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gemini
Citizen
Username: Gemini
Post Number: 365
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Friday, February 4, 2005 - 4:07 pm: | 
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Tom your story reminds me of when I was a passenger with my brother driving; a guy in a corvette cut us off and I gave him the finger. He chased us down for like 2 miles (all the while my brother swearing at me) and pulled up right next to me (I was having a heart attack by now) and said "don't ever do that to me again" I must have been looking like a ghost b/c he drove away. I never did that again. |
Joan
Supporter
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 4882
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, February 4, 2005 - 4:54 pm: |
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Neen:
I have been walking to and from the train station just about every weekday (vacations and holidays excepted)for close to twenty-five years now. Like you, I generally have to pass through three crosswalks to get to my destination (including the dreaded crosswalk at the corner of Oakview and Valley).
In all that time, I have seen very few drivers, including those who could stop their vehicle safely, yield to me in the crosswalk.
I have seen scary things: drivers speeding up to try and make it through the intersection before I get to their point in the road who must be oblivious to the fact that while they can see me, the cars tail-gating behind them which are matching them for speed can't; drivers who will pass a vehcile which has stopped to let me cross in the crosswalk and nearly hit me as they pass; drivers so intent on making the turn from Oakview to Valley that they speed into their turn without even noticing that the Valley Street traffic stopped to let a pedestrian cross in the cross walk.
Being a pedestrian in SO/M is not for the faint of heart. Even though you legally have the right of way in a crosswalk, it is often safer to wait on the sidewalk until every conceivable vehicle has passed through before setting out to cross the street. |
johnny
Citizen
Username: Johnny
Post Number: 1185
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, February 5, 2005 - 11:42 pm: |
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I've said it on other threads, and I'll say it here.
It is only a matter of time before someone is killed in out town due to crazy drivers.
Increased enforcement would be a nice start. |
Mustt_mustt
Citizen
Username: Mustt_mustt
Post Number: 266
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, February 6, 2005 - 12:02 am: |
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I always stop for pedestrians. As a grad student at UMass, I often saw campus security impose hefty fines on those who did not stop at crosswalks for pedestrians. Instead of cribbing at fellow drivers who drive rashly or those pedestrians who cross roads at will and wherever, i've decided it is much better to be a defensive driver. Drivers not stopping for pedestrians or at STOP signs....oh well, that's NJ for you. |
steel
Citizen
Username: Steel
Post Number: 630
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 6, 2005 - 9:43 am: |
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This is Jersey. There is a driving culture that exists here which has existed for decades, will continue to exist and is not going to be slowed down or changed by any lone pedestrians bravely striding into a crosswalk against oncoming engines. That is a simple fact which deserves recogition for those who wish to remain physically and mentally healthy in such encounters. Ask yourself, -Do I want to be right, (and daily irritated), according to the letter of the law or would I rather stay out of the hospital?
Our little village is a rare, rare island of exception that only exists as such because there are no lights and people are already going slow looking for parking.
When I'm in a crosswalk I'm looking to get to the other side and not looking to change the driving habits of millions of Jersey drivers using my breakable little body to make a point. |
nova87
Citizen
Username: Nova87
Post Number: 295
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, February 6, 2005 - 10:47 am: |
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I'm sorry but is the law to yield to pedestrians in the crosswalk or are you to yield to people waiting on the sidewalk to cross? |
Joan
Supporter
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 4890
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, February 6, 2005 - 11:30 am: |
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Most of the streets in our two towns are two way streets with traffic moving in both directions. The drivers who really annoy me are the ones who see a pedestrian in a cross walk make it successfully through one lane of traffic and then fail to yield (even though they can safely do so) so the pedestrian can make it safely all the way across. These drivers are definitely in violation of the State law as well as being in violation of the kind of (un?)common courtesy we should all display whenever possible. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 5363
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, February 6, 2005 - 12:24 pm: |
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nova87, I don't know the exact wording of the law, but to me, it seems that if a pedestrian is waiting to enter the crosswalk, it is his right to step into it, putting the burden on motorists to stop for him/her. If that were not the case, then the pedestrian would effectively have no right to be yielded to. Of course, it is not safe or considerate or probably even legal to expect a car which is six inches from the crosswalk to stop in time. But we're not talking about that. We're talking about cars that can and should stop in time.
