| Author | Message | ||
     Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 7853 Registered: 5-2001 |
The stories I saw indicated that Hezbollah bussed people in from Shite slums, not Syria. Still even conservative estimates indicate their were 500,000 demonstrators. Like it or not Hezbollah is widely popular in Lebanon because of their roll in getting Israel out of the country and because of their charity work. Their militia is estimated to have over 21,000 members. I believe that the Coptics, Druids and Sunnis are trying to reach out to Hezbollah to join in the democracy movement. I hope this works, but Hezbollah is pretty much owned lock, stock and Ak-47s by Syria and Iran. | ||
| Strawman Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 4632 Registered: 10-2001 |
This thread once again demonstrates why the radical left in this nation are just too damn stupid to be counted on to make policy. Luckily they don't anymore. | ||
| Guy Supporter Username: Vandalay Post Number: 575 Registered: 8-2004  |
Straw, Hillary would agree with you. | ||
| Paul Surovell Supporter Username: Paulsurovell Post Number: 267 Registered: 2-2003 |
Tjohn -- The United Nations is not a independent entity, it's the vehicle through which the nations of the world can act together. Once the US commits to withdraw its troops, relinquish control over Iraq and support a United Nations program to restore Iraqi sovereignty, there will be broad support among UN members for a UN-facilitated return to Iraqi sovereignty. One component of this would be to involve all regional Arab countries and giving the Baathists -- except those guilty of crimes against humanity -- a formal role in the process. A general regional political agreement on these lines would be the key element in making viable the introduction of UN peacekeeping forces, most of whom should be from Arab countries. In varying degrees, a number of military/security experts have advocated that the US relinquish control of Iraq to the United Nations, along with a central role for regional Arab countries. These experts including Lt. Gen. William Odom, director of the National Security Agency under Pres. Reagan, Lt. Gen Brent Scowcroft, national security advisor under Reagan and Bush-1 and Zbigniew Brzezinski, national security advisor to Jimmy Carter. The UN plays a central role in Senator Kennedy's proposal for which he undoubtedly consulted with military/security experts. In order to get the US out of Iraq in a manner that best serves our national interests and national security, we have to think outside the box that has been dictated by the neocons and the major media and which limits thinking to cardboard stereotypes rather than real-word realities. | ||
| tjohn Citizen Username: Tjohn Post Number: 2939 Registered: 12-2001  |
Paul, I don't disagree with what you are saying. However, it seems that the U.N. is better suited to work with nations that actually want to solve their issues peacefully as opposed to nations that still want to fight it out. I will grant you that most Iraqis want to work things out peacefully, but a large number do not. Assuming that the Fallujah operation was necessary, do you think the U.N. could have handled that? | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 3242 Registered: 8-2003 |
Paul, the UN can't order a pizza effectively, and turning anything that has heavy lifting involved to them is the worst mistake you can make. I'm not sure the UN is all hepped up to get involved in Iraq yet. They can monitor elections -- mostly from Jordan -- but setting up a base and building there would be a target. Their last mission and building were hit, and they high-tailed it out of there. A UN mission can't fix Haiti, Somalia, The Balkans, or the Sudan. Haven't read anything real positive out of the Congo where the UN is sending reps to keep an eye on UN peacekeepers raping those they're charged with keeping safe. And having Ted Kennedy as a backer is a sure-fire indicator it's a loser of an idea. Add to which that no Iraqi with any real sway has asked the US to leave. The protests are now turning more against the terrorists and their own government for not moving faster. | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 475 Registered: 9-2004 |
Hmmm…I guess that pro-Syrian demonstration made a statement. Read on… Pro-Syrian Lebanese Leader Is Reappointed http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20050310/ap_on_re_mi_ea/leban on_syria By SAM F. GHATTAS, Associated Press Writer BEIRUT, Lebanon - Lebanon's president, emboldened by a massive pro-Syria demonstration, reinstated Omar Karami as prime minister on Thursday, 10 days after the Damascus-backed leader stepped down under popular and international pressure. Karami, who had continued to lead a caretaker government, immediately invited the opposition to join him in a national unity government. He said he will begin consultations early next week with lawmakers to form a Cabinet. "The difficulties we all know cannot be confronted without a government of national unity and salvation," he said. "We will extend our hand and wait for the other side." But the opposition, who orchestrated the protests that led to Karami's Feb. 28 resignation, rejected the reappointment even before it became official. They have complained that the national unity proposal was a trap to bring opposition members into the Cabinet without giving them a say in policymaking. Karami suggested he might not proceed if he fails in bringing to bring all factions together. "If there is no national unity government and if I am the obstacle then I am ready to bow out," he said. Karami's return to leadership ensures Damascus' continued dominance in Lebanon's politics. | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 3247 Registered: 8-2003 |
