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Message |
    
Dego Diva
Citizen
Username: Fmingione
Post Number: 276
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 1, 2005 - 12:56 pm: | 
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"let's not paint students with a broad brush."
Oh my goodness - a disturbance on the WEST side of town???? Caused by kids no less??
If this had happened on the East side of town folks would be blaming it on gangs and saying that Maplewood is going down the drain, and how badly we need more police. So why isn't this incident being taken THAT seriously? Paint it as a bunch of girls "rough-housing" if you want, but it's vandalism folks. The cops need to get involved, and whomever did it needs to be held responsible.
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AlleyGater
Citizen
Username: Alleygater
Post Number: 121
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 1, 2005 - 12:58 pm: |
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Dave, I'd rather not have cameras all over town. Thanks anyway. I've read my Orwell and I could do without 1984. In the post 9/11 age, I could use a little bit more privacy, not less. That darn Patriot act has taken enough of our civil liberties as is. |
SoOrLady
Citizen
Username: Soorlady
Post Number: 1816
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 1, 2005 - 1:09 pm: |
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Diva - I define vandalism as damage caused by intent. I doubt that these kids decided to smash the window on purpose. Yes, if we locate them, they need to be held accountable and find a way to pay for the damage, but let's not call them criminals and throw them in the pokey. |
Valentine Michael Smith
Citizen
Username: Umbert
Post Number: 87
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 1, 2005 - 1:16 pm: |
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On a side note, I'm just curious...
Does this particular pet store sell puppies and kittens?
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D.
Moderator
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5425
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 1, 2005 - 1:23 pm: |
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Hmm. I don't see the Orwell parallel. In 1984 only the leaders had the power to view what's happening. With webcams, everyone has equal access to the same information. Public-accessible cameras may be the only hope to prevent a 1984 world. |
hariseldon
Citizen
Username: Hariseldon
Post Number: 283
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 1, 2005 - 1:45 pm: |
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I don't believe the store sells dogs and cats, just rodests and fish and supplies. I wouldn't say that it might not of been vandalism, the kids at the Library deliberatly smashed the glass rear door a few weeks ago. |
jamie
Moderator
Username: Jamie
Post Number: 808
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 1, 2005 - 1:47 pm: |
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no puppies or kittens. They have hamsters - guinea pigs - fish - birds plus pet supplies. |
Valentine Michael Smith
Citizen
Username: Umbert
Post Number: 88
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 1, 2005 - 2:21 pm: |
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Thanks. I thought maybe it might have been a bunch of angst ridden/animal rights/activist teens, angry with a pet store that gets it's pets from puppy mills. But it doesn't appear to be that kind of pet store, which is good.
On another note... this "AlleyGater" must be up to some criminal activity that she doesn't want caught on camera. Why else would she protest cameras that make our environment safer? Plus she is also against the patriot act which makes her (him?) a terrorist.
I say we arrest her now before she can do any harm.
angry mob anyone? |
AlleyGater
Citizen
Username: Alleygater
Post Number: 124
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 1, 2005 - 3:02 pm: |
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Dave,
It is very Orwellian to have cameras everywhere and to have our neighbors spying on and reporting eachother to the authorities.
Valentine,
I sure hope what you wrote was sarcasm. It is not unamerican to want to preserve our civil liberties. |
Phenixrising
Citizen
Username: Phenixrising
Post Number: 445
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 1, 2005 - 3:06 pm: |
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I doubt that these kids decided to smash the window on purpose.
Your probably right…but they did run from the scene.
Regardless, it was a reckless act even tho not intentional and they should be held accountable. |
cmontyburns
Citizen
Username: Cmontyburns
Post Number: 725
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 1, 2005 - 3:31 pm: |
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I assume these kids were from Irvington and work at nail salons and shop at 99 cent stores and own wind chimes.
You know, real bad apples.
I guarantee none of those kids was from my Montrose neighborhood, or any other house with granite countertops in the kitchen. |
Valentine Michael Smith
Citizen
Username: Umbert
Post Number: 89
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 1, 2005 - 3:53 pm: |
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It was extra sarcasm. |
D.
