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Message |
    
kathleen
Citizen
Username: Symbolic
Post Number: 3
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 - 7:22 pm: | 
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I forgot to answer twig's question:
A major reason the Education thread is such a flashpoint is that the majority of posters on MOL are white and a large number of children in the schools, in at least one school the majority, are black. In addition, a disproportionate number of the regular white posters on MOL are people who are particularly anxious and paranoid about the size of the school's black student body. That's one of the reasons they are constantly posting on MOL. Their constant anxiety about it. The site is so hostile to black families, I doubt many will ever join in posting here in significant numbers. If they did, the conversations would be more reasonable. |
CLK
Supporter
Username: Clkelley
Post Number: 837
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 - 8:43 pm: |
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I started posting on this thread with the observation that I know I'm going to regret it. Why I didn't listen to myself, I have no idea.
I'm with twig - I'm outta here. I think I'd rather drink a cup of hemlock than post in this section again. |
Dave
Moderator
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5642
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 - 8:51 pm: |
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ditto |
Lucky13
Citizen
Username: Lucky13
Post Number: 18
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 - 8:44 am: |
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kathleen-
i'd agree with you if you further qualified the posters to "empty-nesters"- it's about a vile opposition to the taxes, a subtle racism, not any vile racism by folks with white kids in the schools. |
Dusya
Citizen
Username: Dusya
Post Number: 10
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 - 9:18 am: |
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Kathleen,
I don't agree with you at all. Many people post on this thread because they care about student achievement for their own kids and for other people's kids, REGARDLESS OF RACE. The fact is that student achievement in this district is not as high as it should be for far too many children. Just look at the NJ ASK scores for evidence of this on the NJ State Report Card http://education.state.nj.us/rc/. This test is but one indicator of student performance, however it is a significant indicator and the only objective one we have. (See Tulip's explanation of the value of NJASK on another thread.)
Not enough is being done to promote student achievement in this district. And it's not just about money. It's about educational priorities. The frustration many of us feel about this is, in my opinion, why the Education thread is such a flashpoint. |
Dave
Moderator
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5644
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 - 9:40 am: |
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Just read through Kathleen's rant again and I have to say I strongly object to her characterization of just about everything. The notion that we only "protect" people who have contributed financially is abhorrent and totally unfounded. I think that's just about the worst thing anyone has said about MOL and it might be defamatory because it's obviously said with malicious intent.
The notion that I'm personally held to account for what others are saying politically is absurd. Her blind rage is directed against Republicans yet I'm a Democrat and am being maligned because I let people speak their minds.
I don't know when I ever claimed someone was our "most popular poster" and have no idea who is being referred to. The context seems to mean Fringe, but I can't really say.
It was not me who was trying to publish something in the NYTimes, it was Howard Rheingold, author of The Virtual Community and Smart Mobs and the leading authority on communities like MOL who wanted to have a very positive op-ed run in the paper to encourage the use of the Internet as a political forum. I now see perhaps the op-ed was intentionally not run. You want MOL to end and you want to besmirch my reputation.
You've used MOL to meet people, make friends and become part of a social network and now it's all just a rotten place? In your perfect world only those of correct political persuation should post. The King's analogy is apt for the Queen of misrepresentation. No one buys it. |
Dave
Moderator
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5645
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 - 10:01 am: |
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Moreover, we really can't see one anothers' races or genders here, so I'd be catious about saying who's reading or not reading along or posting. As a personal aside, nearly ever conversation I've had about MOL with people who are black (or Asian or Hispanic) has been positive; I can't recall any complaints, actually; maybe people were being polite, I can't say. I've also been a panel member on the Community Coalition on Race's forum on race and the media. I'm interested in the issue and don't quite know who appointed Kathleen to speak for the black community. I trust they are fairly well informed and speak their minds already . I applaud the MLK student union which is bringing their issues to the table for discussion with the administration. More dialogue is always the first step in a solution, not banning all who disagree with you. |
Lydia
Supporter
Username: Lydial
Post Number: 1003
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 - 10:39 am: |
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Well said Dave.
