| Author | Message | ||
     jamie Moderator Username: Jamie Post Number: 836 Registered: 6-2001  |
The Senate has a meeting on Monday, I'm not positive if it will be brought up then, might know later in the week if it's on the agenda. Then to the Assembly who has the next month and a half off. So unfortunately, I don't think we'll get the full vote til May sometime. | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 204 Registered: 7-2004  |
This could be a great opportunity for South Orange. If the state bans smoking, South Orange could allow it by town ordinance. The bars in the area could pick up extra business, so tax revenues would increase leading to less of a tax burden on the current population. Anyway, it seems apparent that the anti-smoker crusaders will force smokers to streets. Already in New York there has been at least one killing over this. I wonder how this might impact crime in the areas of local late night establishments. I think that the last thing this town needs is intoxicated people out in the streets at 1:30am. So, I might as well say in advance congratulations to the anti-smoking communists out there. You could find no one willing to make a smoke free bar environment for you, so you made sure that your will was imposed on everyone. Including those bar owners who want to allow smoking. Three cheers for the beginning of the end of liberty. | ||
| Robert Livingston Citizen Username: Rob_livingston Post Number: 963 Registered: 7-2004 |
My friend who works for one the bigger restaurant groups in NYC said that for a few weeks following the smoking ban, numbers were down. Now, however, they are generally the same or higher than pre-ban numbers. All the employees are much happier (and, undoubtedly, healthier). It'll be good when NJ passes this. The state's already kind of viewed as the polluted ashtray of the country. People on this board such as McCheese are acting as if smoking was being outlawed outright. | ||
| drewdix Citizen Username: Drewdix Post Number: 860 Registered: 7-2001 |
There are many new customers in NY places-- and the sale of food in these joints is up, esp. eating at the bar (one of my favorite things to do- when I was smoking or not). Although food is much lower margin, if it's NEW people buying anything, it's plus business. | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 206 Registered: 7-2004 |
Well, if smoking were to be outlawed, this would be the first step in doing so. Also, this state is viewed as an ashtray not because of smoking, so a ban won't help the image. This is not just a ban on smoking; this is a ban on freedom of choice. If I were to open a bar and want to allow smoking, and my customers wanted to smoke in my bar why should anyone else tell me differently? If I choose to not allow smoking at the bar that is fine too. I love America because in this great country of ours, we have freedom to choose. We can choose if we want to walk down the street at night, we can choose if we want to open a bar and allow smoking, and we can choose if we want to open a bar and not allow it. And I will repeat myself, if smoking is such a problem, why don't we see any bars open that ban smoking voluntarily? If you want to open a place that does not allow smoking, good for you, this is America you can do that. | ||
| apm Citizen Username: Apm Post Number: 234 Registered: 5-2001 |
I don't think a restaurant would do it voluntarily because the smokers would go elsewhere. These smokers orders drinks and that is where the profit margin is. If there was a state-wide ban then it would level the playing field because no one could smoke. Not much choice but it is very healthy. | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 207 Registered: 7-2004 |
So then we can agree that smokers are valuable costomers to bars/restaurants. So we should make the playing field level and alienate these valued customers. And, while we are at it, why don't we really make the playing field level and force all place to serve everything at the same prices. We should just let a special interest group of non-smokers decide what is best for everyone everyday. 1984 here we come. | ||
| Kramer Citizen Username: Kramer Post Number: 97 Registered: 9-2002 |
Mayor McCheese - please include some positive info on second hand smoke to back up your stance. This doesn't come close to 1984. The government has a duty to protect the health of its citizens. | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 209 Registered: 7-2004 |
Yes, the government has a right to protect its citizen’s health. But I don't think that this should cover the health of those who enter a place where they know smoking is allowed. As I have been saying, if there really is a need for some people to escape the evil perils of second hand smoke, don't go to places where you will find it! Don't complain and make laws until you get your way, do something about it now. Open a restaurant or a bar that does not allow smoking. As a smoker I probably will not frequent this place because I prefer an environment that allows me to smoke if I so choose. Kramer, I have never said that I have positive information on second hand smoke. And while I am not sure that second hand smoke is as bad as some extremists make it out to be, I am fairly certain that it probably has some sort of bad effects on people. My stance is that of freedom of choice. The choice to open a place to your liking, smoking or non, the choice to go to these places smoking or non. All I am saying is that we should not force everyone to comply to the same rules on this because it is a violation of civil liberties and I believe that the owner, not the state should decide how they would like to run their business. | ||
