| Author | Message | ||
     mtierney Citizen Username: Mtierney Post Number: 784 Registered: 3-2001 |
Cathy, that property you recall sold finally because of Midtown Direct, which I believe is the primary reason behind the high price values here. As more and more communities are receiving direction access to NYC, our hold on that selling/buying appeal will surely drop. But the people who sold it report that it was extremely difficult because of the taxes - many folks loved the house but walked away because of $14K taxes rate. ..."every year we go through this angst about money and policy and the BOE." So true, Cathy, every year, year after year, and the people we elect and hire think the money just flows. Can't we stem this tide? Your suggestion that I have to move is very mean-spirited. There are absolutely no solutions to confiscatory taxation? Sure, I whine. But what is it that you're doing? | ||
| mjh Citizen Username: Mjh Post Number: 55 Registered: 5-2001 |
I believe Cathy had some constructive comments, as opposed to the usual taxes whine. Yes, you have a right to whine about whatever you wish to whine about. Does it have any positive effect? No, it's just another whine. Run for the BOE yourself, go to the budget meetings, find out what you think could be done better and offer specifics instead of blaming the very people that at least bother to do the hard work. Property values and our ability to sell in M/SO is influenced more by the quality of the schools than by any other factor, including the high taxes. Let the schools decline by cutting here and there indiscriminately in order to lower our tax rate is a good way to kill property values because of school decline. The real issue is the fairness of the NJ school funding laws. Fighting each other over what should be cut from the our local budgets is a great way to shoot ourselves in the proverbial foot. I don't think the suggestion of moving is a bad idea, but anyone who is all complaints and criticism without any effort to work toward the common good is generally unhappy wherever they go. I don't know you, and can't say if this fits you, but it does fit the way your posts sound to me. | ||
| mtierney Citizen Username: Mtierney Post Number: 786 Registered: 3-2001 |
mjh: "Property values and our ability to sell in M/SO is influenced more by the quality of the schools than by any other factor, including the high taxes. Let the schools decline by cutting here and there indiscriminately in order to lower our tax rate is a good way to kill property values because of school decline." Now, that's really scary! Have you checked our district's standings lately? If you have been reading my posts, you would know I am no malcontent as you imply. I just happen to be someone who is yearning to see our tax money spent wisely. You presume to "know" me. I spent 15 years as a volunteer in a number of different community and school roles while my kids were in school. I returned to the work force as college tuitions loomed. BTW, Cathy, not to belabor the point, but when did making a profit become a bad thing? Compensation for rather risky investment, extremely hard work ( which gave employment to many people incidentally), coupled with a desire to do a high quality renovation job which improves a neighborhood, is a good thing, right? | ||
| D. Moderator Username: Dave Post Number: 5484 Registered: 4-1998  |
O'Leary! O'Leary! O'Leary! O'Leary! O'Leary! And lots of other great candidates. Should be a great campaign. | ||
| C Bataille Citizen Username: Nakaille Post Number: 1873 Registered: 5-2001 |
Mtierney, please re-read my post, this time for comprehension. I did NOT suggest that YOU move. I did say that if my priority were taxes (and caroling) then I would seriously consider moving. Making a profit is fine. Just don't pretend you can't handle the taxes here. If you have enough spare money to invest in a house, invest in the fixing up and marketing of it, then you can obviously handle the taxes. Congratulations. What am I doing about the taxes? Paying them. As I've said many times before, I think taxes, including school taxes, are the cost of living in a civilized society. So, no, I'm not on some big rant/campaign/rampage to lower them. I don't think that's a realistic or useful goal. Again, if I was serious about paying less in taxes, particularly school taxes, I'd move. Me. Cathy. And to quote myself from my prior post: "I'm not suggesting that you move." Could I be any clearer here? As far as I'm concerned, cutting the school budget will only harm the schools and eventually lead to lower property values. I'm happy that my property value has finally begun to rise, but I'm not planning to sell anytime soon. I'm hoping to let my kid continue to have the great experience she's been getting thus far in this town and in our schools. After she's done, we'll reassess all of this. And if we need to after that, we'll move. Because as much as we love this town, we're not about to a) impoverish ourselves or b) spend our retirement bitterly complaining about the needs of the next generation of kids. In my opinion, that's what this argument boils down to. My partner and I were both fortunate to get good public school educations in nice towns. Our parents worked hard to buy homes and be able to afford the taxes and other expenses of suburban life. We're working hard to ensure that our kid has the same opportunity. As do/have most of the posters on these threads. But I won't deny that opportunity to the generation to come after my kid just so I can have a couple hundred or even thousand dollars more a year in my pocket. If I really need the money that badly and can't raise it through investment or employment, then I'll move. Really. Cathy | ||
| wharfrat Citizen Username: Wharfrat Post Number: 1617 Registered: 6-2001 |
Well said! | ||
| Montagnard Citizen Username: Montagnard Post Number: 1452 Registered: 6-2003  |
Let's give Mila Jasey the boot. She has consistently voted for dumbing-down the curriculum in favor of "inclusiveness" and we need to prevent her from causing any more damage. | ||
| ffof Citizen Username: Ffof Post Number: 3401 Registered: 5-2001  |
agreed. | ||
| Reflective Citizen Username: Reflective Post Number: 788 Registered: 3-2003 |
