| Author | Message | ||
     MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 1928 Registered: 5-2001  |
Coincidentally enough, I just saw this article on the Yahoo front page: Study: Diesel Exhaust Blamed for Deaths Tue Feb 22, 4:41 PM ET U.S. National - AP WASHINGTON - Emissions from old diesel engines cause more than 20,000 Americans a year to die sooner than they would have otherwise, an environmental group estimated Tuesday. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=519&e=4&u=/ap/20050222/ ap_on_re_us/dirty_diesel | ||
| thoughtful Citizen Username: Thoughtful Post Number: 159 Registered: 6-2001 |
I am not saying that smoking isn't disgusting or that it isn't harmful to a smoker's health. I'm also not disputing the fact that second hand smoke can increase the chances that someone will get some form of cancer. The fact is, however, we are often exposed to things in our environment that raise our chances--to varying degrees--of developing some kinds of cancer. And certainly the things that we do--and the genes we have--can also increase our chances of developing cancer. Now, someone goes into a bar and doesn't like the fact that the place smells of cigarette smoke. (Imagine that--cigarette smoke in a bar!) To justify their dislike of cigarette smoke, this person says--we have to ban cigarette smoking in public places because it's unhealthy for me!--despite the fact that it's extremely difficult to isolate second hand smoke as the solitary cause of illness. It just doesn't add up to me. Cigarettes are legal. People can make an informed choice about whether or not they want to buy them. Why do we have to "help" them by banning cigarettes in public places in the hopes that they'll quit? Isn't that what the sin tax--one cause of the $7 per pack cost--supposed to do? I am not a smoking advocate. However, I wish to point out two things: first, we live in a society where many people can do things that annoy us. We seem to be singling out the smokers, though, because they annoy us the most. And second, I find it hard to believe that everyone here who is railing against smoking is doing so for purely altruistic reasons. The fact is, you don't like smoking, so you want it banned from the places where you go. Well, why don't you just go somewhere else? You have a choice, just as the smokers have a choice to smoke or not. If you're so afraid of second hand smoke, ask the smokers to not smoke while you're there. Or ask the bar owners to ban smoking. Why rush to the government and start legislating the way people behave? Leave the smokers alone. It's cold outside. Let them smoke in peace. | ||
| lumpyhead Citizen Username: Lumpyhead Post Number: 1134 Registered: 3-2002 |
How would you feel about banning alcohol? There are plenty of statistics showing it can be very addicting, ruin lives, cause car accidents and deaths but I don't want to ban it. It is a choice people make and yes that choice to drink does affect other people. Just ask anyone in MADD. There has to be a solution for the smoker and non-smoker who want to go to a pub, have a drink and relax. As PC as it is, banning isn't it. | ||
| jamie Moderator Username: Jamie Post Number: 792 Registered: 6-2001  |
it all comes down to the vote in less than a week - let's hope common sense prevails and we catch up with the rest of the East Coast. | ||
| Chris Prenovost Citizen Username: Chris_prenovost Post Number: 350 Registered: 7-2003 |
Thoughtful, Lumpyhead: Great posts. I was going to add to this thread, and realized you guys had covered it quite well. | ||
| e roberts Citizen Username: Wnwd00 Post Number: 320 Registered: 3-2004 |
lumpy you attempt to link smoking and alcohol is false for a simple reason, alochol use in moderation such as 1, 2 or even 3 drinks causes no harm except to the person drinking it. However someone having one cigarette and blowing smoke in my direction can most certainly have a negative impact on my health. | ||
| Chris Prenovost Citizen Username: Chris_prenovost Post Number: 354 Registered: 7-2003 |
One cigarette? Give me a break. It is precisely this kind of thinking that scares us. | ||
| Wendyn Supporter Username: Wendyn Post Number: 1397 Registered: 9-2002 |
Cigarette smoke affects people differently. I have friends who can sit in a smoky bar with no problem. When I see my mom I can barely be near her smoking. It makes me nauseous, get watery eyes and a stuffy nose in a matter of seconds. She is not allowed to smoke in my house (despite the guilt I feel about her smoking in pouring rain) and I won't stay at hers. I have no idea why she continues to poison her body, causing her constant sinus problems and a smoker's cough. But that is her problem. I would love to see NJ be smoke-free. Nothing I hate more than going for a walk in the park and running into a smoker. But honestly I do feel it infringes on people's rights. I have the right to walk away or not patronize smoking establishments. That is why I don't go to the Gate, or Martini's, or other restaraunts that allow smoking. If I want a drink, I go to a restaurant that serves alcohol. If I want to smoke, I go to a restaurant that allows smoking. Simple as that. But hey if they want to ban smoking I'm not going to stop them. | ||
| Hank Zona Citizen Username: Hankzona Post Number: 2051 Registered: 3-2002 |
