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nan
Citizen
Username: Nan
Post Number: 1832
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 6:18 pm: | 
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"You called a particular view -- which, by the way, is not necessarily my own -- "dumb". Now how could that view be "dumb" if it were somehow possible for an intelligent person to hold it? "
Gordon,
Sometimes intelligence is domain specific and that view might be in a different domain than the one where the intelligence resides. Sometimes intelligent people act dumb. Sometimes intelligent people don't have truthful information on which to base their judgments. These are just some of the possibilities.
Anyway, I see you say you might not hold that position anyway. Have you got a candidate in mind that you are trying to warm up the support for? This thread seems to be the pre-election holding pen, if you ask me.
It's almost time to open up the gate. |
lumpyhead
Citizen
Username: Lumpyhead
Post Number: 1118
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 11:05 am: |
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Since you are so passionate and self proclaimed expert, why don't you run? |
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 2031
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 2:05 pm: |
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To address the achievement gap, solutions incorporating differentiated instruction, sensitivity training of staff and students, and parent education programs exist.Thse cost big bucks.
These programs and practices are only costly if insensitive attitudes persist, and the attitude of some of those doing the hiring does not emphasize
cross-cultural and racial sensitivity. Some of your new hires were particularly experienced in
interracial and intercultural settings, but certainly not all. I am sorry, but you have some staff who just tend to see things in black and white. How do you control for that? Ask some good questions when hiring new staff. Train your school administrators to ask the right questions. Look for people who have gone to school in interracial and intercultural settings, and have taken courses in cross-cultural areas. This kind of Intelligence does not cost money. It can even be written into hiring policy and practices without spending a dime.
I'll bet you it will help close your achievement gap.
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jacman
Citizen
Username: Jacman
Post Number: 269
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 2:53 pm: |
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I have read about two schools that have had great success in narrowing the achievement gap: the Frederick Douglass Academy in Harlem and the Amistad Academy in New Haven, CT. Both of these charter schools have a tremendous emphasis on discipline and parental involvement, and although I agree with Tulip that all schools with diverse student populations will benefit from the things he/she mentions, I believe that discipline and parental involvement are of prime importance.
The current administration at Columbia High School has undermined all attempts to strengthen discipline-- first by allowing the elimination of courses and approving schedules for students with blocks of free time with nothing for students to do but get into trouble, and secondly by allowing and even facilitating non-compliance with the detention and attendance policies.
The result has been the creation of a school culture where there are practically no consequences for unacceptable behavior.
This pitiful situation did not happen overnight, but evolved over time. From the onset, teachers tried valiantly to convince the administration and board of education that a train wreck was inevitable, but the administration and board were wearing blinders and earpulgs and claimed the teachers were merely chronic complainers.
Now, with Ms. Pollack's tenure practically a certainty, many teachers feel the situation is hopeless, and they are retiring, leaving for other districts or simply closing their doors and leaving at 3:15. Again, this process will not happen overnight, but one day, you will wake up and the faculty of CHS will not be what it once was. And you will ask yourselves, "How did this happen? How come we can only recruit third-rate people to work for us?" |
nan
Citizen
Username: Nan
Post Number: 1835
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 8:16 pm: |
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Jackman,
It sound like you are expressing the oft heard conservative view that schools don't need more money or resources, only a greater focus on discipline and high standards. What's ironic is that you blame the administration for cutting back on programs but seem oblivious to the way lack of money contributed to those problems. In your view, everything seems to be the fault of bad management or bad parents.
Such views are often accompanied by examples of supposedly successful schools, with the idea that "if they can do it" than "we should be able to do it too." The problem with this view is that when you closely examine these "success" examples they are often not as advertised and seldom reproducible on a large scale.
For example, here's how they recruit teachers at the Frederik Douglas Academy, a school you cited as an exemplary model we should follow:
Gregory Hodge, principal of the Frederick Douglass Academy in Harlem, states bluntly: "Teachers don’t come to the Frederick Douglass Academy to retire. They come here to make a contribution. So I ask them: Will they make the time, will they sacrifice their other commitments, do they have the skills…We spend approximately seven months a year trying to recruit teachers. I’ll interview 100 to 150 teachers before I make a decision to hire."
