For safer roads, take down the signs ... Log Out | Lost Password? | Topics | Search
Contact | Register | My Profile | SO home | MOL home

M-SO Message Board » 2005 Attic » Soapbox » Archive through February 12, 2005 » For safer roads, take down the signs and signals « Previous Next »

  Thread Originator Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post
  ClosedClosed: New threads not accepted on this page          

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Dave
Moderator
Username: Dave

Post Number: 5119
Registered: 4-1998


Posted on Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 1:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

when drivers stop looking at signs and start looking at other people, that driving becomes safer.




http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/01/21/news/profile.html
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

johnny
Citizen
Username: Johnny

Post Number: 1180
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 2:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

those pesky stop signs, such a distraction.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bill P
Citizen
Username: Mrincredible

Post Number: 5
Registered: 1-2005


Posted on Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 4:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It might work here if we weren't driving around in overpowered tanks at 40 mph on local streets (which tells me people aren't looking at the signs). In Europe they tend to drive little lunchboxes that generally bounce off the pedestrians they hit.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Analog01
Citizen
Username: Analog01

Post Number: 29
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 1:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Teach people: what a 4-way stop sign means and how to determine right-of-way; What to do at blinking red and blinking yellow lights; how to use turn signals correctly; how to use the 4-way blinkers when they are pulled off to the side of the road...I could go on
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Dave
Moderator
Username: Dave

Post Number: 5123
Registered: 4-1998


Posted on Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 1:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Teaching formal rules turns out to be exactly the opposite of what works best.


quote:

'Naked streets': Sounds crazy but might just work
Entire towns in Europe have no traffic lights or signs, and they've never been safer


Imagine, for a moment, a busy downtown intersection with no traffic lights, signs or sidewalks.

There are no markers on the ground, no speed bumps, no police officer conducting the flow of vehicles. There's not even a curb. Every element of traffic — pedestrians, bikers and drivers — is left to fend for itself.

Sounds like a recipe for chaos, right?

Wrong.

The implementation in a number of European communities of what some have dubbed ``naked streets'' has been hugely successful.

Urban planners in Holland, Germany and Denmark have experimented with this free-for-all approach to traffic management and have found it is safer than the traditional model, lowers trip times for drivers and is a boost for the businesses lining the roadway.

The idea is that by removing traffic lights, signage and sidewalks, drivers and pedestrians are forced to interact, make eye contact and adapt to the traffic instead of relying blindly on whether that little dot on the horizon is red or green.

Planners have found that without the conventional rules and regulations of the road in place, drivers tend to slow down, open their eyes to their environment and develop a "feel" for their surroundings.

In effect, every person using the street, be it an SUV owner or a kid with a wagon, becomes equal.

"You think this must be chaos, this must be dangerous, but then you watch it and use it for a while and realize that no, it's not," says traffic engineer Ben Hamilton-Baillie over the phone from London, England. "People are perfectly capable of manoeuvring around each other in the same way they are when they walk down the street."

Hamilton-Baillie has been working with the Borough of Kensington-Chelsea in London to develop a plan whereby the naked-street approach to traffic will be applied to Exhibition Rd., a busy stretch that features some of the city's most notable museums. Hamilton-Baillie says Kensington-Chelsea is just one of 20 districts in England that are seriously considering implementing the plan.

It makes sense, considering how well the plan has worked in other communities. About a year and a half ago, politicians in Drachten, Holland, a city of 55,000, stripped a crowded intersection to its pavement.

Planners built a grassy roundabout in the centre of the intersection for traffic to flow around and eliminated all signage and traffic lighting. The height of the curb separating the sidewalk and the road was reduced to an inch, becoming hardly perceptible.

Since then, only one collision has been recorded at the intersection: a light fender-bender.

"The traffic flow became much more fluent, and there are fewer queues," says Hans Monderman, a leading traffic engineer who helped draw up the plan. "The behaviour is negotiated through eye contact; traffic flows smoothly, and it looks nicer. And there have been no injuries yet at all."

