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Message |
    
L'Angelo Misterioso
Citizen
Username: Misterioso
Post Number: 36
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 2:01 am: | 
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Dave, I'm not sure (based on your cite) that Moldow applies to what I was saying. By removing and/or censoring only SOME offensive posts, and suspending only SOME offensive posters, you're exercising not only administrative, but also editorial control.
It isn't that you are allowing personal criticism to take place, since that's pretty clearly allowed by Moldow. My point (and it is not, I admit, related to the present lawsuit against you, Jamie, et al.) is that you sometimes allow personal criticism and ad hominem attacks, at other times you alter and/or remove them, and at still others you remove posts AND suspend users. Because you sometimes do these things and at other times you don't, you at least give the appearance of taking sides - in effect endorsing some personal attacks. It moves you from laissez-faire conduit to participant. And that's where you really ARE vulnerable. Or so it seems to me. |
nan
Citizen
Username: Nan
Post Number: 1878
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 7:00 am: |
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just me,
My only point was that if you are going to ban people for personal attacks, it would be helpful to have explicit direction about what is a personal attack and to know that the rules are applied consistently and without favoritism.
That's clearly not the case on this board.
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D.
Citizen
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5572
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 7:14 am: |
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Same as court's interpretation of CDA in Moldow. Basically, Congress wants ISPs to self-regulate. Anything short of the ISP owner personally using defamatory speech against someone is permitted. I can take sides, switch sides, even do long division. If a third party posts defamatory content, that party is vulnerable and can have legal action brought against them and the plaintiff could issue a subpeona to get an IP address from the ISP, but plaintiff has no legal case against the ISP directly for having the content on its server even if editorial control is used. Deleting and banning are common ISP practices that have been used since the Well arrived in '85. CDA is a good law.
Bans are rare and only last a week, so it's not like they're severe. People can even register another username. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 7890
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 7:18 am: |
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Unfortunately, trying to get people banned from MOL has become nothing more than an attempt to get posters you don't agree with thrown out.
Eveyone who has been banned from time to time views their banishment as unfair.
The worst thing from a free speech point of view is for Dave to start banning people because the Nans and the Harpos don't like their posts and because many here lack both a sense of humor and the ability to understand hyperbol, often used to make a point. |
nan
Citizen
Username: Nan
Post Number: 1880
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 9:15 am: |
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What bothers me is that only banning some and not others creates a situation of protection for certain people and open season on others. |
Lydia
Supporter
Username: Lydial
Post Number: 981
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 9:24 am: |
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Harpo outs people and posts their first and surnames, and then cravenly signs with her first (common) name as if that evens the playing board.
Of course Harpo knows who Mem is.
As long as Harpo has started the way-back machine, I recall Mr. Harpo took Mem out to lunch the last time Harpo attacked Mem and Mem's family on MOL.
BTW - I don't see how anyone could construe "little vipers" to be taken seriously, think WC Fields not Joan Crawford.
Harpo's nastiness and relentless stalking of posters both on MOL and in real life is the problem here, not a post Mem made years ago that Harpo twisted out of context.
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nan
Citizen
Username: Nan
Post Number: 1881
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 2:10 pm: |
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Bobk,
Before I forget--it needs to be pointed out that Harpo did not ask for anyone to be banned.
Lydia,
Your post is so full of off-the-wall insinuations it caused me to actually e-mail Harpo with a copy of your post. You look as if you are trying to suggest that there was something going on between Mem and Harpo's husband which although ridiculous (I know all the parties) is a horrible thing to suggest on a message board--especially when the people involved cannot even respond. It made me think you were not a very nice person to have written that, no matter how much you wanted to defend your "friend."
Harpo e-mailed this back to me and I have her permission to post it:
quote:There is no "Mr. Harpo." My husband met [mem] at a party organized by Dave Ross sometime in 2000. After 9/11, [mem] approached my husband on the morning train into Manhattan, wanting to talk about what had happened on Sept. 11, since she knows he's a foreign policy analyst. Since he had to do work on the train and didn't have time to talk, he suggested they have lunch sometime later that week. [mem] picked a sushi place. The day of the scheduled lunch turned out to be the day that [mem's] father published a letter in the News-Record falsely accusing the Mayor of various stuff. On MOL, I strongly criticized the language used in the letter as well as the false allegations and got attacked by several of [mem's] sisters. My husband had not seen MOL when he and [mem] had the sushi lunch. In the ensuing days, [mem] and I exchanged several friendly e-mails, which I may still have and could post if I could post -- although I doubt her sisters would appreciate it. Sometime later, [mem] called my husband asking him to help her get a job where he works. He referred her to someone else in Maplewood who does that sort of thing.
So much for that. As for the rest of Lydia's post, does she ever get anything right? The humorless thread in question was started by [mem] on Oct. 12, 2004 -- not years ago. It can be looked up. I guess Lydia imagines that people who read MOL don't remember the circumstances under which Lydia was forced to start posting under her real name after her behavior toward other MOLers when she was posting as "Fairtax". Maybe [dyntunck] will start posting his fantasies next. Wonder if they watch UFOs together.
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Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 7894
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 2:44 pm: |
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Nan, you are infering things that were not implied by Lydia. Period!!