| trapper Citizen Username: Trapper Post Number: 131 Registered: 8-2002 |
Man walks into a bar, takes his seat as he orders a beer and an ashtray. From his pocket, he produces a pad of 3M Post-It notes. The man tears off a note, rolls it into a tight log and lights it on fire. While it's burning in the ashtray, he takes another and repeats the act, lighting the piece of paper and watching it burn in the ashtray. "What are you doing?" the puzzled patron next to him asked? "I'm setting little tiny fires in an ashtray." "Why??" "I like to set tiny little fires and the smell of burning paper is very enjoyable to me." "Well, cut it out, it bothers me." "If you don't like it, then leave. This is a smoker's haven. If you don't like people setting tiny little fires and creating smokey environments, then LEAVE!! This is America, fella. We have FREEDOM of tiny little smokey fires in bars!!!" | ||
| Strings Supporter Username: Blue_eyes Post Number: 441 Registered: 4-2004  |
I strongly agree with the Mayor's last paragraph in his 2:27pm post... and I would like to reiterate that I am a non-smoker who would enjoy a smoke-free bar, but I also feel that taking away one little thing at a time could lead to a very dangerous and scary place. | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 210 Registered: 7-2004 |
Trapper, I think you finally get it. This is america. If someone sits down next to you and starts burning little papers, LEAVE. Thank god that you live in America where you have to choice to sit there and laugh at this person, or the choice to get up and walk out. (After you pay your bill of course) | ||
| Valentine Michael Smith Citizen Username: Umbert Post Number: 103 Registered: 3-2004  |
Strings, I have a question... Would you say cigarette smoke is poisonous? | ||
| Kramer Citizen Username: Kramer Post Number: 98 Registered: 9-2002 |
ok, so why should we let a known carcinogen in a public place? I just don't get it. | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 601 Registered: 3-2004  |
a restaurant or a bar is NOT a public place. it is a private business. they receive no public funding. your taxes do not directly support his business. you are attempting to tell a private business owner how to operate his private business. | ||
| trapper Citizen Username: Trapper Post Number: 134 Registered: 8-2002 |
Local_1_crew: "you are attempting to tell a private business owner how to operate his private business." Of course. By the way, there are people who regulate and mandate that certain business practices are followed. Private businesses are not free to do whatever they like. Ya know? It's called Society. Government. The protection of the greater good. Now go vote for a Librarian. | ||
| Dave Citizen Username: Dave Post Number: 5603 Registered: 4-1998  |
We all hope government inspectors pay regular visits to restaurant kitchens to ensure sanitary conditions are maintained. No smoking rules simply extend health concerns to the people who work there as well as the diners. Typically a 30 foot walk out the door to smoke isn't going to kill anyone. | ||
| bets Supporter Username: Bets Post Number: 1044 Registered: 6-2001  |
Wouldn't it be nice if legislators could focus all this energy on passing sane emissions laws? If we want to ban carcinogens in public places, why not start with something that will really benefit the public? Of course, that would be detrimental to Big Business, so Government must continue to pick on the Little Guys to prove their worth. | ||
| bottomline Citizen Username: Bottomline Post Number: 194 Registered: 8-2003 |
Libertarian, You took issue with those who are, “attempting to tell a private business owner how to operate his private business.” I am coming late to this debate, but I am very curious to learn more about your philosophy concerning regulation of private businesses. Suppose I run a long-haul trucking company, sending fully loaded semis all over the place. I decide it’s cheaper for me to hire unlicensed drivers. Also, I save money the quicker we make our deliveries so I tell my drivers to go as fast as they can, especially on the freeways. Sixty, seventy, eighty miles an hour -- whatever they can do. Then the cops start busting my guys for speeding. And I start getting a raft of wrongful death lawsuits because my trucks have been wiping out families in their teensy-weensy little cars. Needless to say, these acts of government intervention interfere with my business model and cost me money. So I tell the cops and the plaintiffs to p**s off because they shouldn’t be interfering with a business owner running his private business. Is that a fair summary of the libertarian philosophy about regulating businesses? Please enlighten us. | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 604 Registered: 3-2004 |
if you cant see the difference between your absurd example and what is being discussed then there is no explaining it to you. |
