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maplewood fan
Citizen
Username: Mplwfan
Post Number: 148
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 4:40 pm: | 
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Why is the man with the title of pope so eager to use Modern Medicine to stay alive - shouldn't he be eager to meet his lord and saviour? As far as his position on Gay Marriage it's worth about as much to me as his position on anything else - ZERO! |
Strawman
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 4588
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 5:02 pm: |
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shut up...what a stupid thing to say... |
Chris Prenovost
Citizen
Username: Chris_prenovost
Post Number: 359
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 5:04 pm: |
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A couple of points. . .
Bash the Pope all you want over gay marriage, but remember all the good he has done, starting with his role in the collapse of communism. Without bloodshed, I might add.
And be careful what you wish for. If he dies, Cardinal Ratzinger is well placed to succeed him. And Ratzinger maker Pope John Paul II look like a left wing euro-weenie. The universal church is not full of starry-eyed reformers.
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Walker
Citizen
Username: Fester
Post Number: 67
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 5:10 pm: |
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He is still the head of an organization that by their own actions have effectively condoned the rape of children around the world by their own representatives. That completely negates any good either he or the organization have done. |
Innisowen
Citizen
Username: Innisowen
Post Number: 513
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 5:22 pm: |
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Chris:
I'd lay odds that the next time the College of Cardinals sends out the smoke and says "Habemus papam," the college will have elected someone from South or Central America, Africa, or Asia... Ratzinger and other Europeans and Americans will work the politics, and a pope from the most populous and heretofore neglected parts of the world will work the crowd... |
Bettina
Citizen
Username: Bettina
Post Number: 34
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 6:05 pm: |
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Re: "bash the pope all you want over gay marriage". How are we bashing him because we're disagreeing with a position which we, well I, deem harmful to a large segment of the population? I would guess gays might feel "bashed" by having their desires to be treated like human beings likened to an "ideology of evil". Please. |
sbenois
Citizen
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 13252
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 10:14 pm: |
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Well I'm going to be saying a little private prayer for his speedy recovery regardless of his positions on various issues.
He is the leader of the Catholic Church and he deserves respect. |
Montagnard
Citizen
Username: Montagnard
Post Number: 1437
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 10:43 pm: |
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It's a shame he has to end his life on such a bizarre and irrational note. |
CFA
Citizen
Username: Cfa
Post Number: 1308
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 4:02 am: |
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Sbenois,
You're absolutely correct, he does deserve respect, but so do I. |
maplewood fan
Citizen
Username: Mplwfan
Post Number: 149
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 10:38 am: |
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PULL THE PLUG! |
overtaxdalready
Citizen
Username: Overtaxdalready
Post Number: 351
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 11:51 am: |
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Hey Maplewood "fan"...do you put "be stupid" at the top of your to-do list each and every day? |
Walker
Citizen
Username: Fester
Post Number: 68
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 11:54 am: |
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Respect is earned not deserved, anything he has done to earn respect has been canceled out by the of the rape of children on his watch. |
Chris Prenovost
Citizen
Username: Chris_prenovost
Post Number: 360
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 12:06 pm: |
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Innisowen, Walker & Bettina:
In no way am I condoning the Pope's attempts to shove the pedophilia issues under the rug. Nor am I defending his defense of indefensible positions. I am merely saying that we need to look at the big picture.
People slam President Clinton as the antichrist because he is arguably the most corrupt President in the history of the Republic. But he left us at peace, with a healthy economy, and a budget surplus to boot.
Look at both sides of the ledger. And I hope you will concur that he has been a pretty good pope, certain issues notwithstanding. |
Guy
Supporter
Username: Vandalay
Post Number: 564
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 12:18 pm: |
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Walker, if that is your position on the Pope, I shudder to think what you feel should be done with Kofi Annan. Children were raped on his watch also. |
Walker
Citizen
Username: Fester
Post Number: 69
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 12:42 pm: |
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Those who perpetrate theses crimes against children and those who assist them in covering up these crimes either to protect the perpetrator or to protect the organization the perpetrator belongs to should be punished to the full extent of the law, regardless of their position.
What makes the Popes position more precarious than Kofi’s is that this has been going on unchecked it the Catholic church for generations with nothing or very little being done to prevent it and from where I stand at least for no other reason than to protect their image. At least the UN have launched an investigation and the offending people are being brought up on charges. The Catholic churches response in most cases is to move the perpetrator to another parish.