Moderator
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5428
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 1, 2005 - 4:01 pm: |
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Alley,
I think cameras will be everywhere in cities and suburbs regardless of how much we don't want it to be so. The best thing to do, then, is ensure the widest group possible can monitor them rather than a select few. I think it would reduce crime, too, because the cameras would more likely have active watchers than simply be recording things. Easier to stop crimes in progress, etc. |
AlleyGater
Citizen
Username: Alleygater
Post Number: 125
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 1, 2005 - 4:48 pm: |
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There are tons of video cameras everywhere already. But I don't want to assume that it is ok for them to be there. If we don't want them encroaching upon our rights then we need to speak up. I just don't agree with passively accepting these things which you consider inevitable. Will it lower crimes? Possibly. But is that a price your willing to pay? People will prey upon your fears, and at first you'll be willing to give up a bit of your rights willingly. But as the hysterical, irrational momentum is going and legislature is being passed quickly (without your say) who knows what will happen. By then it might be too late, and you might be considered unamerican for trying to speak up. I heard a horrible story about a left-wing news reporter (Amy Goodman from Democracy Now) getting thoroughly harrassed while trying to fly back into the country. Airport security demanded she be strip searched, probed and prodded, and then they demanded she get irradiated. When she refused they made her miss the flight. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't let myself be irradiated. You can thank the Patriot Act for that sort of thing. When did this sort of thing become acceptable? Welcome to the post 9/11 reality. I have seen how this sort of thing spirals out of control. I wish it would stop. A broken window I can deal with. Beauracratic hell and loss of our civil liberties, that I don't know how to deal with. |
Lydia
Supporter
Username: Lydial
Post Number: 962
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 1, 2005 - 6:10 pm: |
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I was in a different store today in Maplewood village and the store owner asked if I was the Lydia who posted here about the broken window in the pet store.
He said that rowdy kids have been a problem for a long time and the shopowners are very concerned. It's not just the occasional broken window, it's also the trash they leave and the general vibe of no control.
I don't know if the window-breaking was intentional or an accident. When the group left the scene, it became vandalism IMO.
Once we have to rely on cameras the battle is over and we lost.
Parents have to be aware and kids have to be responsible. Because middle school age kids don't always exercise common sense, parents or any adult who sees kids involved in vandalism or dangerous behavior owe it to the community and the safety of our children and our businesses to speak up.
If the break wasn't confined to one area and quarter-inch thick plate glass fell down on these kids, it could have been fatal. |
Dego Diva
Citizen
Username: Fmingione
Post Number: 277
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 1, 2005 - 6:40 pm: |
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"let's not call them criminals"
SoOrLady, when you cause damage to someone else's property, and leave the scene without somehow taking responsibility, you're a criminal.
Again, I really have to wonder if this would be taken so lightly if it happened at any of the businesses on Springfield Ave. |
johnny
Citizen
Username: Johnny
Post Number: 1201
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 1, 2005 - 7:12 pm: |
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Kids roaming the streets of "downtown" is nothing new. Just drive around any weekend night during the summer and the place is swarming with kids with nothing to do.
Cops don't seem to be too concerned about it. |
Case
Citizen
Username: Case
Post Number: 7
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 1, 2005 - 8:10 pm: |
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For the most part, the kids downtown are reasonably well behaved. A little loud? A little annoying? Well... of course - they're kids. But something getting broken is really unacceptable, and I hope this situation gets resolved. |
Lydia
Supporter
Username: Lydial
Post Number: 965
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 1, 2005 - 8:16 pm: |
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I grew up in a college town - 5 colleges if you're counting.
My town never had broken store windows - this with thousands of drunk under 22's and hundreds of under 17's milling around in herds drunk and sober.
Dismissing the problem as par for the course says it all.
We have a downtown gasping for air and people scratch their heads and wonder why businesses leave. Here's a clue - Chatham, Millburn, Hoboken, Edgewater, Basking Ridge, Westfield...I could go on. They don't smash picture windows in those towns - do a Google search to be extra sure.
For some insane reason Maplewood some MOL posters seem to think vandalism is rite of passage.
