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Message |
    
themp
Supporter
Username: Themp
Post Number: 1553
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 2:43 pm: | 
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Michael Badnarik, Libertarian
1. "I would announce a special one-week session of Congress where all 535 members would be required to sit through a special version of my Constitution class. Once I was convinced that every member of Congress understood my interpretation of their very limited powers, I would insist that they restate their oath of office while being videotaped."
2. He got NEARLY as many votes as Nader.
3. He also advocates the elimination of the Federal Reserve and the restoration of a commodity-based currency.
4. Badnarik also believes that ZIP codes constitute federal territories, and because of this he places the ZIP code before the state when he writes mailing addresses.
5. When he moved to Texas, he did not obtain a driver's license, due to that state's requirement that an applicant provide a Social Security Number and fingerprint, and has been therefore convicted in court several times for driving without a license.
I think the liberatarian things is funny they can't elect a dog catcher anywhere. They are too pure of heart, I guess. |
The Libertarian
Citizen
Username: Local_1_crew
Post Number: 531
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 3:23 pm: |
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I think the liberatarian things is funny they can't elect a dog catcher anywhere.
you might want to check that before you make sstatement that is outright false.
as to his views on congressmen, i think he is right. he also right about the privacy invasion and civil liberties issues involved in getting a texas drivers license. |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 3254
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 3:25 pm: |
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I'd never vote for the guy, but his suggestion of members of Congress brushing up on the Constitution (and for some this would be new material) is a good idea. |
The Libertarian
Citizen
Username: Local_1_crew
Post Number: 533
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 3:31 pm: |
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people fear change |
susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 448
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 3:44 pm: |
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No, we only fear the wrong change... |
Parkbench87
Citizen
Username: Parkbench87
Post Number: 1810
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 3:47 pm: |
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Libertarian,
Change in itself is neither good or bad. I assume you would fear a change that involved the giovernment deciding to confiscate all weapons in the hands of private citziens as well as double the amount of money you are required to pay for Public Education? |
themp
Supporter
Username: Themp
Post Number: 1555
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 3:50 pm: |
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He's a crank, like most mooncalf libertarians. It's like a star trek convention. They know their ideas will never be put to any practical test. They can't build any local support.
"If we elect you councilman, will you help put a stoplight at Maple and Locust? I'm a concerned parent and I'd like to know."
"Thanks for the question. No! In fact, I'd get rid of the existing stop sign because it infringes on the liberty of people who want to take on the risk of not stopping. Plus we'd go to a commodity-based currency, like datenut bread slices or something. Next question?" |
Robert Livingston
Citizen
Username: Rob_livingston
Post Number: 958
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 3:56 pm: |
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The Libertarian
Citizen
Username: Local_1_crew
Post Number: 536
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 4:03 pm: |
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They can't build any local support.
fastest growing political party in the country. |
Robert Livingston
Citizen
Username: Rob_livingston
Post Number: 959
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 4:10 pm: |
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Yeah, so was Ross Perot's Reform Party at one point...
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Sgt. Pepper
Citizen
Username: Jjkatz
Post Number: 751
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 4:42 pm: |
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Until he started talking about Martians in his soup. |
themp
Supporter
Username: Themp
Post Number: 1556
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 5:26 pm: |
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"fastest growing political party in the country."
Only because of it's smallness. |
The Libertarian
Citizen
Username: Local_1_crew
Post Number: 539
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 5:48 pm: |
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ah, the open mindedness of this boards membership is refreshing. "if it doesnt agree with my opinions then it must be madness". you are a credit to the growth of human understanding. |
D.
Moderator
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5558
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 5:57 pm: |
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Here's the party's platform
http://www.lp.org/issues/platform/execsumm.html |
themp
Supporter
Username: Themp
Post Number: 1557
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 6:16 pm: |
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Libertarians are tedious, rigid, and have an embarrassing belief in their own "courage". |
themp
Supporter
Username: Themp
Post Number: 1558
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 6:17 pm: |
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Do you agree that a commodity-based currency is a good idea? Back to the gold standard, I guess? |
The Libertarian
Citizen
Username: Local_1_crew
Post Number: 544
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 6:41 pm: |
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Libertarians are tedious, rigid, and have an embarrassing belief in their own "courage".
and your beliefs system is supported by ridicule, obstinancy, and disregard for the opinions and beliefs of others. |
The Libertarian
Citizen
Username: Local_1_crew
Post Number: 547
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 8:00 pm: |
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heres a nice little list of famous libertarians:
http://www.self-gov.org/celebrities.html |
ML
Supporter
Username: Ml1
Post Number: 2340
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 8:14 pm: |
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Mojo Nixon's a libertarian?
Well now that changes everything! Where do I sign up? |
The Libertarian
Citizen
Username: Local_1_crew
Post Number: 548
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 8:44 pm: |
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elvis is everywhere |
argon_smythe
Citizen
Username: Argon_smythe
Post Number: 545
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 9:02 am: |
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The first thing that happens, when someone starts to attract attention or a following, or gain political momentum, is ridicule. This does not necesarily mean they are a crank. It also does not necessarily mean they are brilliant. But it does happen, I challenge someone to name a case where it hasn't happened. It is an extremely effective derailer.
It happens too consistently, and there is something distinctly suspect about it. Is it logical to believe that every political figure outside the well-established parties is a nutcase?
Please note I'm very intentionally refraining on comment on this specific individual one way or the other.