I too re-read Kathleen's post, and while I'd like to try to work things out, after a good night's sleep and giving some thought to what she's said, I am really bothered by her meanness.
I wish she'd stop bringing Mem into this, but if it helps - My husband and Kathleen's husband worked at the same newspaper - they have met each other according to my husband.
If Mem had wanted a job at that organization she would have spoken to my husband, who is a friend of hers. Further, my husband worked in the marketing department, and marketing is what Mem does.
I mentioned Mem and the husband had lunch together because Kathleen claimed she didn't know her. Now she claims they had an e-mail friendship - which statement is the lie?
To take a huge leap in logic and infer that I implied seduction is bizarre, and insulting to Mem.
You're a bully Kathleen, I've tried more than once to extend the olive branch to you, but I think you get off on your rage and backing posters into corners that you create with your lies.
I'm through with you and your personal attacks. You lie about me, you lie about my friends, you lie about people you have no way of knowing anything about - like the color of poster's skin.
Please leave me alone.
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Dave
Moderator
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5648
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 - 11:18 am: |
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quote: if you further qualified the posters to "empty-nesters"
Lucky13, you may be engaging in behavior that you are criticizing in others. Broad strokes like this should be avoided. |
mjh
Citizen
Username: Mjh
Post Number: 63
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 - 11:35 am: |
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"......I was especially disturbed by your seeming threat to the teacher’s union that if they didn’t start acting on your behalf, there would be consequences."
To tell you the truth, I really didn't care for the teacher's union thing either. As far as being a "supporter" or not, I find the little titles annoying because 1) posters occasionally deride people they are arguing with for not being a "supporter" (not Dave, except for the union thing) and 2) I like transparency in giving to charity, and I don't know where to find any financial information about MOL. I give to charity, but I haven't been a MOL "tipper" to date. Just IMHO.
That said, since this is a volunteer activity, Dave and Jamie should do as they see fit. Anything said or done on MOL, however, is up for criticism, which is the nature of such a message board. No exceptions, not even for the keepers of the board. |
Dave
Moderator
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5650
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 - 12:14 pm: |
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In the interst of clarification:
We're not a charity. We've never claimed to be one. We didn't solicit tips or anything, people basically requested a means to help and we provided one. We are keeping tabs on how much we take in and will find ways to use it to benefit those who use MOL through improvements (yet to be determined). If you'd feel better about contributing to a non-profit, we recommend the Electronic Freedom Frontier.
I don't think using "supporter" status to shame others is helpful and hope it stops.
For the SOMEA thing, perhaps it was somewhat emotional on my part, but I feel that MOL is being dragged into a political fight that we're not a part of. An outspoken critic of the administration who teaches at CHS is the brother of the plaintiffs' attorney. The next best thing to being a lawyer is owning a big printing press (so to speak). |
SOMaplewood
Citizen
Username: Somaplewood
Post Number: 61
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 - 2:19 pm: |
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If I were Kathleen and my husband had lunch with Mem, I'd feel threatened. |
Lucky13
Citizen
Username: Lucky13
Post Number: 26
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 - 2:48 pm: |
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Dave-
If you deny the vitriole in here against what is by all measures a fine school system, including an embarassing ratio of likely 10-1 of lies-to-truth in rumors, is instigated by a cadre of empty-nester whites virulently anti-tax, then I stand corrected since you should know. |
Dave
Moderator
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5652
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 - 4:28 pm: |
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I can think of several empty-nesters who are profoundly anti the anti-taxers, so it just doesn't fly. |
Lizziecat
Citizen
Username: Lizziecat
Post Number: 552
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 - 6:15 pm: |
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Begging your pardon, Lucky, but my husband and I are white empty nesters who are not "virulently anti-tax." As I believe I stated in some long-ago previous post, when our children were in school there were empty nesters paying to educate them; now it is our turn to pay to educate other children. What goes around comes around, and if we leave here it won't be because of the outrageous taxes; it will be beause we'll be too decrepit to climb our stairs. |
LibraryLady(ncjanow)
Supporter
Username: Librarylady
Post Number: 2319
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 - 6:32 pm: |
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Add another pair of white empty nesters to the list. Sure, we kid around about either moving out of town to a community with lousy schools and low taxes now that the 2 are in college, and sure we bitch about our taxes but ....
