| Author | Message | ||
     Maplewoody Citizen Username: Maplewoody Post Number: 261 Registered: 5-2001 |
The loser President of ours is taking August off! (and campaigning in 6 states during his vacation). He should stay put in steamy DC until they find Osama and Saddam....preferably dead! He came out against Gay marriages yesterday! I'd like to marry my partner (of 25 yrs.) in my own country and not have to fly to another country like the 2 dudes on the cover of today's NY Post did. Is it really 2003 or 1953??? Voting DEAN in 2004! | ||
| Nlanzieri Citizen Username: Nlanzieri Post Number: 133 Registered: 1-2003 |
If 2 people are happy, truly in love, have good family values and want become great parents someday then they should be allowed to marry whom ever they wish. BTW, I am a proud republican. | ||
| Nohero Citizen Username: Nohero Post Number: 1880 Registered: 5-2001  |
Maybe on his vacation, the President can read all those national security assessments that, apparently, nobody ever has any time to read at the White House. | ||
| Dave Ross Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 4939 Registered: 5-2001  |
Here's part of the Pope's language: "Allowing children to be adopted by persons living in such (homosexual) unions would actually mean doing violence to these children ... (placing) them in an environment that is not conducive to their full human development." Doing violence? No, Mr. Pope, the memo is not about priests adopting children.... Once again, organized religion demonstrating its complete irrelevance to society. | ||
| tjohn Citizen Username: Tjohn Post Number: 1602 Registered: 12-2001  |
Interesting. One could argue that denying priests the right to marry is not conducive to their full human development as well. | ||
| us2innj Citizen Username: Us2innj Post Number: 803 Registered: 5-2001 |
Please don't get me going on a rant about the Vatican. It took them weeks to issue an unbelievably timid statement about children being abused by the clergy, but was able to come out with an incredibly strong twelve-page doctrine about gay people. Calling on American politicians to repeal recent rulings, and counter possible new legislation, is sticking their jewel-covered noses where they don't belong. They have placed the label of "deviant" on me and all those like me. | ||
| tjohn Citizen Username: Tjohn Post Number: 1604 Registered: 12-2001 |
And I thought that the matter was settled long ago as follows: "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's." Child-abusers are a matter for Caesar. The child-abuse issue should have been so simple - zero tolerance, notify the local DA. Instead, it has become a no-win mess for the Catholic Church. | ||
| -af Citizen Username: Java_drinker Post Number: 244 Registered: 8-2002 |
Hold it, hold it. Since when do we take the Vatican’s lead (or for that matter, any religious institution) on such matters? If marriage is a social institution that the church gets no say whatsoever and if it is a religious institution, what the hell is the government doing in it? You can’t have your cake and eat it too when it comes to Church/State. | ||
| Robert Little Citizen Username: Boblittle Post Number: 29 Registered: 4-2003  |
Although marriage has significance as a religious matter, as a governmental matter it's primarily a legal and taxation arrangement. Given that gay relationships are going to exist, and that the government has a stake in assuring that these legal and tax issues run smoothly, why shouldn't the government offer something that approximates marriage to similarly situated people? Perhaps libertarians should favor eliminating the legal and taxation aspects of marriage, that is, eliminating marriage as a legal construct. What I don't understand is why anyone--gay or straight--would want to get married. (Full disclosure: I'm married myself, but that was a youthful indiscretion.) References to "extending the advantages of marriage to gays" confuse me. I can't figure out what those advantages are, maybe cause my wife enjoys all the advantages in our marriage. There really aren't that many legal or financial advantages and they pale in the face of the basket of regulations that come with your marriage license, such as the divorce process one must go through before dividing your property or remarrying. That said, although Bush is against gay marriage and eliminating marriage, I was encouraged by his comment on "those who may try to take the speck out of their neighbor's eye when they got a log in their own." Robert Little | ||
| newjerz Citizen Username: Newjerz Post Number: 52 Registered: 5-2003 |
Three questions/comments. 1. If you are not Catholic, why do you care what the Vatican says about anything or how they label homosexuals, divorces, etc.? While the issue of Priest mollestation is certainly a matter that should involve the legal system, all other issues involving Catholic Church doctrine seem like they should be dealt with internally. 2. I think that Democrats' frusteration with George Bush can give them a little bit of insight into how Republicans felt about Clinton. The level of distrust and anger towards both men is certainly too high for the substance of their policies. 3. If there are no real "advantages" to marriage and two gay people are committed to each other and make promises of fidelity to each other, why does it matter if government acknowledges this as marriage? Why do gays care whether society approves of their lifestyle? It seems that it is this societal approval rather than the actual legal "benefits" that gays want. Constitutionally, legalizing gay marriages is probably the right thing to do, but I think it will take a long time for a broad sector of our society to grant that seal of approval to gay relationships in general. One can acknowledge a person's right to conduct themselves however they want, without approving of that conduct. | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 1662 Registered: 9-2001 |
"You can’t have your cake and eat it too when it comes to Church/State." A little off topic, but I'm not so sure about who's getting what cake, and then getting to eat it as well... How about The Church of Ladder Day Saints and the Municipal Land Use Laws? I believe I heard somewhere that the LDS is the third largest owner of real estate in the country??? In this day and age, why is it that religious institutions still need the tax breaks? All religions around the globe have been doing a number on us since the beginning of time! Their influence and power in government and on people in general is absolutely amazing. I mean just look at the wars fought in the name of God... Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying punish religions, I think it just may be time to look at trying to level the playing field a little. | ||
| tjohn Citizen Username: Tjohn Post Number: 1607 Registered: 12-2001 |
Societal approval aside, legalizing gay marriages would simplify matters of insurance benefits and estate planning. Estate planning, joint home ownership and insurance arrangements are more complicated for unmarried partners. | ||
| jet Citizen Username: Jet Post Number: 230 Registered: 7-2001 |
Whats more disfunctional the Vatican or the British Monarchy? | ||
| newjerz Citizen Username: Newjerz Post Number: 53 Registered: 5-2003 |
Columbia High School since 1992-93 Camden Newark | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 1079 Registered: 5-2001 |
this has become the thread drift thread. Here's salon.com's take today on anti-Bush strategies for 2004:
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| Insite Citizen Username: Insite Post Number: 98 Registered: 10-2002 |
and Bush hates you. | ||
| lumpyhead Citizen Username: Lumpyhead Post Number: 352 Registered: 3-2002 |
And so does the Pope.  | ||
| mem Citizen Username: Mem Post Number: 1824 Registered: 5-2001  |
I just wish he would slot a teeny weeny bit of our tax dollars that go to the "Funding for All That Stuff Happening Way Over There In Iraq" to our school system right here in the good ole USA, i.e., SOMA. Thank you. | ||
| -af Citizen Username: Java_drinker Post Number: 245 Registered: 8-2002 |
and what the hell is he doing at the press conf. saying " first off, we're all sinners"? Is this guy the President or a priest? keep your religion and your religious views out of my bedroom. and for gosh sake, stop pissing off the WORLD. | ||
| Brett Citizen Username: Bmalibashksa Post Number: 17 Registered: 7-2003 |
Personally I like Bush. I don’t have kids so I’m not worried about schools (yet). The tax cuts actually helped me get venture capital for my company. I was in the Navy so I think that sometimes we do need to go to war. The terror prediction market was foolish but it was an attempt. I don’t think he’s stupid, he is the most powerful man in the world; I just wish that he didn’t say stupid things all the time. I can’t figure out why the government would even care about marriage, I can’t even figure out a precedent it would set that would be bad. |
