| Author |
Message |
    
themp
Supporter
Username: Themp
Post Number: 1423
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 4:02 pm: | 
|
Over the weekend, Bush was asked how his plan would ensure that Social Security won't run out of money down the road. Here, straight from the White House Web site, is the president's answer in its entirety:
"Because the -- all which is on the table begins to address the big cost drivers. For example, how benefits are calculate, for example, is on the table; whether or not benefits rise based upon wage increases or price increases. There's a series of parts of the formula that are being considered. And when you couple that, those different cost drivers, affecting those -- changing those with personal accounts, the idea is to get what has been promised more likely to be -- or closer delivered to what has been promised.
"Does that make any sense to you? It's kind of muddled. Look, there's a series of things that cause the -- like, for example, benefits are calculated based upon the increase of wages, as opposed to the increase of prices. Some have suggested that we calculate -- the benefits will rise based upon inflation, as opposed to wage increases. There is a reform that would help solve the red if that were put into effect. In other words, how fast benefits grow, how fast the promised benefits grow, if those -- if that growth is affected, it will help on the red.
"Okay, better? I'll keep working on it."
It is so hard to give suggestive non-answers. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 5384
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 4:13 pm: |
|
I don't disagree with him, because I don't know what he was trying to say (or not say).
This trait, this inability to express himself, impresses people, how? |
Sgt. Pepper
Citizen
Username: Jjkatz
Post Number: 644
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 4:15 pm: |
|
And people call him an idiot. |
themp
Supporter
Username: Themp
Post Number: 1425
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 4:19 pm: |
|
He is always striving to suggest a lot without giving any details. You will hear for the next few months about things being "on the table" for instance. It just gets stuff out there without any facts or logic. He is an entirely emotional leader, yet he hates "fuzzy math". |
Robert Livingston
Citizen
Username: Rob_livingston
Post Number: 834
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 4:23 pm: |
|
Who else gets the feeling Social Security reform wasn't exactly his idea? What's worse: having an idiot for a president, or a puppet?
(And what about the White House's webmaster's vetting process? You'd think they'd at least TRY to clean up his answer...) |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 694
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 4:34 pm: |
|
Actually, I'd guess it's a violation of policy to change any direct quote on the whitehouse.gov site. Now, someone should be cleaning this stuff up, but don't blame the webmaster. 
And while this is a particularly egregious example, most people, when quoted directly from an off the cuff comment, will sound a little confused. |
themp
Supporter
Username: Themp
Post Number: 1428
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 9:47 pm: |
|
No, I reread this, and I got even more depressed about the prez. He sounds like that because he is sort of fiddling around, flipping through his deck of mental flashcards, trying to find the operative series of meaningless phrases. It is dissembling, rather than lying. It is this false, folksy dodge that he always uses. |
bottomline
Citizen
Username: Bottomline
Post Number: 179
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 7, 2005 - 10:37 pm: |
|
Rastro,
I not sure that most people would sound confused when quoted directly. Most of us would sound verbose -- ordinary conversation is certainly more rambling and repetitive than prepared remarks. But confusion is another matter.
I agree with Themp that Bush dissembles. He wanders mentally and talks past his audience, which I find very offensive. If a child were to do the same, a parent or teacher would gently ask the child to pause and collect his thoughts before continuing.
More important, even if the ordinary person rambles, most presidents don't. I'm thinking of the presidents of last 50 years or so. Not all were great orators like Kennedy or Reagan or Clinton. But none of them had trouble expressing themselves extemporaneously. Even Bush 41, while no champion toastmaster, has clear diction.
We deserve better.
|
notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 2016
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 10:20 am: |
|
I still ask myself how the country could have actually elected a guy who demonstrates every single day that he lacks the intelligence and competence necessary to be a proper President. |
Phenixrising
Citizen
Username: Phenixrising
Post Number: 405
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 10:39 am: |
|
Darnnit!
Can't help it if yawl don't get what I'm saying. Gosh…being a "puppet" is HARD WORK! 
GW Bush |
bottomline
Citizen
Username: Bottomline
Post Number: 180
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 10:41 am: |
|
Notehead,
I'm a Dem but I wouldn't agree that Bush lacks intelligence, reluctant though I am to throw any praise in his direction.
I think Tom Reingold's observation, above, is on target. Somehow, Bush's lack of clarity impresses a significant portion of the electorate. It's an amazing phenomenon, isn't it?
|
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 5395
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 10:53 am: |
|
Right, we have gone beyond not caring how good he is at expressing himself. We (collectively) like him more because he is so bad at it. That is what is so mind-boggling. |
notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 2017
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 11:04 am: |
|
I dunno, bottomline... when I say "Bush is a moron" I don't mean it literally, of course, but I think his mental chops are sub-par for the office. My impression is that virtually all previous presidents demonstrated more intelligence, a better grasp of complex information, more intellectual curiousity, etc.
