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Message |
    
Dego Diva
Citizen
Username: Fmingione
Post Number: 237
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 7:23 pm: |     |
Tom - that's exactly what happened to me when I was born!!! My Italian parents were told to use an "American" version of my name. As I got older, I decided to adopt my name as my parents originally intened it to be - the name of my culture, my grandfather, my great-grandmother. And though I am an American through and through, my name honors the struggle and hard work of my immigrant parents, who sacrificed everything so that I can enjoy all this country has to offer. Including the freedom to use any name I want!  |
Eric Wertheim
Citizen
Username: Bub
Post Number: 7
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 8:10 pm: | |
"Jennifer 8" was the name of a suspense movie with Andy Garcia from about 10 years ago. Coincidence . . .??? |
Albatross
Citizen
Username: Albatross
Post Number: 483
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 8:20 pm: | |
quote:I dont understand why it is necessary to go back in time and use names that are one: difficult to pronounce, difficult to remember, difficult to spell, or difficult to understand. What exactly is the point here? If you live in America use an American name. If you don't live in America use what ever name you want.
Difficult for you, perhaps. My last name is Italian; by your standards it's unAmerican because the average telemarketer can't pronounce it properly.
As for the point, it's cultural, as it was explained above. As far as having an 'American' name, every name that we use has been deriven from a different country / culture. English is by nature a borrowing language.
Explain this to me: How does diversity in names detract from a common identity? Last I checked, cultural diversity was one of this country's strengths. You say that we'll forget who we are? If we insist on 'Americanization' of names, then I say that we've already forgotten. |
Lizziecat
Citizen
Username: Lizziecat
Post Number: 504
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 8:23 pm: | |
Our immigrant forebears sometimes got their names in unconventional ways. When my great-grandfather came to this country, he was advised that his name wouldn't sound "American" enough--so he picked a name that he thought was really American--Goldberg. And my father was given the name Kussel when he was born. When he started kindergarten in Brooklyn, his teacher gave him a name that was more American--Charles--and Charles was what he was for the rest of his life. People who are interested in genealogy know how compicated it is to trace ancestry because of name changes. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 5393
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 10:05 pm: | |
We have to pick a date if we're going to make rules. If we pick a date before we were colonized, we'd settle on names from Native American languages. If we pick a date when most people here had English ancestry, then we'll have English names. Now that the country is at least 13% Hispanic, we can allow Spanish names, right?
See how this becomes absurd. And you didn't try to answer my question. WHO gets to decide which names are sufficiently American? |
monster
Citizen
Username: Monster
Post Number: 512
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 10:24 pm: | |
dang Carrie, you sound like a little Hitler in the making. Get off your horse and smell the stink that is you, what should it matter what name a person has, is given, uses, or changes...
I am a mixed breed American, my ancestors are Dutch, Germanic, English, Scandinavian, Native American Indian, and what have you, I've changed my name, I've changed my name when I got married to my wife (took her last name), and I'm considering changing it again, why would anyone really give a dang, it's just a name, and I'm still the same ol' Monster underneath...But that's a completely different story.
|
Carrie Avery
Citizen
Username: Carrie33
Post Number: 88
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 6:54 am: | |
You're right, Monster, you are.
As for the rest of this topic, you all go and agrue what you want, everyone has a right to their opinion, and that is American. |
Strings
Supporter
Username: Blue_eyes
Post Number: 381
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 7:28 am: | |
So was the show "Blossom" unAmerican because her next door neighbor's name was Six? |
Bobkat
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 7514
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 7:50 am: | |
With a name like Jennifer Lee that isn't really indicative of her background (Light Horse Harry Lee, Robert E. Lee,peggy Lee,etc.) she might use the 8 as an identifier. I know a married couple, a Chinese American woman and an Italian American man, where the woman always uses her maiden name in connection with her married name to avoid confusion and especially to avoid people saying, "funny you don't look Italian."
For those of you who want to control names, move to France. In that country the guv'mint has to approve childrens names. 
|
Hank Zona
Citizen
Username: Hankzona
Post Number: 2004
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 7:56 am: | |
Strings,
I went to high school with twin brothers with the last name Six...needless to say, they were referred to often as the Dozen. |
Wendyn
Supporter
Username: Wendyn
Post Number: 1332
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 9:02 am: | |
Just curious Carrie, if you moved to China would you change your name? First, last, middle, all? Would you change your childrens' names? Would you immediately speak perfect Chinese?
"We are one country with many diverse people, who want to stand together as One Nation. To do this, I believe, it is important to remember what that means. In some ways, it might mean differant things to differant people, and this is our problem as a country. We must have a sense of what we ought to do as -one group- that makes us stand out and stand proud as people from the USA."