Even after the scandal broke they persist in these practices.
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mjc
Citizen
Username: Mjc
Post Number: 292
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 12:47 pm: |
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I see John Paul in heaven standing in front of Jesus. Jesus has his hands on his hips and looks stern. John Paul is slapping himself on the forehead and saying Oh! I didn't get what you wanted me to do for gays!
I'm sure I'll be slapping my forehead about a LOT of stuff, if I'm privileged to arrive there. John Paul IMHO has a lot on the positive side of his ledger, including as noted above a share of the credit for freedom in eastern Europe, plus concern for economic justice, plus one of my all-time favorite photos, of him visiting in prison the young man who shot him. Not a perfect score; in some areas, including his outlook on women and gays, he's remained a product of his generation and upbringing, leaving a lot of us grinding our teeth.
As for the crimes against children, no excuses for those who tried to sweep the scandals under the rug, they deserve all the disgrace that can be heaped on them, along with criminal convictions where warranted; but is John Paul among them? |
Walker
Citizen
Username: Fester
Post Number: 70
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 12:52 pm: |
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How is he not he is the head of the organization that has allowed this to continue. By his inaction he has implicated himself. There are no excuses. |
Guy
Supporter
Username: Vandalay
Post Number: 565
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 1:10 pm: |
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Walker, if this has been going on for generations, Pope John Paul is the first Pope to lay down a policy against it. This abuse happened in my own parish with teenage boys that I knew. I always felt that the Bishops in the Achdiocese were the real problem. The priest was merely transfered. Tough to say how much of these actions the Pope actually knew about. |
wharfrat
Citizen
Username: Wharfrat
Post Number: 1610
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 1:32 pm: |
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quote:People slam President Clinton as the antichrist because he is arguably the most corrupt President in the history of the Republic.
Chris-
I always thought Nixon was the most "corrupt" President in history.
Remember "Watergate".
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Walker
Citizen
Username: Fester
Post Number: 71
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 2:55 pm: |
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Guy;
Anyone can put a policy in place. The church took no action to prevent further abuse of its followers children until after it became widely publicized, this from an organization that keeps very tight ranks.
To say and I quote "Tough to say how much of these actions the Pope actually knew about" is naive at best, of course he knows what is going on but lets take it a step further even if he did not have knowledge of the actions at the time why has no action been taken against those who covered it up?
This smacks of complicity all the way to the top.
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Sgt. Pepper
Citizen
Username: Jjkatz
Post Number: 712
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 4:12 pm: |
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Chris -- come on about Clinton. They "investigated" him for 8 years and the only thing they could get him on was lying about getting a BJ.
Compare that with Nixon, Reagan (how does a BJ compare with secretly selling weapons to a terrorist country), or LBJ (who made no secret of the fact that he could be bought). |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 3194
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 9:23 pm: |
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Sgt is right. And technically, allowing Loral Space to sell technology and advise China how to keep their nuclear warheads aloft and accurately targeted really wasn't entirely against the law, especially when clearance was moved away from national security auspices and into the Commerce Department run by Ron Brown with his trusty sidekick John Huang. That's not illegal. So Clinton's only real crime was perjury.
And about Kofi -- to say "well, at least they're conducting an investigation" -- the record shows that initial investigations by the UN CLEARED oil for food, sex harassment by Luud Rubbers in the refugee office, and I think the rapes in the Congo. It was only through repeated public pressure that re-investigations took place. Kofi was brilliant with Rwanda too. How many people did the Pope kill? |
Montagnard
Citizen
Username: Montagnard
Post Number: 1442
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 9:47 pm: |
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Thousands (maybe hundreds of thousands) of women who could not obtain either birth control or safe and legal abortions.
Comfortable in his sanctimony as his victims went to their bloody and painful deaths. |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 3196
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 9:53 pm: |
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The Pope didn't kill any of those women. |
Montagnard
Citizen
Username: Montagnard
Post Number: 1443
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 1:14 am: |
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Saddam pulled no triggers. Pinochet never set foot in a prison. Lyndon Johnson dropped no napalm and Richard Nixon couldn't tell Agent Orange from a tangerine... |
Sgt. Pepper
Citizen
Username: Jjkatz
Post Number: 718
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 2:56 pm: |
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Actually I think Saddam was known to pull a trigger on occasion. |
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