| Author | Message | ||
     Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 5620 Registered: 1-2003  |
thoughtful, your 3:56 post doesn't make a lot of sense to me. It seems to imply that unless a person takes perfect care of his health, he has no right to complain about what others do that affect his health or comfort. And you know that isn't true. | ||
| mrmaplewood Citizen Username: Mrmaplewood Post Number: 156 Registered: 5-2001 |
Brett Pub is short for public house. How did a public house become private? | ||
| Dave Moderator Username: Dave Post Number: 5352 Registered: 4-1998  |
Here's a scenario I could deal with. Imagine if when you drink wine everyone within a 10' radius gets a little bit of it. Works well with Barolo and not so well with Boone's Farm. | ||
| thoughtful Citizen Username: Thoughtful Post Number: 157 Registered: 6-2001 |
Tom, You may have inferred that; I didn't imply it.  I'm questioning why we want to persecute smokers. If it's for health reasons, why not target other unhealthy habits that affect other people that could, arguably, affect our health more dramatically than second hand smoke? If it's an aesthetic thing, i.e. "my clothes stink the next day", why not ban perfumes? If it's simply disgusting, why not ban hairy-legged Irishmen who play disgusting bagpipe music around this time of year? | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 5622 Registered: 1-2003 |
I still don't see the analogy between eating fried foods and smoking. I don't suffer when you eat fried foods, but I do when you smoke. I won't put forth the "disgusting" argument, for the reason you cite. Everything is disgusting in someone's eyes. I forgot his name, but a big anti-smoking activist said, "your right to swing your fist ends at my nose." That's why the fried food analogy doesn't fit. | ||
| jamie Moderator Username: Jamie Post Number: 788 Registered: 6-2001  |
thoughtful - nothing you listed contains 69 chemical compounds that are known cause cancer. | ||
| notehead Supporter Username: Notehead Post Number: 2095 Registered: 5-2001  |
Count me in for banning smoking in public places, Jamie! I don't want to have to go all the way to NYC to hang out in a smoke-free pub. I don't want to ban smoking entirely; that is not within the bounds of government's role. But if you accept that government's foremost purpose is protection, you should accept that the government should outlaw smoking in public places, just as it outlaws assault. Are there other common practices that may pose a genuine hazard to bystanders? Perhaps. Let's deal with those one at a time, AFTER public smoking is banned. | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 1927 Registered: 5-2001  |
Maybe we should ban fireplaces, refineries and diesel trucks...all of which emit a multitude of toxins, I'm sure. | ||
| thoughtful Citizen Username: Thoughtful Post Number: 158 Registered: 6-2001 |
Jamie, Is it the number of chemical compounds that determines what is banned? If pipe smoke contains 67 chemical compounds that are known to cause cancer, is that okay? And what about exposure levels? If someone is by the bathroom smoking a cigaratte at the Gate and you're by the front door, is that okay? I'm sure you see what I'm getting at. I find it reactionary and discriminatory to ban smoking on the basis that it might cause you harm. That's the real difference between the punch in the nose and cigarette smoke: one will cause you harm, the other increases your chances that you will suffer harm. To me, that's not the same thing. And just so you know, I don't smoke. In fact, I loathe the whole idea of smoking. I just don't like the idea of demonizing smokers. Why is it okay to improve our quality of life at the expense of another's? | ||
| jamie Moderator Username: Jamie Post Number: 789 Registered: 6-2001 |
So you're admitting that this measure will "improve our quality of life"? At least we agree on that. You said: "I find it reactionary and discriminatory to ban smoking on the basis that it might cause you harm." - Let's take me out of the picture - a ban of smoking will improve the quality of life for smokers and non-smokers. I have a few friends who smoke and can't stand smelling like an ashtray. A ban may also encourage people not to spend $7 a day supporting Phillip-Morris. As for smoking in general - if you knew of something would eventually kill a third of the people who use it, isn't this something we want to get rid of. Tobacco kills more Americans than AIDS, drugs, homicides, fires, and auto accidents combined. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 5625 Registered: 1-2003 |
thoughtful, to paraphrase your words, why is it okay to worsen the quality of life for the enjoyment of others? | ||
| luv2cruise Citizen Username: Luv2cruise Post Number: 324 Registered: 12-2002 |
fluger....that was a retarded post. | ||
| Hank Zona Citizen Username: Hankzona Post Number: 2044 Registered: 3-2002 |
and your reply didnt quite rise to its level then. | ||
| lumpyhead Citizen Username: Lumpyhead Post Number: 1132 Registered: 3-2002 |
Where are real facts that 2nd hand smoking IS harmful to someone's health? I am sure it is in very large quantities day after day but not worse than walking down Madison Avenue with a NYC bus going by. People want it banned because it personally bothers them then they use the health angle as a good reason. I wish everyone would quit. Smoking doesn't bother me. Banning everything you don't like or agree with does. | ||
| Carrie Avery Citizen Username: Carrie33 Post Number: 136 Registered: 1-2005  |
Good point "lumpyhead"( mmm interesting name) I would suppose then people would have to find a way to eliminate cars, too, because of the horrors it will inflict upon the air and the lungs. Goodness, what will be next? People wearing masks everywhere they go.Smoking isn't healthy, but so isn't alot of things that affect people where ever we go in life., whether we are aware of it or not. How about those people who bump into us and cough without covering their mouths? How about all the germs that get passed on through handling money? The list can be very long. | ||
| flugermongers Citizen Username: Flugermongers Post Number: 378 Registered: 5-2001 |
Thoughtful, just because other things (you didn't name any, but I'm thinking toxic dumping, etc) that affect health haven't been banned, doesn't mean that they shouldn't be, and that smoking shouldn't be. Luv2Cruise, is it? Why was my post "retarded?" And yeah, my sentiments exactly, HankZona, thanks. | ||
| flugermongers Citizen Username: Flugermongers Post Number: 379 Registered: 5-2001 |
And to MichaelJanay, I'm not sure where you got your medical information, but being exposed to second hand smoke is a medical risk, even if you're not in a smoke filled room for the evening. I used to smoke. I don't freak out if I get a bit of smoke on me and think I'm going to die, but the threat is real. Just like you open your windows in traffic to avoid breathing the chemicals and carbon monoxide from the car in front of you, so I avoid smokers in places of business and on the street. It would be much nicer if they weren't there. And if we all had magic hovercrafts (or electric cars). | ||
| lumpyhead Citizen Username: Lumpyhead Post Number: 1133 Registered: 3-2002 |
Please post absolute facts and finding of deaths and injuries caused by normal 2nd hand smoke. By normal I mean not over the top. I was raised in a house where my parents smoked cigarettes and pipes. It was a drafty house though! | ||
| jamie Moderator Username: Jamie Post Number: 790 Registered: 6-2001 |
lumpy writes "I was raised in a house where my parents smoked cigarettes and pipes" So you must have built up a pretty good tolerance for it! Lucky you! | ||
| jamie Moderator Username: Jamie Post Number: 791 Registered: 6-2001 |
Here's some info on second hand smoking: http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35422 But I'm concerned with first hand smoking as well. A statewide ban may encourage many people to quit. Tobacco companies make a product that kills 1,200 Americans a day. Does anyone encourage smoking? Is any type of smoking healthy for you? Please post data saying it is. |