But I do agree about the lack of clarity. |
Michael Janay
Citizen
Username: Childprotect
Post Number: 1538
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 12:14 pm: |
|
You people make fun of HIS intelligence??
"Because the -- all which is on the table begins to address the big cost drivers.
Simple enough to me... everything is on the table to address big cost drivers.
For example, how benefits are calculate, for example, is on the table;
whether or not benefits rise based upon wage increases or price increases.
There's a series of parts of the formula that are being considered.
How hard is that to understand? He wants to change how benefits are calculated, from wage increases to price increases. Several things are being considered.
And when you couple that, those different cost drivers, affecting those -- changing those with personal accounts, the idea is to get what has been promised more likely to be -- or closer delivered to what has been promised.
So changing what is costing SSI too much now with personal accounts frees up money to deliver what has been promised... instead of SS going bankrupt.
"Does that make any sense to you? It's kind of muddled.
I know you hate straight talk, it is hare for dems and libs to understand.
Look, there's a series of things that cause the -- like, for example, benefits are calculated based upon the increase of wages, as opposed to the increase of prices.
How is that not clear? Maybe he should have added that wages increase far faster than prices, but its an off the cuff remark.
Some have suggested that we calculate -- the benefits will rise based upon inflation, as opposed to wage increases. There is a reform that would help solve the red if that were put into effect.
Solving the above problem.
Are you people to dumb to understand what "the red" is? Anyone in business sure does.
In other words, how fast benefits grow, how fast the promised benefits grow, if those -- if that growth is affected, it will help on the red.
So slowing benefit growth slows losses to the system.
What Bush said makes perfect sense. and I have no doubt that anyone watching or listening to him say it understood it very clearly.
Anyone with the slightest bit of mental acuity that is. So, I'm not suprised that some of you here didn't get it. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 5403
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 12:18 pm: |
|
Are you people to dumb to understand what "the red" is? Anyone in business sure does.
No, I'm not dumb, but I would be if I discussed this with you, since you insult those you argue with. I'm not dumb enough to reward that. |
twig
Citizen
Username: Twig
Post Number: 144
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 12:19 pm: |
|
Sounds as though the President is having a hard time articulating this important component of his "weapons of middle-class destruction" policy? What's next...will we be hearing Greenspan refer to the privatization policy as a "slam dunk"? |
tjohn
Citizen
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 2915
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 12:19 pm: |
|
My opinions:
I don't believe Bush is stupid.
I do believe he would be some mid-level manager had he been born average, middle-class.
I do believe that if I spoke the way he does, my company wouldn't allow me out of the back office.
As an orator, Bush is unlikely to be confused with Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, Winston Churchill or Adolf Hilter any time soon. |
Phenixrising
Citizen
Username: Phenixrising
Post Number: 406
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 12:31 pm: |
|
I do believe that if I spoke the way he does, my company wouldn't allow me out of the back office.
much less speak or represent the company .
I think it's clever of Bush by making it this far and having some folks believing in this rhetoric that makes no sense. 
|
Robert Livingston
Citizen
Username: Rob_livingston
Post Number: 835
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 12:37 pm: |
|
Janay: It's not just what Bush says, it's how he, uh, says--like, for instance, he sounds, how do ya put it, confused about his own policies. Which is why he needed that earplug during the debates. |
themp
Supporter
Username: Themp
Post Number: 1432
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 1:07 pm: |
|
Joshua Marshall: Do you think it's fair for Democrats or reporters or anybody else to use the word "privatization" or "private accounts" to describe the President's policy?
Luntz: I think it's fair for Democrats to do so.
Marshall: Why not the press?
Luntz: Because it's not - the press is making a pejorative statement.
Marshall and others: But the President used that.
Luntz: Used that [heavy emphasis on the past tense of "used"].
The Al Franken Show
Interview with Frank Luntz
January 25, 2005
Yes, it's a very important point she made. The private account -- the private retirement accounts alone don't fix Social Security. They are part of a larger solution. And that's what's important to know. It's just the fact that you can earn better rates of return within a private account that it makes it -- that it helps mitigate the other changes in the system that will be necessary to eradicate the red ink.
George W. Bush
Town Meeting in Tampa, Fla.
February 4, 2005
|
Ukealalio
Citizen
Username: Ukealalio
Post Number: 1815
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 3:46 pm: |
|
Hey lay off the Prez, he just doesn't think quickly on his feet (or off of em). |
Closed: New threads not accepted on this page