Hodge’s stipulations are reminiscent of contracts from the 19th century, which often made the contract contingent on the teacher’s remaining single. If one assumes 22 working days in a month, Hodge’s schedule works out to almost one interview per day, an extraordinary amount of time for one procedure.
http://www.asu.edu/educ/epsl/EPRU/peer_reviews/cerai-00-19.htm
Do you think this is workable here? Do you think teachers should work as though they had no life except at school? Do you think, especially given the amount of screaming we hear about the number of administrators, that we could interview this many people per open slot?
These are just some of the complications I notice.
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Concerned07040
Citizen
Username: Concerned07040
Post Number: 30
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 9:32 pm: |
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Nan,
I think Jacman is referring to the current situation at CHS in terms of issues the staff has discussed for the last few years: electives are being cut and replaced with study halls or free periods. This means students are given permission to roam the halls or leave the building when they should be in an academic environment.
For example, Mrs. Pollack created a senior privilege for 12th graders. Any senior who has a study hall can turn that into a free period provided there are no detentions to be served and the student has a certain grade point average. I would guess a B average would be required. Sadly, I was informed that any student with a C- average is able to take advantage of this "privilege."
Once we lower the bar for academic standards and minimize the consequences for inappropriate behavior, we have lost the battle.
Concerned07040 |
nan
Citizen
Username: Nan
Post Number: 1837
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 10:20 pm: |
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Concerned07040,
I think we all are concerned about the negative effects of program cuts. But, I think a big part of the problem is lack of funding. Jackman seems to feel the blame is entirely on the administration.
He cited two examples of schools he felt were well run. In at least one of those schools, the teachers are expected to work extremely long hours (perhaps availability of 24x7) to assure all of the students are prepared for school everyday. There are other demands as well. They have to interview over 100 teachers to find one that would agree to all of the demands (that go beyond availability) to work there.
jackman mentioned the possiblity of loosing lots of valued staff here. I'm wondering about the turnover at Frederick Douglass. I'm wondering if jackman would really be happier working there.
Also mentioned, in the same article I cited above, is that many of the students are preselected and only the most motivated are chosen. Anyone who does not work up to expectations is removed.
In public school we don't have the luxury of forcing teachers to work like slaves, and selecting only the most motivated students, and in getting rid of those who don't want to be busy little beavers. We also have some major funding issues.
I'm wondering what you think can be done working within the constraints of a real public school system, not a fantasy created by the conservative media to attack one. |
TomR
Citizen
Username: Tomr
Post Number: 486
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 12:13 am: |
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nan,
While I will readily concede that a 24/7 work environment would be considered excessive in any field outside law and medicine, I am curious as to your views on whether instructional staff should be condsidered, and treated, as salaried personnel; or as wage earners.
TomR. |
jacman
Citizen
Username: Jacman
Post Number: 271
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 1:24 am: |
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Nan,
In your zeal to pigeonhole me as a "conservative" who thinks that "schools don't need more money or resources, only a greater focus on discipline and high standards" you do me a disservice.
You know nothing about my advocacy except what I wrote in my post. Assuming my positions on anything else is unfair. Just because you may be an ideologue, don't assume that I am one.
I said: "I believe that discipline and parental involvement are of prime importance." And then I went on to explain how the current administration has undermined what I consider to be of PRIME importance.
I never said that the two schools I mentioned were the be-all and end-all of educational perfection or even that I think we can or should replicate their model within the public school system.
I merely pointed out that maintaining a school culture that values discipline and academic rigor is of prime importance and that the current administration and board of education has NOT regarded these as their highest priority.
Now my question to you is: "Why do you doggedly defend this administration and board of education? What exactly is it about what they have done and what they are doing that deserves your support?" And please don't refer to what they SAY they want to do. We have enough smoke and mirrors from them. Just the facts, ma'am... |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 4641
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 8:33 am: |
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Nan,
Considering we don't even have funds to keep the schools clean, and have barely any elective courses left (if any), don't you think that "greater focus on discipline and high standards" would be a good start? And shouldn't all teachers be trained in focusing on discipline anyway (so this shouldn't cost extra money)? These are not miniature adults, they are still kids and they need structure and discipline, not just in learning how to read, etc. but for social behavior as well. |
nan
Citizen
Username: Nan
Post Number: 1838
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 12:43 pm: |
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jacman,
I'm not trying to pigeonhole you as anything and I would ask that you refrain from doing the same to me. I was just commenting on your example of exemplary schools which caused me to question the assumptions under your anger. It is true you did not say these schools were the be all and end all; but, you did say that these schools work and ours does not. That sounded like you think we should be the Frederick Douglas Academy, which is an unfair comparison and a questionable desire.