I even get sad or a little angry when I see people waiting to cross, not making any gestures to indicate that they'd like to cross. They clearly have no hope of any courtesy afforded to them.
steel, you are right that it is foolish to think any person or even small group could change the behavior of the masses, though for some reason, it doesn't satisfy me to end the discussion. |
ashear
Supporter
Username: Ashear
Post Number: 1673
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, February 6, 2005 - 2:20 pm: |
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The driver of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way to a pedestrian crossing the roadway within a marked crosswalk or within any unmarked crosswalk at an intersection, except at crosswalks when the movement of traffic is being regulated by police officers or traffic control signals, or where otherwise prohibited by municipal, county, or State regulation, and except where a pedestrian tunnel or overhead pedestrian crossing has been provided, but no pedestrian shall suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and walk or run into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to yield. Nothing contained herein shall relieve a pedestrian from using due care for his safety.
Whenever any vehicle is stopped to permit a pedestrian to cross the roadway, the driver of any other vehicle approaching from the rear shall not overtake and pass such stopped vehicle.
Every pedestrian upon a roadway at any point other than within a marked crosswalk or within an unmarked crosswalk at an intersection shall yield the right-of-way to all vehicles upon the roadway.
Nothing contained herein shall relieve a driver from the duty to exercise due care for the safety of any pedestrian upon a roadway.
NJ ST 39:4-36 |
Joan
Supporter
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 4891
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, February 6, 2005 - 3:24 pm: |
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Thanks Ashear. I had no idea the law extended to persons crossing the street in unmarked crosswalks at intersections. |
Bobkat
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 7502
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, February 6, 2005 - 3:28 pm: |
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Anyone who walks into a crosswalk assuming that drivers both see them and will stop is asking for a quick trip in a large van like vehicle with flashing lights and a siren. 
I can assure you that if you are driving and wave a pedestrian to cross a street you had better hope that the other traffic stops. You are responsible for every hair on the persons head until they make it to the other curb. Trust me I have seen the law suit settlements. |
Innisowen
Citizen
Username: Innisowen
Post Number: 381
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, February 6, 2005 - 4:50 pm: |
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Slightly different turn to the thread...I always slow down to let pedestrians across the street when they are already in the street or have stepped off the curb.
My "pet peeve" is when I see school crossing guards acting like traffic cops. I see this almost daily at a couple of the intersections on Prospect just down from Springfield Avenue: A crossing guard will stop traffic with the held-up STOP sign to help children and their parents cross the street to and from school. And we all stop, as we should, and that is fine.
What galls me is when traffic builds up, and the children and their parents have all crossed the street, the crossing guard waves at some cars to begin moving into the intersection. Frankly, I thought the duty of crossing guards was to help children and their parents cross the streets, NOT to direct traffic. Who is liable, the guard or Maplewood Township, if the guard's actions cause a traffic accident? |
Joan
Supporter
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 4895
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, February 6, 2005 - 6:32 pm: |
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Some of the crossing guards at busy and/or dangerous intersections, such as those on Prospect near Tuscan School are auxiliary polce officers or MPD officers. They are trained to direct traffic. |
joeltfk
Citizen
Username: Joeltfk
Post Number: 99
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 9:42 am: |
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I'll add something I don't like in a similar vein -- When people driving on Maplewood Avenue (that's the main road, right? I rarely look at street names) going in the direction of Arturo's to the movie theater (not good with NSWE bearings, either) make a U-turnish LEFT into a parking spot. C'mon people, if you missed it, you missed it. Make a real U-Turn, eat the delay, and take your legal shot. Anyone know what I'm talking about? |
Meandtheboys
Citizen
Username: Meandtheboys
Post Number: 138
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 9:53 am: |
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joeltfk: Know exactly what you are talking about and that is an illegal U-Turn across a double yellow line. I've seen people get tickets for it, but not nearly enough.