So it is our problem as a country that we as individuals think differently? Yet "everyone has a right to their opinion, and that is American.". Which is it? Can I have an opinion or not? I can have an opinion as long as I agree with "the group"? What group would that be, yours?
Your posts sound very racist and exclusionary to me. Perhaps you should try to appreciate diversity of culture and opinion a bit more, it might help you get by in the melting pot that is NYC.
|
Parkbench87
Citizen
Username: Parkbench87
Post Number: 1712
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 10:12 am: | |
"So was the show "Blossom" unAmerican because her next door neighbor's name was Six?"
However that was counteracted by having Dr John sing the theme song( Can't get anymore American than John)
Nox the actress who played Six was named Jenna Von Oy. What kind of un-American name is that? |
Dave
Moderator
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5200
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 11:07 am: | |
Good point, 87. |
shh
Citizen
Username: Shh
Post Number: 2148
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 1:16 pm: | |
PB87, you're scaring me with all these facts about Blossom! |
Wendyn
Supporter
Username: Wendyn
Post Number: 1340
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 1:45 pm: | |
Now Mayim (Hoya) Bialik, that is an American name. |
Mark Fuhrman
Citizen
Username: Mfpark
Post Number: 1257
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 2:11 pm: | |
Carrie: Hmm, that came from Caroline, which came from England. Nope, not American. Get a new name, please.
And what do we do with the many Black American names that have become very creative? These are clearly "American" names, created here on our very own soil from a culture that is 100% American. But, dang, they can sure be hard to spell or pronounce sometimes. So, do we make them change their names also? |
Bobkat
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 7518
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 2:17 pm: | |
During their occupation of Korea the Japanese required that the Koreans take Japanese names. This has been widely condemned. |
Earlster
Supporter
Username: Earlster
Post Number: 959
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 2:22 pm: | |
To further drift this thread:
http://www.wtsn.binghamton.edu/ANS/aName%20of%20the%20Year%202004.htm
American Name Society
Name of the Year 2004
1. THE WINNER WAS: Fahrenheit 9/11 -- The name of Michael Moore’s cinematographic exposé on President George W. Bush, was adapted from the title of Ray Bradbury’s Fahrenheit 451. Bradbury first published his work of social criticism in the form of a short story, “The Fireman,” in Galaxy Science Fiction in 1951 and then expanded it into a novel in 1953. The overt allusion to Fahrenheit 451 triggers for viewers a connection to issues that Bradbury and Moore treat in tandem: censorship, government manipulation, the keeping of secrets, and ruination for ordinary citizens. The name’s direct tie to the date 9/11, with its forward slash, focuses attention on the attack against the Twin Towers as central to Moore’s critique. Slant mathematical calculations can represent 911 as a “double” of 451 (450 x 2 = 900, plus a “doubling” of the 1 as 11), with the subtle implication that the 9/11 disaster is twice as bad as Bradbury’s imagined world. Regardless of viewers’ opinion of Moore’s film, its title generated a high degree of name-recognition, not only nationally but also internationally; Osama bin Laden himself referred to it in the pre-election warning he issued to the American people in the fall of 2004.
2. Al-Quaida (also Al-Qaida, Al-Qaeda, and other variants, including upper- and lower-case initials) -- Originating in the 1980s, Al-Quaida united extremist Arabs in Afghanistan’s fight against the USSR. Since then, connections to various acts of terrorism have brought the group to international attention. Its name is related to the Arabic “Qadir,” meaning “powerful.” Its announced goals, including the expulsion of non-Muslims from Muslim countries, have led it to claim responsibility for violence throughout the Middle East, as well as Asia and the Pacific, Africa, Europe, and North America. While little known in the United States prior to the September 11, 2001 attack in New York City, Al-Quaida has remained highly visible in the media since then. The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, commonly known as the 9/11 Commission, elevated Al-Quaida to new prominence on 22 July 2004, when it released its public report, linking the attack not only to the person of Osama bin Laden but also to the Taliban and to Al-Quaida for its military, political, and financial support.
3. Jon Stewart -- The name of this extremely popular comedian illuminates some of the contradictions of American culture in 2004. A comic who makes frequent reference to his Jewish ancestry in his humor, Jon Stewart was born Jonathan Stuart Leibowitz in 1962. He legally changed his name to Jon Stewart, his stage name, in 2001, and has joked that he “first changed my name from Leibowitz to Feinberg, but that struck me as the same.” The paradox here is that American popular culture accepts Jewish ancestry and identification as being “cool,” but it is still apparently not “cool” to have a Jewish-identified surname. By changing the spelling of his middle name when he made it his surname, Stewart also moved to a somewhat more “WASP” identified form, reinforcing the idea that only an assimilated and self-deprecating form of Jewishness is acceptable. And the final paradox of the name “Jon Stewart” is how a fairly bland and ordinary name has been given a new “hip” and irreverent meaning by Jon Stewart’s great success as host of the satirical television program The Daily Show.
