| Author | Message | ||
     SO Refugee Citizen Username: So_refugee Post Number: 64 Registered: 2-2005  |
Read the threads. At least I change my tune once in a while. My goal is not to belittle the masses for not agreeing with my views as you do with your narrow and isolated diatribe. I do resent being spoken down to from someone who talks a lot of fluff and no substance - and, in case you missed it, I'm talking to YOU Libby. | ||
| KingofNJ Citizen Username: Kingofnj Post Number: 17 Registered: 2-2004 |
Jamie, I don't get you. If you don't like the smoke and find it disgusting then leave the bar and have the decency to let everyone else make the same decision. The King has spoken. Long live the King. | ||
| jamie Moderator Username: Jamie Post Number: 831 Registered: 6-2001  |
ok, i'll stay in my apartment and never leave.  Thanks! I guess smoking is a good and healthy thing - huh king? | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 591 Registered: 3-2004  |
I do resent being spoken down to from someone who talks a lot of fluff and no substance as you sow, so shall you reap | ||
| KingofNJ Citizen Username: Kingofnj Post Number: 18 Registered: 2-2004 |
I don't care where you go -- just stay out of the smoke if you're going to complain about it. You're smart enough to know it's bad for you but too self-centered to realize that other people don't mind or even enjoy a cigarette. If some of us want to sit in the middle of a smoke cloud it's our decision. BUTT out. I'm glad you've compiled all these great facts but let everyone else worry about their own health. Who made you the King of health and smoking? I AM THE KING!! The King has spoken. Long live the King. | ||
| mickey Citizen Username: Mickey Post Number: 247 Registered: 10-2001 |
jamie, don't let these windbags get you down. the king and libby can't let a single post go by without responding with some short-sighted comment. libby is posting so much i almost think he's trying to convince himself of his own argument, or... he realizes how little ground he has to stand on. anyway, thank you jamie, for introducing this thread and for your efforts to inform us on how to contact our representatives. and thank you to the civil posters, either for or against the ban, for your comments. i'm done on this topic until the next thread. hopefully it will be when we celebrate a smoke free nj. king, i do hope you live long, but if you really want to live longer, quit the sticks and stay away from second hand smoke. | ||
| SO Refugee Citizen Username: So_refugee Post Number: 68 Registered: 2-2005 |
Have any of the smokers tried the new Bravo cigarettes recently advertised? I'm curious how the dried lettuce stacks up against the real thing... | ||
| jamie Moderator Username: Jamie Post Number: 832 Registered: 6-2001 |
Just seems to me that any product that causes about 445 new cases of lung cancer every day shouldn't be allowed in a public place. Hopefully we won't have to argue about this after tomorrow!!! | ||
| Lydia Supporter Username: Lydial Post Number: 983 Registered: 5-2001 |
Mickey - Really well said - thanks. | ||
| Duncan Supporter Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 3973 Registered: 12-2001  |
And as for the crowds outside the Gate if a ban passed? They are already there, tryin to get a friggin cell signal. Libertarian...I appreciate your passion on this topic but your naivety is overwhelming. As Tom said, the slippery slope theory does not apply here. This is an issue of greater scope than people who wear orange, or eat garlic or any of the other examples you posted. The right of free speech applies right up til you scream fire in a packed movie theater. Or say you have a bomb on a plane. (in keeping with the not quite relevant analogies of the previous posts...  Letting establishments decide is a decent idea, but in looking at the successes in both NYC and Ma. why not? I am more concerned about the Times cover article this morning about "pre-packaged news" than I am about my liberties being challenged by an anti smoking bill. Plus I am a non smoker/once was a HEAVY smoker. And I know that when I go into either the Gate or The Bagel Chateau or even the diner and people are smoking, I will exercise my right to leave. But if I am jonesin for a shephards pie there are not a lot of choices in town.. | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 594 Registered: 3-2004 |
I appreciate your passion on this topic but your naivety is overwhelming what is naive about letting business owners decide how they want to run their own businesses? i think your lack of concern about your personal liberties is the example of naivtee that you are looking for. he realizes how little ground he has to stand on. i have very solid ground to stand on, its called the bill of rights. a document that you seem to advocate putting restrictions into. | ||
| Kathy Leventhal Citizen Username: Kml Post Number: 40 Registered: 9-2001 |
The Hearing on the Senate Clean Indoor Air Act is in progress at: www.njleg.state.nj.us At top center of screen click - View/Listen to live proceedings. Then, click Senate: Health, Human Services and Senior Citizens. Kathy Leventhal Maplewood Township Committee | ||
| jamie Moderator Username: Jamie Post Number: 834 Registered: 6-2001 |