You know what they say "there's never a cop around when you need one." |
Wendyn
Supporter
Username: Wendyn
Post Number: 1327
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 9:53 am: |
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Innis, I had a similar incident when trying to make a left from Parker onto Valley. Students were filing toward CHS and the crossing guard was working diligently to get them across the street. But every time the light turned in their favor, the crossing guard would hold up traffic, blocking my turn. I in turn was blocking many cars on Parker. I would think given the light seemed pretty short, the guard could have done an every other light thing (e.g. made the kids wait one light so traffic could ease up) or at least given us a window to turn. I waited through about 3 lights before I had a shot.
Don't get me wrong, I have no problem waiting and think that crossing guards provide an invaluable service. And my mistake was trying to get to Starbucks instead of going straight to work  . Just wondering if the guards can be more cognescent of the traffic as well as the kids. |
Neen
Citizen
Username: Neen
Post Number: 106
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 9:57 am: |
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Thank you all for sharing my anger on this issue. I have noticed that a number of people have mentioned the idea of an "unmarked" crosswalk, one without an additional sign saying you must stop. What on earth would be the point of a crosswalk (a marking in itself) if it has to have a sign to mean something. Perhaps it is just there so pedestrians, who are likely to run completely amok in the middle of the street without these crosswalks, can know where to go? Or perhaps it is just easier for the town when pedestrians become roadkill to have only one little strip from which to clean them up? The CROSS WALK is the sign indicating that you must stop if a pedestrian is currently in the crosswalk, or is patiently waiting on the side for you to do what you are legally supposed to do. It is not a favor or courtesy you re doing for them, it is the law.
I can't believe all this nonsense about being able to stop safely. If you plow through a red light because you are going too fast and the guy behind you is going to fast, you are still obligated to stop, crosswalks are no different. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 5370
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 10:13 am: |
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I remember the UK calls crosswalks "zebra crossings" because they are painted with zigzag stripes. They also have flashing globe lights on both sides. Marking them prominently helps motorists remember their obligations. So I would like to see them come here. But I don't expect them to, either. |
Taurus5208
Citizen
Username: Taurus5208
Post Number: 51
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 11:28 am: |
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I understand the fact that cars must yield to pedestrians, however I think that pedestrians must also take responsibility for themselves as well. Walking the four blocks from my apartment to the train station on SO Ave. I always cross with the lights and keep an eye on traffic before stepping into the street, however many times I have seen pedestrians not even look up from their newspaper while walking the same path as me, just expecting cars to see them and stop. People don't always see you, and I think that both parties need to be aware of and courtious to one another. |
jamie
Moderator
Username: Jamie
Post Number: 764
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 11:41 am: |
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Salt Lake City had a cool idea with flags. They would have them on either side of the street, you just pick one up on one side and drop it off on the other. Cars would stop for people who had a flag in hand.
 |
Earlster
Supporter
Username: Earlster
Post Number: 939
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 12:12 pm: |
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As Tom mentioned, in europe cross walks have signs and usually some special lighting which makes them more visible to drivers from a distance.
Sometimes it is hard to see that there is a crosswalk when you have cars in front of you, or there is snow on the road, it's dark, etc.
Signs would really be a nice move to make crossing safer for pedestrians. |
Earlster
Supporter
Username: Earlster
Post Number: 940
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 12:15 pm: |
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Innisowen
Citizen
Username: Innisowen
Post Number: 383
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 12:41 pm: |
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Zebra stripes and roundabouts in the UK and Ireland have had a wonderful impact on traffic safety. In addition, drivers in most northern European countries have to take a much more structured and lengthy preparation, both in classes and in driving hours and the workings of their automobiles, before they can take their final driver's test.