I'm questioning the purpose of using those examples at all, especially since you bring up the issue of teacher turnover. I suspect they have a much higher rate of that then we do. I also think it's much easier to enforce discipline when you can make sure that every student is motivated or else. You know that is not going to happen around here no matter who’s in charge.
Of course the best way to deal with discipline problems is to get the students interested in learning something. So, the shrinking electives are a big problem and I agree with your observations on this. I've read most of your posts over the last few years, so I'm not basing what I say on just this one. I agree that lack of classes and programs erodes opportunities for students, and often leads to greater numbers of disenchanted students. But, the reality is we have limited funding these days and I don't think any Superintendent would be able to preserve every program intact, no matter how low a salary they agreed to work for.
A good example, from a mention in a recent post of yours, is the loss of industrial arts, which I agree was an important and valuable program.
As with much of this, I notice there is a huge heaping of responsibility and venting of anger on the administration and none on the prevailing larger culture that does not value industrial arts and the current woeful lack of financial support for public education. Do you honestly think that if we had a different superintendent we'd still have industrial arts? When you have a limited budget and declining enrollment and a shop that requires a huge upgrade, an available program elsewhere, and a society that puts a premium on getting everyone ready for college whether they are interested or not what's anyone going to do? I'm sure we will see this is a huge loss--as one more instance in which our quality of life and opportunities for our children are eroding. But, it is just a waste of time to blame Horoshack.
A lot of what you perceive as my dogged support of the administration and BOE comes out of my much larger anger at the political policies and climate that got us here in the first place. If I thought getting rid of Horoshack would bring us all the programs we wanted and pristine buildings and motivated students and happy teachers than I'd also be looking to see him gone. I don't think he's perfect by a long shot, but some of what you all are complaining about will not change if he stays or if he goes and much of the complaining is so misplaced. When are some of you going to realize that sometimes complaining about lack of communication is really just complaining that you are not hearing what you want to hear?
And things could be much worse with someone else. How about a superintendent that only wants higher test scores and does not care about other programs? How about a superintendent that just wants cheap teachers that can read scripts? You think the Frederick Douglas Academy is a great school? After a week there, I bet you'd be thinking about the halcyon days of good old CHS. Be careful what you wish for.
Other than its connection to program loss, I'm not sure about your comments on the CHS Principal's approach to discipline. I don’t have any kids at the high school, although I live right down the street and I take my kid over there once a week for swimming class, so I do see some of what goes on. So, much of my information is indirectly obtained and all of it is contradictory.
Why is it I hear from many parents that they think CHS principal is great and a "Don't take BS" kind of person that they want? I've also read some students on MOL complain that she is severe and unfair with the punishments.
And then from you and some others I hear she's a softie? Are you saying that the parents who view her the one way don't know the truth?
CHS has had a lot of principal turnover in the last few years and this is the first one I've heard anyone like. So, I'm also wondering if it's possible that any human being could do that job. |
jacman
Citizen
Username: Jacman
Post Number: 272
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 3:19 pm: |
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Nan asks: "Do you honestly think that if we had a different superintendent we'd still have industrial arts?"
Every other high school in our area still has a flourishing industrial arts program as well as a school-to-work transition program, which ours does not, so the answer to this question is, "yes."
Nan says: "And things could be much worse with someone else."
Um...I believe this was the rationale that kept many "good folks" tolerating really bad leaders who afterall got the trains to run on time...
And finally, in my view, discipline has nothing to do with being a "don't take BS kind of person." It has to do with enforcing the rules consistently, fairly and, yes, compassionately. In all these things, current CHS leadership is lacking.
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nan
Citizen
Username: Nan
Post Number: 1843
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 5:32 pm: |
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jackman,
Are you saying that Renee Pollack and Dr. Horoshack are facists in the model of Mussolini? After all, he's the one that supposedly got the trains to run on time.