What planet do you live on? How far will you go to make a point?
I don't know if Lydia was the only one to post under the name of "Fairtax" or if other members of that group also used that screen name. However, Lydia outed herself once she realized that it was an issue, much as "Curmudgeon" outed himself when it was pointed out he was a District Leader.
No Harpo (one of a number of names she has used here) didn't ask anyone to be banned. She just started outing people for whatever reasons she might have.
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Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 5830
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 2:44 pm: |
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Claiming a double standard is really nothing more than pointing out that the moderators don't do a perfect job. What else can we expect from them? They are human. |
nan
Citizen
Username: Nan
Post Number: 1882
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 3:26 pm: |
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Bobk,
What other name has Kathleen posted under? Perhaps you are confusing the time when she used to post under "Townie." When she changed to Harpo she announced the change on line. Changing your name with an announcement is not the same as simultaneously posting under various names.
Tom,
No one said they had to be perfect. But when it appears that you have people getting banned for telling the truth and it also appears that liars and liars defending the liars are getting off scott free it starts to sound more like a Bob Dylan song than an effective message board policy. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 7897
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 3:38 pm: |
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Fringe, did she announce it? I wasn't aware of the change. I think there was another name in between Townie and Harpo, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it. |
D.
Citizen
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5580
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 3:43 pm: |
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Nan,
I resent that. It's simply untrue. Harpo is banned because she ignored a simple request. Others were sent similar requests not to continue posting personal attacks and they have stopped. I will ban people if they do it again provided I see it or it is brought to my attention. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 5835
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 3:46 pm: |
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Nan, then your complaint is with the moderators, and I suspect making your complaint public won't help you. Addressing them privately might.
Remember, MOL is a private enterprise. Freedom of the press belongs to the owner of the press. |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 4755
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 3:55 pm: |
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I have to say that I can't recall ever emailing harpo for any reason. Her husband asked me to lunch several times because our offices were so close, and I did meet him once for sushi but this was well before 9/11, I lost my job in NYC right after 9/11. Discussing looking for a job or foreign policy with him is a big, big stretch.
If we have to have thread drift, let's talk about gardening or something more pleasant than attacking innocent families. |
D.
Citizen
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5581
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 3:55 pm: |
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So what's the new policy on assaults at CHS? |
just me fromsouthorange
Supporter
Username: Jmfromsorange
Post Number: 1055
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 4:20 pm: |
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lydia-
from what i understand harpo's husband meeting with mem was work related; so it's not as if harpo's husband 'took mem >out< to dinner.' 
if this is true, seems she should be upset with her husband, not mem. |
D.
Citizen
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5582
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 4:37 pm: |
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I organized a party? Cool.
Apologies to actual hosts, but if I can take credit for throwing a party in your house, I am going to jump on it. |
anon
Citizen
Username: Anon
Post Number: 1692
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 5:00 pm: |
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Reflective:
Nothing wrong with thread drift. It's inevitable, I guess. But these continuous personal feuds among a few people on here are maddening.
As to the initial question if there is a new policy, perhaps it is an unofficial unwritten one. |
nan
Citizen
Username: Nan
Post Number: 1883
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 5:00 pm: |
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Bobk,
Fringe?
If you don't know if something is true or not than why are you stating it as though it were?
Tom,
I have addressed this privately before and got either no or little response. Do you think what Mem posted about Harpo was acceptable on a board with a policy against personal attacks?
Dave,
First, I think I was at that party and it was an MOL related event. Second, I'm not complaining about your banning of Harpo. Third, when have you ever told Mem to stop saying nasty things to anyone? Can you at least explain to me how this post is NOT a personal attack---
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 4734
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 11:53 am:
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Harpo,
Your "mis-translation" of my post was very stupid, angry and ugly, and only a "not very intelligent person" would try to draw context from it for this thread.
All I did was describe one very misbehaved kid, and if this is a syndrome. But, the real reason for your nastiness to me is because I like Fred P and you don't. Cheap and shallow shot? You bet.
Anyway, bon apetite big one, and happy weekend to the rest!
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L'Angelo Misterioso
Citizen
Username: Misterioso
Post Number: 37
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 5:05 pm: |
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Yo D., if "personal attacks" are grounds for suspension, when does Lydia get suspended for this:Harpo's nastiness and relentless stalking of posters both on MOL and in real life is the problem here Apparently, making a rational argument on MOL while using someone's actual, non-fictional, given name is horrifying and evil, while smearing someone's character is not only okay, it seems to be encouraged.
Oh wait. I get it. We're actually in Bizarro World. There are no consequences for doing things that are against the rules. There are consequences only for doing things for which there are no rules at all.
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Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 5837
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 5:15 pm: |
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nan wrote:
I have addressed this privately before and got either no or little response.
I'm sure that's frustrating. Still, this is the best MOL in town, warts and all.
Do you think what Mem posted about Harpo was acceptable on a board with a policy against personal attacks?
I'm glad I don't have to think in those terms. That's the luxury of not being moderator.
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Dave
Citizen
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5584
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 5:16 pm: |
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I typically start out by asking myself if a post is a reaction to a goading out of the clear blue.
the end |
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