| Author | Message | ||
     sbenois Citizen Username: Sbenois Post Number: 10163 Registered: 10-2001  |
PLease join me in calling for an immediate end to the occupation of Iraq. It's time to pull out. ---> Brought to you by Sbenois Engineering LLC <---- | ||
| Nohero Citizen Username: Nohero Post Number: 1937 Registered: 5-2001  |
If our government would be willing to work with the U.N., we could still get a genuine multi-national collaboration of nations involved in the rehabilitation and redevelopment of Iraq. Unfortunately, to date that is a big "if" ... | ||
| sbenois Citizen Username: Sbenois Post Number: 10164 Registered: 10-2001 |
We need the UN to get the heck in there. Let France do the work. It's time for an isolationist policy for the USA ---> Brought to you by Sbenois Engineering LLC <---- | ||
| Nohero Citizen Username: Nohero Post Number: 1938 Registered: 5-2001 |
S. - Who the heck are you talking to? You usually don't resort to debating straw-men. | ||
| Dave Ross Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 4993 Registered: 5-2001  |
It's quite interesting how the scope of the war has migrated from "opening free markets in Iraq" to "leaving as soon as possible" (preferably right after Haliburton's no-bid contracts expire). We no longer have any credibility in the world. Just an army. Nice short term plan, just like the "tax breaks." | ||
| REBORN STRAW Citizen Username: Strawberry Post Number: 928 Registered: 10-2001 |
delete | ||
| Carl Thompson Citizen Username: Topcat Post Number: 9 Registered: 4-2003  |
You’re dreaming, sbenois. Bush has done what no Democratic president could ever have imagined: set the U.S. on a long-term course of massive nation-building. It’s a classic case of co-opting the opposition, just like Nixon going to China. Recall that Bush has also committed personally to achieving peace in Israel and Palestine. And Condoleza Rice gave a speech last week in which she called for a “generational commitment” to rebuilding and modernizing the entire Mideast. (Do you think she was just speaking for herself?) This administration is out to reshape the world by military and non-military means. We’re in this for the long haul. It’s a done deal. As many people have observed, if the U.S. were to pull out of Iraq now we would have no credibility left in the world. However, a sudden withdrawal might be a good way to find those missing weapons of mass destruction. They would reappear, along with Saddam Hussein, as soon as the last of the U.S. Army left Iraqi shores. | ||
| Dave Ross Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 5001 Registered: 5-2001 |
(in case anyone's wondering, that was a self-delete just above) | ||
| tjohn Citizen Username: Tjohn Post Number: 1639 Registered: 12-2001  |
Hussein wouldn't reappear, at least not as overall dictator, but Iraq would collapse into civil war with a minimum of three major warring groups and numerous splinter groups. | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 1732 Registered: 9-2001 |
Hold on.... there's some things that are not clear in these conversations. This is all moving a little fast for me! So as long as this is the Soapbox, it’s now my turn Sbenois... As someone who has spent a good amount of time on the road tracking people down, I have found a few rules of the road that have proven to be most successful when it's late at night, when I'm getting tired, and if a fog begins to set in on the road I’m traveling on. As I start to lose my visibility, I go to my emergency plan for survival. It's really easy as A, B, C. A. The first thing to do is ask myself the following questions: 1. Do I still see clearly where I'm going? 2. Do I really know exactly where I'm going? 3. How long will it take me to get there? 4. Is there any reason I need to get there immediately? B. If the answers to most questions are negative I immediately do the following: 1. I slow down as fast and as safely as I can. 2. I avoid the left or right sides of the road. 3. I look for, and then get in the middle of the road. C. If the visibility really starts to get bad, and I start losing sight of the white line, I know it's time to: 1. Look for help and a safe spot and park. 2. Get off the road and out of harms way. 3. Wait until the visibility begins to clear again. Personally, I believe these simple common sense rules of the road also apply to our situation in Iraq at the moment. I’m not saying it will be just as easy as A - B – C, but if our mission in Iraq is getting foggy, and we’re not sure where we’re going, or how long it will it take to get there, plus there’s really no obvious reason to get there immediately, then: It’s probably time to slow down the search and destroy missions as fast and as safely as possible. Avoid the politics to far left or right, and move more to the middle of the road. Then before the Sbenois Plan becomes the law of the land, (which it