Perhaps I did not explain my positon clearly enough, but I have respect for Dr. Horoshack. It's not a "the devil you know" situation.
I'm not as well informed about Ms. Pollack and I was hoping for some insight there, but it seems all you are interested in is venting and personal attacks.
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Gordon Agress
Citizen
Username: Odd
Post Number: 73
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 5:55 pm: |
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"Are you saying that Renee Pollack and Dr. Horoshack are facists in the model of Mussolini? After all, he's the one that supposedly got the trains to run on time. "
So what if he is? If he were, he'd surely be doing so with reference to some "domain" of action wherein the murdering political thug overtones of "fascist" doesn't apply.
It would be "dumb" and "pathetic" to think otherwise, right?
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Southorangemom
Citizen
Username: Southorangemom
Post Number: 170
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 6:49 pm: |
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Let's all calm down a bit here.
We don't need to call each other fascists or other names just to get our points across. :-)
What we DO need to talk about, in a reasonable and intelligent way, is the future of CHS and the school district.
Dr. Horoschak and Mrs. Pollack do not seem to have a vision that has been communicated to the students, parents or staff. That was my inital concept when I started this thread a number of days ago.
SouthOrangeMom
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nan
Citizen
Username: Nan
Post Number: 1847
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 7:33 pm: |
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Here's some communication from this thread that I'm wondering about--
"Considering we don't even have funds to keep the schools clean, and have barely any elective courses left (if any),. . ."
Mem,
Can you tell me what electives, besides Industrial Arts, have been eliminated at the high school?
If it's as many as you claim you can just list ten or so just so we get an idea. |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 4659
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 8:02 pm: |
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Nan,
I have a friend preparing to run for BOE - this person will be researching this. What about French class? Music? Dropping Shop class and industrial arts - that's huge.
And very importantly, what about the 25% failure rate? What if a corporation rewarded it's employees with higher salaries and big raises if they reported a 25% failure rate? It's ludicrous that our admin makes more than other districts and has this failure rate. How can anyone even have the remote desire to defend this instead of making immediate plans to fix it?
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sbenois
Citizen
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 13231
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 8:12 pm: |
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What is the drop dead date for declaring that one is running for the BOE? |
Reflective
Citizen
Username: Reflective
Post Number: 741
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 8:34 pm: |
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like the end of Feb
did you get your packet yet?
Of course, sben. you can declare on line that you are running. |
nan
Citizen
Username: Nan
Post Number: 1848
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 9:04 pm: |
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Nevermind, Mem,
I'm saving you and your friend the effort of doing "the research." Except for industrial arts (which is still available at Essex Vo-Tech),the correct number of eliminated electives at CHS is. . .
zero
In fact, I found out that the school even hired more FTE's for elective classes.
Nothing like a little manufactured crisis before the election to drum up support for one's candidate. Let's just hope your friend, the candidate, is more honest than you.
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Reflective
Citizen
Username: Reflective
Post Number: 745
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 9:24 pm: |
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Nan
It's common knowledge that Mem's "friend, the candidate" was pushing for more FTE's and more electives, as part of an election platform.
Looks to me that the candidate who produces results (according to your facts) even before being elected is worth being elected.
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sbenois
Citizen
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 13232
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 9:26 pm: |
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Our schools are in a crisis. There is no need to manufacture one. |
Southorangemom
Citizen
Username: Southorangemom
Post Number: 171
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 10:12 pm: |
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Nan,
Where are you getting that information on the elective program at CHS?
Is it anecdotal? Do you have documentation?
I would like to see some hard data.
SouthOrangemom |
jacman
Citizen
Username: Jacman
Post Number: 273
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 11:24 pm: |
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The industrial arts department lost three full time teachers-- that's fifteen classes. Nan, your Essex Voc-Tech thingie is fallacious since we can only send a handful of kids there a year. That hardly compares to 15 classes x 20 or 25 students in a class. The business department has lost courses, too. We used to have a work-study program that served about 20 kids a year. So to say that except for industrial arts the net loss is zero is a total fallacy, sort of like saying except for marines, we haven't lost too many people in Iraq.
Additionally, the student population has grown a lot in the last few years, which has added to the problem.
Lastly, please, please I beg you not to put words in my mouth to make your points. I never called anyone a fascist, and your rhetorical query is unprincipled. I made an analogy comparing YOUR behavior to the behavior of the folks who tolerated bad leaders in the past.