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cmontyburns
Citizen
Username: Cmontyburns
Post Number: 726
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 1, 2005 - 8:44 pm: |
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No one is dismissing anything. It's just that any time anything remotely bad happens around here, it is immediately labeled an epidemic.
"They don't smash picture windows in those towns." First, a moment of silence for what has become my new favorite quote from the message board. Now then: I guarantee isolated incidents of window breaking (which is exactly what this case in Maplewood is) have happened in every town. Just because it isn't in a Google search doesn't mean it never happened.
The notion that businesses are being driven from town by thuggish middle schoolers is ridiculous. Businesses are being driven from town because our houses cost $600,000 -- and the rents in quaint little Maplewood Village have rocketed to match.
(By the way, Lydia, be careful before you talk about how safe "college towns" are. Come on over to the Seton Hall thread and you'll see how those drunk, out of control students are destroying civilization as we know it.)
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to drive over to Chatham, Millburn, Hoboken, Edgewater, Basking Ridge and Westfield (you forgot Short Hills!) to even the score.
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Chris Prenovost
Citizen
Username: Chris_prenovost
Post Number: 366
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 1, 2005 - 9:17 pm: |
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cmontyburns, you are missing her point.
We cannot and should not excuse this away. Ever heard of what the police and sociologists call the 'broken glass theory'? One small act of vandalism, left unchecked, leads to the impression that there is no one in charge and the problem spirals. Think of the NYC subway back in the seventies.
And to repeat Lydia's most pressing question: Where were the parents? Too busy to look after their kids, I suppose. |
Chris Prenovost
Citizen
Username: Chris_prenovost
Post Number: 367
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 1, 2005 - 9:21 pm: |
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BTW, in the interest of full disclosure, my eldest daughter works at the pet store. |
Parkbench87
Citizen
Username: Parkbench87
Post Number: 1777
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 1, 2005 - 9:53 pm: |
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Do we even know all the facts about the what happened at the Pet Store? A whole bunch of assumptions are being made even though all the facts don't seem to be in. |
SoOrLady
Citizen
Username: Soorlady
Post Number: 1817
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 1, 2005 - 10:16 pm: |
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Diva - they're kids..and after the glass shattered they were most likely scared kids... and when kids are scared they usually use poor judgement. Should they knock on Bill's door and accept the blame.. sure.. and maybe a guilty conscience will win out and they will.. too soon to tell.
Lydia - you usually have sound and reasonable posts.. but not this time.. Maplewood is "gasping for air" because the landlords are choking the tenents with high rents.
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Reflective
Citizen
Username: Reflective
Post Number: 782
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 1, 2005 - 11:42 pm: |
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The pet store owner lets a 10 foot boa constrictor loose at night to catch mice.
Did it escape? Is that why the young ladies ran?
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Lydia
Supporter
Username: Lydial
Post Number: 966
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 2, 2005 - 2:20 am: |
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Parkbench,
I started this thread after speaking with the pet store owner, I didn't post assumptions.
Chris, thanks for helping clarify. I was going to mantion the "broken glass theory", it's just too perfect for this situation.
SoOrlady -
I completely agree that our downtown is suffering because of high rents, but that's only one symptom in a stew of little problems that contribute to a downtown business climate that needs help to thrive.
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Parkbench87
Citizen
Username: Parkbench87
Post Number: 1781
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 2, 2005 - 9:19 am: |
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Lydia,
I'm not saying that you posted assummtions. But others have taken this on different tangents and made assumptions about who these students are . I'm assuming the store owner didn't witness the incident. My question then is is how was the scenario you described verified?
Look I agree that the behavior of some teens who frequent the Village needs to be altered, and I guarantee you that if I found out that my children were behaving that way it would quickly be brought to a halt. However I think we need to keep this in perspective and not paint all teens with a broad brush.
Again I think we need a police officer on the beat in town on weekend nights. |
SoOrLady
Citizen
Username: Soorlady
Post Number: 1819
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 2, 2005 - 9:39 am: |
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Parkbench - I couldn't agree more. And, I'm puzzeled.. was there no one in that area at 10 p.m? Does anyone feel an obligation to speak up and stop the roudiness before the glass is shattered? I'd like to think I would have approached the group either before or after the incident. What about the rest of you? |
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