTD usually ends up on the short end of the stick when things go bad.
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Jericho
Citizen
Username: Jericho
Post Number: 28
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 12:29 pm: |
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Bobkat - figured as much on the ownership thing, but there has to be a President or someone we could harass. Althogh I am sure there are many good reasons why NJT can't be responsible for all these problems, it seems to me that we should not let them off the hook too easy. As far as coming over to my place tonight, bring the pizza and I'll have the beer. |
thegoodsgt
Citizen
Username: Thegoodsgt
Post Number: 740
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 1:54 pm: |
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From what we know about the delays, they're usually caused by switch problems. I wonder how much the cost of tickets would increase if NJT bought hundreds of these?
http://www.rtands.com/may00/switch_heaters.html
At least we'd get to work on time!
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Joan
Supporter
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 4835
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 8:09 pm: |
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This week's delays have mostly been due to problems with the overhead electric wires that power the trains. |
Michael Janay
Citizen
Username: Childprotect
Post Number: 1511
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 8:24 pm: |
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The fricking C train runs on switches and relays built in 1920. Do you really think NJT is more up to date? |
alison mccoll
Citizen
Username: Alikoz
Post Number: 71
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 9:26 pm: |
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The commute sucks lately, but I've grown to expect the delays. Frankly, what I truly find annoying is the constant "Sorry folks, this is not our fault, it's Amtrak's." Imagine if we all went to our bosses on the date of a deadline and said, "Sorry Boss, not my fault I don't have that report, blame Bob in the IT dept. My computer is broken and he hasn't fixed it yet."
For whatever reason, "passing the buck" as they so often do really irks me. Perhaps Amtrak owns the tracks that keep freezing, but let's face it, we're not riding Amtrak. We're riding (and paying) NJT!!
Am I the only one bothered by this? |
Bobkat
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 7405
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 6:42 am: |
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Michael, actually the Morris and Essex and Gladstone lines are quite modern. In the early 1980s they were rebuilt and converted to AC power. Prior to that time the line ran on DC power and the rolling stock dated from the early 1930s. Many of the cars actually had the original wicker seats. No AC in the summer, but they were overheated in the winter. However, my recollection is that service was quite reliable, or that may just be the nostaglia kicking in.
Ken, oh Ken, can you post a picture of the old MU cars for Michael?
Bob Grassmere, a former Maplewood mayor, was one of the champions of the "Kearney Connection" that made MTD service a reality. I don't know what maintenance issues, especially defered maintance, AMTRAK has. However, our MTD service and the more recent MTD service from Montclair has put a strain on the capacity of both Penn Station and the tracks. AMTRAK controls access to the northeast corridor line and, as I posted before, our MTD service is usually the first to be diverted when there is a problem because Hoboken is a reasonable alternative. The answer is to increase capacity, but that is, I believe I have read, a $10 billion investment.
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parkah
Citizen
Username: Parkah
Post Number: 91
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 6:52 am: |
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nope alison... it seems you're preaching to the choir here.
i lived in chicago for many years... where it's much colder and much snowier... and never experienced the problems of train delays/cancellations/re-routing that i have here. not sure if it's because chicago runs diesel trains while trains here are electric? if the equipment is newer? or if they're just keyed in on the fact that 6 months out of the year it's winter. njtransit seems to be surprised by this seasonal change every year. |
Bobkat
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 7406
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 6:58 am: |
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Other than from a traction point of view because they don't carry sanding equiptment the pure electric trains are more reliable than the newer diesel/electric trains used primarily on MTD. Also, I believe the engines can take power from the overhead lines, as well as from their own diesel engines and generators. |
Copperfield
Citizen
Username: Copperfield
Post Number: 113
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 11:27 pm: |
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Unfortunately, Bobkat is 100% right- NJT is completely at the mercy of Amtrack and there is no other option.
They control access into Penn Station, and from what I read, NJT finds them every bit as irritating and difficult to work with. Their trains are constantly delayed and NJT has to let them use the tracks first, regardless. And they never let NJT know what's going on, so it's hard to plan.
Not to sound like an apologist, but they really do get a raw deal. |
vor
Citizen
Username: Vor
Post Number: 367
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 9:20 am: |
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I wonder how many people who are "enraged" about the "bad" service from NJT lived here before there was a midtown direct. Just wondering. |
Amie Brockway-Metcalf
Citizen
Username: Amie
Post Number: 151
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 10:16 am: |
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Vor, I wonder how many of the people like myself who are "enraged" over the "bad" service were drawn to this town BECAUSE of Midtown Direct. Between the awful train service and dearth of quality child care, if I'd know then what I know now, I might have staying in New York. |
Amie Brockway-Metcalf
Citizen
Username: Amie
Post Number: 152
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 10:16 am: |
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Vor, I wonder how many of the people like myself who are "enraged" over the "bad" service were drawn to this town BECAUSE of Midtown Direct. Between the awful train service and dearth of quality child care, if I'd know then what I know now, I might have stayed in New York. |
cmontyburns
Citizen
Username: Cmontyburns
Post Number: 660
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 10:58 am: |
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When I lived in Chicago, everyone bitched about the trains, especially in the winter. When I lived in New York, everyone bitched about the trains, especially, well, always. Now I live in NJ, and everyone bitches about the trains. I don't think NJ Transit has a monopoly on incompetence when it comes to running a transit system.
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Chris Prenovost
Citizen
Username: Chris_prenovost
Post Number: 304
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 11:51 am: |
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Compared to other commuter railroads, NJT is pretty good.
And as far as the fare increase goes, odd how everyone is complaining about a 13 - 15% fare increase that is only the second time NJT has raised fares in the last fifteen years. But when the town bureaucrats and educrats raise our property taxes by nearly that much every year, year in and year out, people just put up with it.
I only wish my property taxes were going up at the same rate that my NJT fares are. |
algebra2
Supporter
Username: Algebra2
Post Number: 2923
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 12:07 pm: |
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My parents commute on Amtrak (RI to Boston) everyday. So I asked them how their commute was last week. Maybe while we were getting such sucky service they were commuting like kings? Their train home was canceled Mon, Tues, Wed, and Thurs ... they were actually thrilled that they had to take a 3:30 train home every night. |
vor
Citizen
Username: Vor
Post Number: 369
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 12:30 pm: |
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Amie
The reason I ask is because I find that people who use a service (any service) for the first time after improvements have been made seem to be more critical of that service then those that remember when the service was really bad, or in the case of MTD, when there was no service at all (which was not that long ago).
Again, just an observation |
Amie Brockway-Metcalf
Citizen
Username: Amie
Post Number: 153
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 12:36 pm: |
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I understand. But when I lived in Westchester and took Metro North, over four years I was only more than 10 minutes late less than five times. The town and the realtors use the MTD as a selling point ("30 minutes from midtown!!!") and we have been really disappointed in the service, no matter whose fault it is. |
Spare_o
Citizen
Username: Spare_o
Post Number: 185
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 12:38 pm: |
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I used to make a reverse commute from Hoboken to Ramsey on NJT. Did it for about 1.5 years. I can count on one hand (with a couple of fingers left over) the number of times that I was late. Couldn't say that about NJT's performance last week. The difference, as far as I know, is that NJT runs diesel on the Main Line and doesn't have Amtrak to deal with. My bet is that the good performance was due to the absence of Amtrak in the equation although I'm just guessing.
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