4. Nevaeh -- The quick rise of this female given name over the past few years illustrates several factors in American name giving. Nevaeh, which is the word “heaven” spelled backwards, was a very eccentric name choice as recently as 1999, when there were only eight newborn girls given that name in the entire United States. Then in March of 2000 singer Sonny Sandoval, part of the “Christian rock” group P. O. D., named his daughter Nevaeh. On October 11, 2000, Sandoval was featured on the MTV television program Cribs, where he introduced his daughter and explained her name. The name made an immediate impression on expectant parents who saw the program: 86 newborns in the United States were named Nevaeh in 2000; 1,183 in 2001; 1,676 in 2002; and 2,257 in 2003, which made Nevaeh #150 on the Social Security list of names given American girls born that year. The name has also been picked up by a singer in Rhode Island (born Nicole Capostagno) as her stage name, and (embarrassingly for new parents) by an actress in pornographic films who is billed as “Nevaeh Ashton.” Nevaeh’s quick popularity is probably the result of two factors: its fitting in with the fashionable sounds of the moment (other girls’ names fashionable at this time include Ava, Grace, Jada, Aaliyah, and others with similar sounds or forms); and its tapping into pop culture’s interest in spirituality through its obvious origin as a reverse spelling of the word “heaven.” Nevaeh is the perfect example of how a previously eccentric name can become typical overnight in the present climate where parents are searching for individuality and uniqueness in names for their children. |
ML
Supporter
Username: Ml1
Post Number: 2254
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 2:36 pm: | |
As far as I know Shaquille O'Neal was the first person ever with that first name. Now there are thousands of boys named Shaquille. So who's to decide what's a "standard" name? |
Carrie Avery
Citizen
Username: Carrie33
Post Number: 89
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 2:54 pm: | |
You all are very cool, have awesome thoughts, and very correct in that I should be more open minded. I apologize if I started a thread that got out of hand. Sometimes the hormones get out of control and I get too wired.
Being in NYC there is alot of stress, and Wendy, you are right, perhaps I should open my eyes a bit more to the diversity. I have a hard time with so many differant kinds of people and languages, and they way people deal with issues, that perhaps I often live in small world, and think that it might be best to have everyone the same. Perhaps it would safer, less chaotic, less of a mess, so to speak. Have fun, gotta run. |
Wendyn
Supporter
Username: Wendyn
Post Number: 1341
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 3:15 pm: | |
Carrie, I've been there with the hormone thing. And I don't need hormones to be out of control! And most MOL threads get out of hand, even the most innocuous.
I have read that in the last 30 years or so names have gotten much more diverse. Obvious, yes, but interesting in that when many of us were children there were a bunch of Debbies, Karens or Jennifers in one class, and I remember sitting at a table in college in a bar with 5 guys named Dave. Now even if your kid has the #1 most popular name (2004 was Emma and Jacob according to http://www.babycenter.com/babyname/popnames.html) it is much less likely that there will be tons of kids with the same name.
|
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 5407
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 3:24 pm: | |
That isn't necessarily true. It's possible -- though I don't know -- that the most popular names represent a higher percentage than back when there was LESS diversity. It's not intuitive, but it's possible. In other words, the distribution of names could concentrate on a few popular names and then a larger-than-before list of unusual names. |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 3836
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 3:29 pm: | |
Carrie-
You may have set some sort of record as the first person in MOL history to start a controversy on a thread, get hammered & come back to say that you have learned something and can look at it from a different perspective.
You go, girl.
My response to you indicated my belief that most people who get disgruntled by immigrant issues are Native American |
Brett
Citizen
Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 1437
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 3:40 pm: | |
"One name is all this coach needs
Caitlin is such a popular name among teenage girls that Reno Galena High, according to NevadaPrep.com, used a starting lineup of four Caitlins and one Kaitlin on Tuesday night in a 65-30 basketball victory over Reno Damonte Ranch.
Imagine the confusion whenever Galena Coach Karen Friel called a starter by her first name.
But all the Caitlins and one Kaitlin did well, apparently.
" |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 3838
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 3:44 pm: | |
Is that like the movie Heathers? |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 5408
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 3:48 pm: | |
I understand that the Irish pronounce Caitlin the way we pronounce "Cathleen" because of the way the Irish language interprets the alphabet. |
ML
Supporter
Username: Ml1
Post Number: 2256
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 3:57 pm: | |
I had a friend at Rutgers named Mike, who lived in a university apartment with 4 other guys who were also named Mike.