D. your 5:32 pm post. O'Leary, O'Leary ect as I said tonight to you in another thread,you are are very well thought out (but sometimes wrong). O'Leary is one of those sometimes. This doesn't mean O'Leary is unlikeable, it just means that we need more leaders on the Bor-Ed. | ||
| nan Citizen Username: Nan Post Number: 1865 Registered: 2-2001 |
Right, let's vote for yet more advocates of scripted reading programs, just like you both did last time as I seem to recall. That will really smarten-up the curriculum. | ||
| Chris Prenovost Citizen Username: Chris_prenovost Post Number: 373 Registered: 7-2003 |
Scripted reading programs? How about the rest of the $86,000,000.00 | ||
| nan Citizen Username: Nan Post Number: 1866 Registered: 2-2001 |
That's a lot of money to hand over to someone who promises the world and then does not bother to understand Budget 101. Think before you vote again. | ||
| Reflective Citizen Username: Reflective Post Number: 791 Registered: 3-2003 |
Uh Oh! Nan must be back from vaction. | ||
| mtierney Citizen Username: Mtierney Post Number: 787 Registered: 3-2001 |
What it "boils down to" in my opinion is this: a BOE which does not set limits on spending or does not spend the money entrusted to it wisely is not doing this community and its kids any good. As I read these education threads, I feel that millions and millions of dollars are being spent each year with the assumption that, gee, if we need more, we can just "whine" for it, threaten reductions, cut the low end jobs, and raise salaries for administrators. Deny us what we demand and your kids will suffer! Our elected board of education needs to be our eyes and ears and the guardians of our financial input so that our hired administrators know exactly what they can or cannot spend. Our district became a national joke over the carol issue - which could have been handled tactfully, not high-handedly. If the current BOE feels it has to be on the cutting edge of issues, why don't they try cutting costs!  If taxes force famillies to leave after their kids are through school and the parents feel they have gotten their money's worth, what sort of town will that become? | ||
| Reflective Citizen Username: Reflective Post Number: 795 Registered: 3-2003 |
mtierney point of clarification. did you mean to say " and the parents didn't feel they have gotten their money's worth" ?} | ||
| peteglider Citizen Username: Peteglider Post Number: 964 Registered: 8-2002 |
When I moved here 4 years ago -- I based my short list of possible towns on 1) geography, and 2) good schools, 3) community/neighborhoods. I doubt that I am atypical -- in terms of what's important. That said -- with taxes as high as they are, if the schools don't deliver -- then this community begins to fall off my (and other current and potential residents) short list. My oldest child is finishing high school -- and not at CHS. And as my youngest is in his last 2 years of elementary school -- I am beginning to seriously question how much longer I will stay in this area. I believe the right board members will prioritize with the teachers what is really needed to impove education, and if some minimal increases in taxes are needed -- be willing to stick their necks out to make that case for us to consider! Look to hear from all the candidates -- Pete | ||
| Southorangemom Citizen Username: Southorangemom Post Number: 176 Registered: 6-2003 |
I've said it before, and will say it again, if the BOE members are not allowed into the schools [unless they are excorted by the principal] HOW THE HECK can they know what is working and what is not???????? Why don't we open up the communication process and encourage an open ended dialogue between teachers and BOE members as to what if working and what needs fixing?????????? Instead of relying on reports submitted by the superintendent and his employees, why don't we talk to the teachers????????? SouthOrangeMom | ||
| lumpyhead Citizen Username: Lumpyhead Post Number: 1165 Registered: 3-2002 |
Why?? I guess for security reasons a taxpayer cannot walk into Columbia High School but why not a BOE member? | ||
| Gordon Agress Citizen Username: Odd Post Number: 74 Registered: 8-2004 |
C Bataille -- At any level of spending, school quality driven by how well that money is spent. You don’t seem to agree, since “this argument boils down to” people in “retirement bitterly complaining about the needs of the next generation of kids.” But with people – many with children, and far from retirement -- questioning the reading curriculum, and the achievement gap, and the effectiveness of various projects, and the administration’s handling of controversy, it seems very possible that some are more interested in whether our children in the most effective manner at current funding levels. Now, you suggest that some people may move after their children’s graduation to avoid “impoverishing” themselves. Do taxes that force such choices make sense? After all, the schools’ finances depend on subsidies from people without children in the schools, and higher income people with children in the schools. This makes sense for many reasons, among them a genuine interest in others and an economic dependence on the success of all these kids. But if those subsidies grow so burdensome that people begin to move to avoid them, then the system enters a death spiral. There is an obvious, if unknown, limit to how much taxation the town can bear at a sustainable level. If the answer to every problem is “more money”, then we will eventually tip the school finance system into decline. Worse, it will take several years after that point to recognize the situation; and it will probably be very hard to reform a school system addicted to “more money” to focus on spending that money well. There are two necessary answers. First, spend the money well, and always focus on spending it better. Second, conduct your business with sufficient transparency and regard for community opinion that you convince the community that you are spending its money well. The sooner you start with both, the less work you need to fix things. Current debate suggests to me that the schools aren’t meeting the second standard; certainly because transparency is a problem, and it seems very likely because greater transparency would reveal the money isn’t being spent well. (By the way, I just bet I know the alternative solution to be proposed to the avoided subsidy problem.) | ||
| mtierney Citizen Username: Mtierney Post Number: 788 Registered: 3-2001 |
Reflective: No |