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nan
Citizen
Username: Nan
Post Number: 1850
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 5:51 am: |
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Sbenios,
I agree the schools are in crisis, but not for the major reasons presented in this thread.
Southoranagemon,
Jacman provides some data on the loss of industrial arts. Is your candidate going to campaign on a "bring back industrial arts" platform?
jacman,
The industrial arts program needed a tremendously expensive upgrade and it had declining enrollment. I doubt there were 20 kids in most of those classes. Kids today are not, in great numbers, signing up to learn how to repair automobiles. This is also happening in other NJ locations. For example, Randolph is scaling back their shop program for the same reasons.
I agree it sucks. But, what would you have done differently? What would you have cut instead?
BTW, I put no words in your mouth. Your phrase about following leaders because "they get the trains to run on time" is a well know reference to fascism. It seems you want to launch personal attacks without taking responsibility. |
fringe
Citizen
Username: Fringe
Post Number: 790
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 7:31 am: |
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Let's try this from another angle. Most of the cuts during the Jasey-O'Leary-Latz era have been made at the expense of staff - experienced teachers, classroom teachers, CHS electives and support personnel. At the same time the district has continued to pour money into primarily social programs and unproven experiments - including Seth Boyden. The shift has been incremental making it less obvious. But there can be little argument that it has occurred.
Next year's budget continues this trend with the elementary schools bearing the brunt of the cuts announced so far. I'm hearing there are more to come tonight.
Returning to the thread's topic, how well have the BOE members sought out public opinion for their "vision?" Is the Strategic Planning process a legitimate effort to determine community consensus or another coat of process whitewash? |
mjc
Citizen
Username: Mjc
Post Number: 270
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 1:41 pm: |
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Quoting nan: "The industrial arts program needed a tremendously expensive upgrade and it had declining enrollment. I doubt there were 20 kids in most of those classes."
In regard to "declining enrollment," I believe the number of sections in industrial arts had been cut, and staff cut back to 1, by the fall of 2001. At that time, my son and some of his friends tried to enroll in tech cycle (the "entry level" IA course) and hoped to go on to other IA classes, but the classes were filled up. This is a great way to cut electives without appearing to cut electives: Make it impossible for students to enroll, then say enrollment is falling.
Also, since the loss of IA is a pet peeve of mine, I have to say it doesn't affect only someone else's kids or only people who "aren't college material" whatever that means. My kid is an honors student. He also loves working in the real, physical world. The one semester of tech cycle he was able to enroll in before the enter IA program was dumped was probably his all-time favorite class, with the possible exception of advanced calculus.
IMHO, the loss of the IA program is a serious disservice to the district and makes a joke of the district's claims to address different ways of learning. Citing Vo-Tech as a replacement doesn't work since it's only available to kids who are already committed to a tech course, not to the many who might like to TRY OUT a tech program. Thousands for animation, or for TV in every classroom (not to mention admin salaries), but not one cent for tech? Please!
(end of rant) |
nan
Citizen
Username: Nan
Post Number: 1851
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 8:53 pm: |
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mjc,
I agree with much of what you have to say about industrial arts. I also think it was a big loss of meaningful classes for many students. However, the decline of such programs is a national phenomena, related to lack of funding, change in student interests, and the corporate and government push (NCLB) for more focus on standardized tests and college level classes for everyone.
Here's an article from a few years ago about the issue in my home state, Massachusetts:
Some People in MA Ask, What About Kids Who Aren't "Standard?"
http://www.susanohanian.org/show_atrocities.html?id=541
In our district, I think the issue was primarily financial. Something had to go and all things considered that was what it came down to. Can you think of another program that could have been cut instead?
I know you mention "administrator salaries" but that was not going to be enough to save the industrial arts program. And, from what I understand, there is tremendous enrollment in classes for animation or the TV studio or other techie interests. |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 4662
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 9:01 pm: |
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Nan,
Thanks for calling me a liar. You're such a nice, well socialized person. Gives me chills!
We're all sure you'll attack my friend before you even know what this person is about - no worries there! |
jacman
Citizen
Username: Jacman
Post Number: 274
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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Nan sez: "In our district, I think the issue was primarily financial. Something had to go and all things considered that was what it came down to. Can you think of another program that could have been cut instead?"