The statement was that Hizbollah wanted everyone to know they're there and they're players. Hizbollah can't win anything by backing and calling for Syrian occupation. Heard a Lebanese analyst on TV the other day say that Hizbollah had one demonstration, where those calling for freedom can mount a demonstration every day without much organization at all because it's genuine. Hizbollah says this isn't a Ukraine. Yeah right....they hope. You can't put the genie back in the bottle. I hope for democracy to advance quickly there just as Phenixrising wants Syrian tyranny to regroup for his own political victory. | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 476 Registered: 9-2004 |
I hope for democracy to advance quickly there just as Phenixrising wants Syrian tyranny to regroup for his own political victory. cjc, You LOVE putting words in other peoples mouths! You LOVE to misconstrue information! Seems to be a pattern with YOU!  It's obvious you DO NOT thoroughly read these threads! Read my quote from above: As far as the Lebanese people…let them chart their destiny without US and Syrian interference. I found this story interesting that the President of Lebanon could be so influenced & pressured by that demonstration. That's why I posted the story in THIS thread. | ||
| Michael Janay Citizen Username: Childprotect Post Number: 1703 Registered: 1-2003  |
The president of Lebanon wasn't pressured by the demonstration, he was pressured by SYRIA. And its starting to come out that this massive "uprising" was staged by the Syrian government. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43213 But even if it wasn't, its no suprise that Hizbullah has a lot of supporters in Lebanon. That doesn't make them right. | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 477 Registered: 9-2004 |
The president of Lebanon wasn't pressured by the demonstration, he was pressured by SYRIA. He was. The demonstration was put together by Hezbollah with the support of Syria I'm sure. However, the organization is strenuously anti-American, yet an important player in Lebanese politics. I'm all for free elections in ANY country. But just seeing how much influence this Hezbollah group has, is kind of scary, especially towards the US. | ||
| Robert Livingston Citizen Username: Rob_livingston Post Number: 946 Registered: 7-2004 |
A thrilling epic of freedom By Meron Benvenisti Haaretz "The desperate American need to justify the Iraqi war after the fact is causing them and their supporters to inflate every event and to lend it a significance that goes beyond the local, limited context, which usually stems not from lofty principles, but from the interests of local tyrants who want to strengthen their position. "Enthusiasm over the "harbingers of freedom" is particularly strong among right-wing circles in Israel and the United States, who see the spread of democracy as the justification for their old demand that a precondition for any normalization and peace process is a "democratization of the Arabs." In the eyes of the satisfied people of the Western world, political freedom and the institutions of parliamentary democracy are more important than freedom from want and equality of opportunity in the areas of economics, education and health." | ||
| Michael Janay Citizen Username: Childprotect Post Number: 1707 Registered: 1-2003 |
Phenix, I couldn't agree with your last post more. | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 479 Registered: 9-2004 |
MJ, WOW! We actually AGREE on something!  | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 3249 Registered: 8-2003 |
"In the eyes of the satisfied people of the Western world, political freedom and the institutions of parliamentary democracy are more important than freedom from want and equality of opportunity in the areas of economics, education and health." Freedom from want? This guy seems to be making a case for tyranny as long as the trains run on time. On the other hand, Castro promised subsidized rice cookers on Int'l Womens Day down in Cuba, so maybe democracy isn't all it's cracked up to be. If everyone is equally miserable you've got equality. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 7862 Registered: 5-2001 |
However, a peaceful solution to the situation in Syria is going to require Hezbollah support, like it or not. Even Bush is in favor of open dialogue to try to get Hezbollah involved in the democracy movement. Without their involvement another civil war is in the offing. For the record they already hold 13 seats in what passes for a parliment in Lebanon these days. The positive of their demonstration was that it was peaceful. They sent somewhere north of 500,000 supporters, not 20,000 militiamen. Hezbollah is a little like the IRA, having both political and military wings. The really weird thing is that in Iraq we sort of view the Shites as the "good guys", while in Lebanon they are the "bad guys". | ||
| Robert Livingston Citizen Username: Rob_livingston Post Number: 947 Registered: 7-2004 |
cjc: That's not what Benvenisti is saying at all. You must not have done very well on the reading comprehension part of the SAT... | ||
| Michael Janay Citizen Username: Childprotect Post Number: 1710 Registered: 1-2003 |
Cjc, Haaretz is further left than the NYT. Its a joke even among Israeli socialists. My cousin didn't get a job with them because she is too conservative, and she's a Democrat from Massachussetts. | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 3250 Registered: 8-2003 |
Didn't know that. RL must get home delivery. | ||
| Robert Livingston Citizen Username: Rob_livingston Post Number: 948 Registered: 7-2004 |
Right, cjc, because I'm liberal (and damn proud of it, too). I get it. |