Some of that additional training, structure, and theory would benefit us here, in my opinion. |
vor
Citizen
Username: Vor
Post Number: 384
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 2:51 pm: |
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Ashear quotes:
"The driver of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way to a pedestrian crossing the roadway within a marked crosswalk or within any unmarked crosswalk at an intersection, except at crosswalks when the movement of traffic is being regulated by police officers or traffic control signals, or where otherwise prohibited by municipal, county, or State regulation, and except where a pedestrian tunnel or overhead pedestrian crossing has been provided, but no pedestrian shall suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and walk or run into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to yield. Nothing contained herein shall relieve a pedestrian from using due care for his safety."
Regarding the underlined part of the passage...does anyone know if "any municipal, county or state regulation" overrules the pedestrian right of way statute when the road in question has a double yellow line with a speed limit greater then 25mph (i.e., Valley St)?
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Joan
Supporter
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 4900
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 5:05 pm: |
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Jamie:
George made the same suggestion a few years ago. He even volunteered to design and help obtain the flags.
Vor:
A significant number of children cross Valley Street every day on their way to/from the High School, the Middle School, Memorial Park, the library, the village, etc. The crosswalks on Valley are needed to help them cross safely. Perhaps a solution would be to slow traffic on Valley Street down to 25 miles per hour. |
vor
Citizen
Username: Vor
Post Number: 385
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 5:41 pm: |
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Or maybe a traffic light. I believe Tom mentioned something about a traffic light which is supposed to be put up next fall. (I wonder why it takes so long?)
The only reason I bring this up is I just think it's foolhardy to think that someone going 35mph or more is suddenly going to slow down and stop on such a busy road. There are no signs and there is a double yellow line, which indicates a heavier traveled road. I grew up near a street that was similar to Valley and my parents used to call it the highway so I would defer to the cars instead of the other way around. I just think its too dangerous to think otherwise. |
Mrs T
Citizen
Username: Netjack
Post Number: 28
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 5:52 pm: |
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I go through the town of Milford, NJ, on the Delaware River in Hunterdon Co. a lot, it's very small. It does have several crosswalks, painted in white stripes,and has signs that tell you "Stop of Ped. in Crosswalk". Simple and effective. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 5510
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - 11:28 am: |
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Today's adventure takes the cake. I dropped my daughter off at Columbia High School this morning, and I waited for her to cross in the crosswalk in front of me. Behind me, an unmarked police car honked at me. Well, maybe the officer wasn't from South Orange or Maplewood. Does Maplewood have unmarked cars? It was a silver Ford Crown Victoria. |
ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 3356
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - 11:41 am: |
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I believe he is a detective. THe kids know him by name. |
Albatross
Citizen
Username: Albatross
Post Number: 498
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - 1:16 pm: |
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Maplewood has two unmarked cars, as I recall: two Crown Vics, one silver and one black.
Students know him as Detective Mike. |
Spare_o
Citizen
Username: Spare_o
Post Number: 196
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - 1:45 pm: |
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I used to live in Hoboken and there are many occasions where car and pedestrian contend for the same space. Granted the circumstances are different but the issue remains the same. Hoboken started placing little yellow yield signs on cones or flexible posts since traffic lights didn't make sense on the side streets and no one obeyed the stop signs anymore. The little yellow yield to pedstrian signs are moveable in that I don't think they are always at the same intersections all the time. They are visual reminders at problem intersections that drivers need to stop. They seem to be effective since they aren't always part of the landscape and I have pointed to them upon occasion when drivers aren't stopping. I'm not sure if something like this would work in Maplewood but they are probably relatively inexpensive and I don't think they require state or county approval (or a study for that matter) to implement, which is the issue with traffic lights and stop signs.
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Amie Brockway-Metcalf
Citizen
Username: Amie
Post Number: 173
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - 2:04 pm: |
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Why doesn't Valley St and the rest of SO have those "Yield To Pedestrians" signs in the MIDDLE of the street? I know downtown Maplewood had them in non-snowplow weather. |
SO Refugee
Citizen
Username: So_refugee
Post Number: 17
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 1, 2005 - 9:12 pm: |
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Those signs are up and down South Orange Ave. and almost no one pays attention to them unless you toss it through their windshield...
Oh, to be king for a day!!! |
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