If our schools degrade so do our housing values and subsequently our nest egg. We need to maintain good schools if only to keep our housing stock valuable, not to mention the moral and social responsiblity of a community to well educate its young. |
Reflective
Citizen
Username: Reflective
Post Number: 835
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 - 7:12 pm: |
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Well said again Dave ( your comments to Kathleen and Lucky)
I would just add that the intimidating comments and their negative implications such as Kathleen made above (white posters/black schools, blah, blah,blah) are now passe.
Kathleen, more and more whites and blacks are disgusted with that tact. It is now seen widely as divisive. All of us, that's all - Kathleen, have too much to lose, with your agenda seemingly geared only to keep white and black americans from moving ahead together.
Your stereotypes are your opinion. Your opinions are wrong.
Many posters on MOL, have different opinions, different styles, different agendas, different backgrounds, you get the idea.
Kathleen, people like you-so steeped in so-called politically correct diversity abhor any opinion, views or styles diferent from yours.
WHY? |
Dave
Moderator
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5659
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Sunday, March 20, 2005 - 2:02 pm: |
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Here's the link Kathleen is talking about:
http://www.southorangevillage.com/cgi-bin/board-auth.cgi?lm=1084834566&file=/627 48/35272.html
A few things to note:
1) I immediately deleted the initial post because it was against MOL policy not to out people.
2) People then began debating Nan's article to the News-Record that mentioned Lynn Crawford's child (!)(hello... inappropriate, but I don't moderate the News-Record).
3) Fringe reposted the initial link to the NYT editorial board, which someone correctly pointed out, is woefully white and male.
Looks like some of us are living in Opposite-World. Adopting the Bush/Rove strategy, I guess? |
Dave
Moderator
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5660
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Sunday, March 20, 2005 - 2:04 pm: |
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Yes, I'd like an apology, btw. |
nan
Citizen
Username: Nan
Post Number: 1906
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 20, 2005 - 7:22 pm: |
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I can't believe I'm being dragged into this thread again, but it seems I have no choice since incorrect statements are being made about me by Dave.
I did not write an article for the News Record about Lynn Crawford's child. There was a News Record article with an interview with Lynn Crawford which I discussed on line. |
anon
Citizen
Username: Anon
Post Number: 1717
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, March 20, 2005 - 7:50 pm: |
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Twig is probably no longer reading this thread but if she is I think the thread itself answers her question.
And I say: ENOUGH! |
Joan
Supporter
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 5213
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 20, 2005 - 8:22 pm: |
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Twig:
I don't read the Education threads very often because many of the discussions which relate to education in our school system assume prior knowledge, which I just don't have since my off spring is no longer able to keep me up to date on the latest happenings in the schools.
There are times when I wish that early poists to an Education thread would contain a little more background about the issue under discussion. This might help to focus the discussion more on the subject of the thread and delay the eventual thread drift which seems more prevalent in Education than most other parts of the Board.
To answer your question, I think most people who come to the education threads either with the intent of posting or just reading, do so to exchange ideas and information regarding key issues in the schools. When the posters to this these threads refuse to be sidetracked, some very valuable sharing can occur. Because so many of us care so deeply about the present and future of our community and our community's young people, these discussions can get more than a little emotional. |
Dave
Moderator
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5661
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Sunday, March 20, 2005 - 9:10 pm: |
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I'm filing this thread in the "No good deed goes unpunished" file.
All I ask is that when someone complains about something and I take care of it immediately that I don't get attacked for doing nothing about it a year later. |
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