ugh the feed was cut off when they were taking the vote. I heard three yes votes - then it cut off. From the testimony I heard - this committee should pass it. Their concern was based on health, moreso then economics. | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 202 Registered: 7-2004  |
I am for the choice to smoke in bars. Why should people be forced out of their choice to smoke at the bar? For those so bothered by the smoke, there is the simple solution to stay out of these establishments that offer smoking availability. If the demand for smoke-free bars is so high, why have we not seen more of them open? I don't recall ever being at a bar in NJ where smoking was not allowed. This tells me that those who own the businesses have decided to run them with smokers welcome. Why should we impede on the rights of the owner to run the business the way he sees fit? I don't see how non-smokers can go on such a crusade to stop people from making the choice to smoke. If you go to a gun range, you don't step in the line of fire and complain that people are shooting and you can get hurt. You stay out of the line of fire. The same way you do not enter a place that you know is smoking and complain about the smoke. This is about freedom of choice. You choose to smoke, you choose where you go out, and you choose if you want to go to a place that allows smoking. God bless the freedom of choice, and may the special interest groups never take it away! | ||
| Kramer Citizen Username: Kramer Post Number: 96 Registered: 9-2002 |
Let's put out a hypothetical - say cigarettes never existed. Then some company came along and introduced a product that contained many carcinogens, was one of the most addictive products on the earth and would eventually kill 1/3 of the people that used it. Do you think legislation would be enacted to allow product in enclosed public places? | ||
| Matt Foley Citizen Username: Mattfoley Post Number: 107 Registered: 6-2004 |
When I lost my job 15 months ago, a friend who owns a bar in NY let me bartend/bounce off the books while I was looking. I am a smoker. But, I have to admit the non-smoking atmosphere was great. I did not smell like a coal mine when I went home at night. Nobody seemed to complain about the go outside rule. In the few months I worked there I never heard nor saw anyone walk out on a check. I did not miss puffing on a butt at all. In fact this made it easier to convince myself that I could quit if I wanted to. While I have yet to stop, I know I can. I'm all for smoke free public places. It IS a dirty habit and deadly and should be banned. | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 203 Registered: 7-2004 |
Kramer, that is a silly question. I'll put this to you. If alcohol were invented today, do you think there would be much more heavily regulated and restricted given the knowledge of drunk driving, alcoholism, and public intoxication? Just the same as the answer is yes to the cigarettes, it is to alcohol. But this doesn't mean we should outlaw either one of them. These things are part of our culture, and really are about personal choices. Matt, I am surprised to hear a smoker complain about smoke at the bar. Since this is an issue for you have you considered a change in atmosphere? I strongly believe that if you do not like the smell of smoke an establishment that you should leave and patronize a place more to your liking. It gets me a little agitated when people sit in an area they know is smoking and complain about the smoke. I say to you complainers, remove yourself from the location! Instead of aggravating a sizable minority of the population, why don't you just find a place more to your liking? | ||
| Lydia Supporter Username: Lydial Post Number: 985 Registered: 5-2001 |
Mayor MC, Let's take away the hypothetical situations and deconstruct smoking cigarettes. Inhaling burning tobacco is one method of supplying nicotine to the bloodstream via the lungs. Other methods of receiving nicotine are chewing tobacco, nicotine-fortified gum, or the patch. Smoking isn't only about getting the nicotine, there is value to the smoker inherent in the smoking ritual. The act of lighting up, inhaling and exhaling and seeing the smoke is part of the enjoyment. I read about a study years ago that concluded that when smokers couldn't see the smoke the process was much less satisfying for them. Smoking in a group while relaxing and drinking alcohol is also an easy way to establish comaraderie with strangers who also smoke - it's a conversation opener ("can I bum a cigarette" is less forward than "can I buy you a drink?") It's something to do if you're alone, it can give you a quick head rush, etc etc. Smoking cigarettes is very complicated and layered - it's not just about the drug, or clean air, there is a lot of value in smoking for the smoker, but I don't think the arguments for smoking in enclosed places can trump the basic fact that exhaling smoke pollutes the indoor air for everyone breathing it, and that is not cool. | ||
| drewdix Citizen Username: Drewdix Post Number: 857 Registered: 7-2001 |
well this sailed through committee 7-0. The only thing missing (!) from the S-L article this morning is what the next steps are. Anyone know the procedure? | ||
| Dave Citizen Username: Dave Post Number: 5598 Registered: 4-1998  |
Goes to Senate for full vote, then Assembly. Few elected officials will want to be "anti-workplace-health" so it will likely pass. |