A little diversity in names would have been a good thing a generation ago. |
Wendyn
Supporter
Username: Wendyn
Post Number: 1342
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 4:01 pm: | |
Tom, in theory you could be right but the Social Security website says otherwise. Obviously it depends on the number of babies born a given year, but even between 1990 and 2003 it is a huge difference:
2003 top 5 names and number of babies
1 Jacob 29195 Emily 25494
2 Michael 26991 Emma 22532
3 Joshua 24950 Madison 19986
4 Matthew 23706 Hannah 17393
5 Andrew 21852 Olivia 15982
1990 top 5 names and number of babies
1 Michael 66984 Jessica 47741
2 Christopher 53840 Ashley 46093
3 Matthew 45482 Brittany 36794
4 Joshua 44216 Amanda 34906
5 Daniel 35514 Sarah 26456
And note that in both cases there are many more boys with the most popular names than girls. Not sure how the actual stats of boys vs. girls born is, but I am guessing it is because people are much more likely to name their girls something unusual. Check out https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/babynames/
I know my husband wouldn't even consider something out of the top 100 for a boy, but neither of my girls' names are very popular (although not unusual). |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 3839
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 4:02 pm: | |
I knew two guys named Michael who decided to have a committment ceremony (this was 15 years ago) and legally change their surnames so that they would have the same last name.
I've lost track of them, but often wonder how that's worked out for them..... |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 5409
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 4:11 pm: | |
They are both sadists and masochists! |
ML
Supporter
Username: Ml1
Post Number: 2257
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 4:12 pm: | |
Neither I nor either of my sons has a name that's currently ranked higher than 66th in popularity. When I was a kid I didn't really like having a somewhat uncommon name, but by the time I was in high school I realized I liked having a name more distinctive than Mike, Jim, Bill, or Bob (not that there's anything wrong with any of those fine names  ).
I think my boys like being somewhat unique, although my younger son was very excited that the new boy in his class has the same name as him. |
shh
Citizen
Username: Shh
Post Number: 2150
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 4:18 pm: | |
The year my daughter was born (96) her first name was ranked #10 in popularity for boys and her middle name ranked #10 most popular for girls. Just yesterday someone from the Rec. Dept called and asked if we signed HIM up for baseball. Instead of explaining it, my husband said "thanks we will." This is why I always include their middle names...yes it's my own fault, but I love my girls' names. |
Lizziecat
Citizen
Username: Lizziecat
Post Number: 505
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 5:18 pm: | |
Remember the Dr. Seusss story about Mrs. McCave? She had twenty-three sons, and she named them all Dave... |
Carrie Avery
Citizen
Username: Carrie33
Post Number: 91
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 5:22 pm: | |
 |
ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 3337
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 9:14 pm: | |
My uncle Eddie had a group of high school friends named Ed, Ted, Ned, Red and Dave. |
shoshannah
Citizen
Username: Shoshannah
Post Number: 724
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 - 9:07 am: | |
Shh: I'm sure your daughter won't be in that predicament for long. Names that can be for boys or girls eventually fade as boys' names and become solely for girls. (For some strange reason I have an interest in this trend.) Example of names that have totally crossed the line in one form or another: Anne, Ashley, Leslie, Carol, Sydney, Mel, Kelley, Courtney. Names that now go either way but are inching toward obsoletion among boys: Jordan, Logan, Morgan, Corey/Cori, Kerry. |
Bobkat
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 7530
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 - 9:18 am: | |
My wife and I decided to forgo family traditions in naming our kids. Our daughter is Lauren and born in 1983 and our son is Andrew, born in 1986.
We thought we were being clever, but both names were really popular, at least here in MW and SO.
Our daughter became universally known as LaurenK throughout school because there were always several other Laurens in her school/class. The tough one was that there were two LaurenBs.
Ditto with Andrew. He was usually known by either our full last name of a dimmunitive of it.
Sometimes you can't win. 
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Wendyn
Supporter
Username: Wendyn
Post Number: 1345
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 - 9:45 am: | |
My husband liked Cameron as a name for a boy (wanted to call him Cam as in Cam Neely) until I told him that about 1/2 of Cameron babies were girls. Since any boy we had would probably be short and wussy (if genetics had anything to do with it) there was no way we would give him a name that could be male or female. Fortunately we had 2 girls.
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Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 5416
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 - 10:04 am: | |
And speaking of Jennifer 8 Lee, or at least we were, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_8._Lee |
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