The answer is a temperance movement...its pretty clear to me that the more folks are drinking, the more they light up in a bar. Check out the smoke levels at a bar with a similar number of people as a night wears on. Sure, some folks smoke just as much regardless of the time of day or numbers of drinks consumed, but I wouldnt doubt if you surveyed smokers, they would tell you they smoke more when they are drinking, especially the light to moderate smoker category. So the answer is to limit or stop the consumption of alcohol in bars...that ought to do it. | ||
| lumpyhead Citizen Username: Lumpyhead Post Number: 1138 Registered: 3-2002 |
It would be okay if the pub was smoke free but if you wanted to smoke you could to the bar at Cent Anni's. Problem is these people want it all their way. Given that attitude, it's a wonder they even socialize in the first place. | ||
| Lydia Supporter Username: Lydial Post Number: 944 Registered: 5-2001 |
Smoking is legal, drinking is legal, and lotteries are legal in NJ. All three persuits contribute $, social value and pleasure to people who drink, smoke and gamble. Here's my analogy: Say I live in a lovely tree-lined street in NJ w/ 5 properties that surround my house. I am an animal lover and I have 4 cats. My cats are outdoor cats and mostly stay on my property, but they're cats, so they waft over to other yards and do what cats do - they dig in gardens, they poop and pee in little corners, they lurk under bird feeders - basically they are normal cats. My neighbors are peeved because they want my cats out of their hair and they don't own cats or they keep their cats indoors. I tell my neighbors that I'm sorry, but cats have been acting like cats for hundreds of years and they are unfairly persecuting my cats. The problem isn't my cats' intruding on their space, the problem is that they are animal haters. I love these cats, they catch mice, they snuggle with me and I like their cat-ness. If my neighbors hate cats so much than it's their problem and they should have moved to a cat-free area. Not a perfect analogy (I think cats have to stay on their own property) but I hope it sort of makes the point that one person's pleasure can be intrusive to others, even if it's not meant to offend. | ||
| lumpyhead Citizen Username: Lumpyhead Post Number: 1141 Registered: 3-2002 |
Then we should ban cats in Maplewood!  | ||
| Lydia Supporter Username: Lydial Post Number: 945 Registered: 5-2001 |
lumpyhead - (sigh) you don't get it - we should get rid of smoking cats!  | ||
| Crazyguggenheim Citizen Username: Crazyguggenheim Post Number: 767 Registered: 2-2002  |
Call me crazy, but my neighbor's cat likes to drink and drive. It's getting so you just can't trust cats anymore. | ||
| Hank Zona Citizen Username: Hankzona Post Number: 2056 Registered: 3-2002 |
Toonces the Cat? and when smoking cats...does one prefer mesquite or a fruit wood? | ||
| mem Citizen Username: Mem Post Number: 4666 Registered: 5-2001  |
I love smoked cat! On a toasted bagel with tomato, onions and cucumber - yum! | ||
| jamie Moderator Username: Jamie Post Number: 803 Registered: 6-2001 |
Georgia State Senate Passes Smokefree Workplace Bill The right to breathe clean air supersedes the right to pollute, says sponsor. - still has to go to the house, that's where it failed last time around. | ||
| Lydia Supporter Username: Lydial Post Number: 949 Registered: 5-2001 |
Jamie- I read the article in this weeks' N/R about the TC tabling the non-smoking initiatives. The owner of O'Reilly's told the TC that following the smoking ban in NYC, Hoboken had a surge of people coming from New York to smoke and drink in Hoboken bars. I called the Hoboken City Clerk on Friday and asked him if Hoboken bar traffic had increased since the NY laws went into effect and he said not that he knew of. Then he elaborated on the logistics of people driving through the tunnels, finding parking, smoking, then driving back through the tunnels (buzzed) and finding parking or garaging their cars in NYC. While we were still on the phone, he called over a man who works in his office and moonlights as a bartender and asked him if he knew of an increase since the ban, and the bartender said he hadn't heard about that either. My chat with the city clerk isn't scientific, but here's a man born and bred in Hoboken who has his ear to the ground and knows what's going on, and he has no knowledge of what was stated as fact to our TC. | ||
| ken (the other one) Citizen Username: Ken Post Number: 236 Registered: 5-2001  |
All I hear from the bar owners in NY is that their business has increased since the ban!! | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 3938 Registered: 5-2001  |
I am in favor of a smoking ban because of the harm that it does to others. However, I do not think that people who choose to smoke (or their families) should sue tobacco companies for their choices. I came home from a business trip last night to a phone call that someone in my immediate family has lung cancer. This person has been a 3-pack a day smoker for decades. It has been this person's choice. We do not yet know what the prognosis is. But I can tell you that it has rocked the family and turned all of our worlds upside-down. We have all been harmed by this person's smoking. Every person who dies of lung cancer and leaves behind young children who grow up without one parent and with the emotionally shell-shocked other parent left to raise them has been harmed by cancer. We can't control other people's choices. But in the interest of public health and the community, we certainly don't have to hand them the weapon. |