Four years ago, a similar approach was taken in Christiansfeld, Denmark, at a high-traffic intersection that was plagued with traffic jams and pedestrian-related accidents. Since then, the number of fatal accidents has dropped from 3 per year to zero.

Positive reports have also emerged from a district in West Palm Beach, Fla., which recently adopted a similar plan.

The timing is good for this new way of thinking. The World Health Organization (WHO) recently projected that traffic incidents will become the third-leading cause of injury and disease globally by 2020 if the traditional approach to road safety goes unchanged.

Part of the thinking behind the new approach is that it encourages drivers to focus not on lights and signage but on what's happening around them, and to adjust their driving style accordingly. If the driver can clearly see that he or she is in a food market or club district, then it makes sense to slow down.








Toronto Star
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Joan
Supporter
Username: Joancrystal

Post Number: 4850
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 1:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bill:

People are looking at the signs. They just aren't following what the signs say.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Innisowen
Citizen
Username: Innisowen

Post Number: 357
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 2:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Two things: In South Orange and Maplewood, the traffic authorities could well begin by cutting back bushes and brances that obscure signs around town. Secondly, in Ireland and the UK people use round-abouts very successfully both to change direction and to cut down the speed that people would attain in their cars if a street or road went straight through. I've never seen an accident in a round-about, even with foreign tourists who forget themselves and drive on the wrong side of the round-about. We could use something similar here.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

johnny
Citizen
Username: Johnny

Post Number: 1181
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 3:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

With the way people drive through Maplewood, it is just a matter of time before either a driver or pedestrian is killed.

Even the police speed excessively.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Analog01
Citizen
Username: Analog01

Post Number: 30
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 5:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dave, I might be pursuaded to believe what you cut& pasted, if SO/Mplwd had a plethora of signs and lights at every intersection. But there are quite a few 4-way stops that only have stop signs, and the infamous intersection of Maplewood Ave & Jefferson has a simple blinking red & yellow traffic light. This is about as simple as it gets, yet the confusion that surrounds that intersection is amazing.

Perhaps drivers in those Euorpean countries slow down because without signage, they have no idea where they are going.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Soda
Supporter
Username: Soda

Post Number: 2450
Registered: 5-2001


Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 10:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In The City Of The Future, automobiles will be made out of rubber, and accidents will be FUN!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider

Post Number: 5297
Registered: 1-2003


Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 4:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just because it works there doesn't mean it would work here. The attitude, despite the rhetoric, is that driving is a right, not a privilege. The tests are made as easy as possible so any idiot can pass them. If there were any rigor, people would object and have it removed. I understand it's normal to fail at least a few times in Europe. The idea is that if you go through some difficulty at first, you may have an attitude that this is a serious responsibility. Obtaining a license here is so easy that there is no incentive to improve on your attitude after obtaining your license.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Dave
Moderator
Username: Dave

Post Number: 5239
Registered: 4-1998


Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 10:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interestingly, it appears Disney's new community, Celebration, has very few signs or signals....
http://slate.msn.com/id/2113107/slideshow/2113258/fs/0//entry/2113259/
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Dave
Moderator
Username: Dave

Post Number: 5241
Registered: 4-1998


Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 10:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

drift
Local connection: the guy who took those photos wrote a biography of Frederick Law Olmstead

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0684824639/qid=1108093794/sr=8-5/r ef=pd_bbs_5/102-6604267-0932911?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

themp
Supporter
Username: Themp

Post Number: 1460
Registered: 12-2001
Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 2:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They have started getting rid of traffic circles in jersey and replacing them with big, giant intersections. I think it's a mistake. I always liked merging into a big circle for this very reason - everyone is alert and has their eyes open, and things keep moving.

Topics | Last Day | Last Week | Tree View | Search | User List | Help/Instructions | Credits Administration