It's not OUR job to figure this out, there are several people making six figure salaries who are supposed to do that.
"However, the decline of such programs is a national phenomena [sic], related to lack of funding, change in student interests, and the corporate and government push (NCLB) for more focus on standardized tests and college level classes for everyone."
Stop being an apologist for bad decisions, Nan. I've already told you that IA programs in our area have been expanding and upgrading to meet the needs of the population and mjc explained how an illusion of "lowered demands" was artificially created at CHS in order to justify the cuts.
Yes, we have budgetary problems, this is also a "national phenomenon." Doesn't mean you have to turn Columbia High School into Bushwick High School. |
nan
Citizen
Username: Nan
Post Number: 1852
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 6:41 am: |
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Mem,
You said that we "have barely any elective courses left (if any)," which is not even close to the truth. I don't think deliberately spreading false information about our school district is a responsible way to behave.
As for your "candidate," I will certainly listen to what they have to say. However, the fact that you have already told me that he or she will need to "research" some basic information is troubling. Let's hope they will not be just making stuff up. That would bother me; however, as evidenced, you don't seem to have a problem with that. |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 4664
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 10:35 am: |
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Oh nan, stop the silly defensive nitpicking. When I went to CHS, there were enough electives so that we weren't left with all these free periods. When has this changed? Recently.
So, how was it when you attended CHS?
Most importantly, entire course offerings are abolished, which is just as bad if not worse.
Please take a deeeep breath and don't be troubled on my or my "Candidate's" account at the moment, it's too soon and hey, why should you be "troubled" to begin with? Why do your posts sometimes appear to be so dysfunctionally defensive at the mention of new BOE candidates? I don't think your intention is to appear so extremist.
I always found that change is good, especially when things are really bad. Don't you agree? |
mjc
Citizen
Username: Mjc
Post Number: 281
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 2:25 pm: |
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mem, you know I'm distressed too by cutting of courses at CHS, but realistically, it's a long jump from "not everyone can find enough electives to fill up a 9-period day" to "barely any elective courses left (if any)." CHS still has a strong and varied curriculum, AND yes, we need to be ready to push for alternatives to proposed further cuts.
(full disclosure: mom of CHS graduate and near-graduate, classes of '03 and '05) |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 4669
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 5:54 pm: |
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OK. I admit my perception is different than yours because when I went to CHS there was a lot more offered, and CHS was in the top 10 as well. That should help alleviate the dramtic concerns over my "jump". Perhaps I shouldn't compare then to now, but why not?
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mjc
Citizen
Username: Mjc
Post Number: 287
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 6:12 pm: |
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Top 10 again would certainly be a very good thing.  What else was offered when you were there that's gone now? (I'm a relative newcomer to SOMA.) |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 4670
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 8:08 pm: |
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Personally, I got to take extra art classes, photography, and jewelry making courses instead of free periods, also music. It helped prepare me for my BFA for which I am grateful to CHS for. There were extensive work/study programs for those who weren't headed to college, and the shop and industrial art classes were first rate. I'm sure others who have attended back then share similar stories.
Anyway, it would be nice to be top ten again. Maybe someday? |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 4671
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 8:21 pm: |
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Nan & mjc,
I apologize for sounding a bit harsh, but I look at my taxes going up up up, 65% goes to the schools, and it seems the schools appear to be going down down down. It really bugs me.
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mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 4674
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 3:02 pm: |
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This is from Albatross, a fellow CHS grad, (I think):
"Elective courses at CHS have been and are becoming much less accessible, due to a combination of decreasing availability and increasing demand: four years ago it was a simple matter to take more than one elective; now most students are forced to take study halls."
Albatross said it better than me - my mistake for PWA (Posting While Angry) in my previous posts. |
mjc
Citizen
Username: Mjc
Post Number: 293
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 4:54 pm: |
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mem, in our family's experience, you and Alb are right, it's harder to enroll in electives than even 4 or 5 years ago. And the loss of work/study, to me, is right up there with the loss of industrial arts in importance (and maybe harder to defend, since work/study presumably wouldn't require a costly physical equipment upgrade like IA), but I'll skip the extended rant this time.
happy weekend!
MC |
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