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The Libertarian
Citizen
Username: Local_1_crew
Post Number: 553
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 12:03 pm: |
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John Maynard Keynes-
"The difficulty lies, not in the new ideas, but in escaping from the old ones, which ramify, for those brought up as most of us have been, into every corner of our minds. |
SO Refugee
Citizen
Username: So_refugee
Post Number: 47
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 1:29 pm: |
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Here's the link to check out all the high level Libertarians in public office -
http://www.lp.org/organization/officials.php
My next highlighted Libby is:
Jeffrey Emery of New Hampshire
Wentworth Supervisor of the Checklist
the what?
Let's see if he's on the docket for "Meet the Press" tomorrow.
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The Libertarian
Citizen
Username: Local_1_crew
Post Number: 558
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 1:52 pm: |
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"The soft-minded man always fears change. He feels security in the status quo, and he has an almost morbid fear of the new. For him, the greatest pain is the pain of a new idea. "
Martin Luther King, Jr
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notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 2135
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 5:26 pm: |
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King was quite right. But that's no endorsement of libertarianism. |
The Libertarian
Citizen
Username: Local_1_crew
Post Number: 567
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 7:54 pm: |
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nor was it meant to be one. understanding context is an important ability. |
themp
Supporter
Username: Themp
Post Number: 1559
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 10:46 am: |
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So what would be the first 10 things a "Libertarian Government" would do? |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 5848
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 11:26 am: |
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Libertarian, it is true that some good, new ideas often start out as seeming like radical bad ideas. But it is a huge jump in logic -- and utterly flawed -- to imply that ideas that seem radical and bad are therefore good. |
themp
Supporter
Username: Themp
Post Number: 1560
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 3:00 pm: |
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Tom is right.
Also - these are really old ideas.
I would be interested in learning specifically what ideas in the financial area are being put forward. |
Debby
Citizen
Username: Debby
Post Number: 1728
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 5:01 pm: |
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I'm a little surprised that a libertarian would quote John Maynard Keynes to strengthen his stance. As the father of interventionist economics, wouldn't Keynes be the anti-libertarian? |
Robert Livingston
Citizen
Username: Rob_livingston
Post Number: 961
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 9:03 am: |
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First of all, I'd like to commend Local for bringing the concept of libertarianism to the forefront. I did learn more about it through these threads, and subsequent queries.
And I do dig some of the abstract ideas, and I certainly would have jumped all over the anarchy thing about 10 years ago, especially the legalize all drugs concept the libertarians like, but, ironically, back then I was too stoned to give a rat's •••.
The one thing I did learn, though, was that, to borrow a line from Crash Davis, debating with a liberatrian is like a Martian talking to a fungo.
The debate dies when the libertarian can't cite any real-life examples of their ideologies (and, Local, you have never cited any charity that works better than government programs -- and the Central Park Conservatory works with the government, not instead of, which is the concept you touted up and down the thread...besides, it's a weak example when compared to government programs that are supposed to help children in abusive households and such...)
So thank you, Libertarian, for information.
And please don't come knockin' or I'll have to shoo you away faster than you can say Jehovah's Witness...
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Dave
Citizen
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5599
Registered: 4-1998
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 9:26 am: |
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"never cited any charity that works better than government programs"
The Red Cross |
Robert Livingston
Citizen
Username: Rob_livingston
Post Number: 962
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 9:29 am: |
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Okay, that's a good one. |
themp
Supporter
Username: Themp
Post Number: 1569
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 1:00 pm: |
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If you ask a libertarian why the deregulation of the energy market in CA was such a disaster, they'll say "it wasn't deregulated enough."
Can't please them. They are like old Marxists - only the purest version of their beliefs is adequate. It's very much a freshman year barroom argument level of insight. |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 3138
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 6:48 pm: |
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I have to admit an admiration for some of the principles expressed in the platform; but a lot of it is contradictory, naive, duplicitous or destructive. Examples:
Contradictory: "Consumer Protection", We support strong and effective laws against fraud and misrepresentation; and "Finance and Capital Markets", Regulation of financial and capital markets represses capital ventures. Seems to me, if you're going to have laws against fraud they will involve regulating the financial markets at some level.
Naive: "Pollution", Pollution of other people's property is a violation of individual rights. Strict liability, not government agencies and arbitrary government standards, should regulate pollution. Then what will the liability be based on if not some standard, set by some agreed-upon body? If a body is agreed upon to set those standards, doesn't it function as a government? If not, then where does it draw its power from?
Duplicitous: "Government Secrecy", We condemn the government's use of secret classifications to keep from the public information that it should have. Once you're in power, who will decide what the public "should have"?
Destructive: put together the stances on pollution, resource use, and agriculture; then refer to Jared Diamond's "Collapse." Or refer to "The Tragedy of the Commons" (http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/TragedyoftheCommons.html).
As Madison said, "If men were angels, no Government would be necessary." And I still trust him more than anyone on the libertarian VIP list.
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Lucky13
Citizen
Username: Lucky13
Post Number: 12
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2005 - 12:39 pm: |
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they elected ron paul to congress in texas. he's certified-tinfoilhat |
themp
Supporter
Username: Themp
Post Number: 1578
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2005 - 1:29 pm: |
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"Naive: "Pollution", Pollution of other people's property is a violation of individual rights. Strict liability, not government agencies and arbitrary government standards, should regulate pollution. Then what will the liability be based on if not some standard, set by some agreed-upon body? If a body is agreed upon to set those standards, doesn't it function as a government? If not, then where does it draw its power from? "
One part of libertarianism would seem to be replacing regulation for the general good with thousands of lawsuits over property rights. It's ironic. Regulation is probably a cheaper way of avoiding harm than having to sue midwestern powerplants on your own because of mercury or whatever. |
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