probably will) begin demanding help from our allies, find several safe locations in the country out of harms way, and fortify those positions. Then we must intensify all diplomatic negations, and wait until the visibility begins to clear again before moving forward. Whatever we do, we cannot pick up and run again… This is a just war and an honorable cause, and if necessary it must be a fight to the death. Either we WIN, by that I mean to accomplish exactly what we set out to do, or else die trying. In other words this is not just about our military at risk, we’re all at risk. We ALL must run the risk of sacrificing our lives trying... Ask yourself, go ahead and think about this for a minute… What is it you really fear about this war, and then ask what greater cause can there be than to sacrifice your life for your family or your country? I believe the answer is obvious… IMHO, there can be no turning back from our responsibilities as the worlds only super power, and the only nation willing to fight for human rights. The expectations on this nation are overwhelming, and the price to pay is high. The moral justification is honorable; the goal is Democracy, World Peace, and an eventual end to all Wars, Terror, and all WOMD. Look at your loved ones, your family, and your friends. What chance do they have for peace in their future if we fail to act? Ask yourself if you would have wanted to live with them in Iraq before the war? The human race on this planet deserves the right to freedom, and our nation is the only viable means to that end. Like it or not, I believe it’s this country's God given destiny. If this is too much for some of you to consider, if the goals are to high and the risks to great, then step aside peaceably; war not among ourselves, or with those among us willing to make this noble fight... Remember, right is might, and this is America's time in history. We must do all we can to do the right thing... This message is being brought to you by ... Ajc, War for Peace Associates, Limited. | ||
| James Citizen Username: Mcgregorj Post Number: 24 Registered: 7-2003 |
AJC said: "Whatever we do, we cannot pick up and run again… This is a just war and an honorable cause, and if necessary it must be a fight to the death. Either we WIN, by that I mean to accomplish exactly what we set out to do, or else die trying. In other words this is not just about our military at risk, we’re all at risk. We ALL must run the risk of sacrificing our lives trying.." Ummm... didn't El Presidente Bush say the war was over? Funny, eh? | ||
| tjohn Citizen Username: Tjohn Post Number: 1640 Registered: 12-2001 |
And that would be a fine example of the empty rhetorics in vogue with politicians since time immemorial. It is empty, because it doesn't directly and comprehensively address the key question. The key question is this: Is Iraq the right war at the right time in the right place? It is the right war at the right time in the right place if, and only if, there is some vital national interest that can only be guaranteed by means of war. I do not believe that Iraq meets that test. Containment of Iraq, imperfect as it was, was preventing Hussein from rearming in any meaningful way. The idea that all humans deserve freedom and democracy is true enough. Unfortunately, freedom and democracy, unlike dictatorships, do not come from the barrel of a gun. They come from the heart and are protected, when necessary, by the gun. | ||
| anon Citizen Username: Anon Post Number: 759 Registered: 6-2002 |
Art: Don't you ask yourself: "When I get there, will I find a place to park?  | ||
| montagnard Citizen Username: Montagnard Post Number: 20 Registered: 6-2003 |
Yes, winning like the Romans in Northern Europe, the Spaniards in Latin America, Napoleon in Russia, Britain in India, and so many other great empires with a progressive and civilizing mission. Perhaps there may be no other path to tread, but to rush headlong? | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 1737 Registered: 9-2001 |
“Unfortunately, freedom and democracy, unlike dictatorships, do not come from the barrel of a gun. They come from the heart and are protected, when necessary, by the gun.” Very poetic Tjohn, but meaningless... a fine example of the empty rhetoric!  | ||
| duncanrogers Citizen Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 661 Registered: 12-2001  |
(DELETED) | ||
| Hank Zona Citizen Username: Hankzona Post Number: 686 Registered: 3-2002 |
Slap a white suit on that George Bush in flight gear doll and it looks more like Ricardo Montalban of "Fantasy Island" fame...amazing coincidence. "Boss...de plane, de plane!!" | ||
| ml1 Citizen Username: Ml1 Post Number: 1192 Registered: 5-2002  |
does this mean the S-3B Viking cockpit will now be outfitted in rich, Corinthinan leather? | ||
| jem Citizen Username: Jem Post Number: 761 Registered: 5-2001  |
Quien es el mas macho hombre en todo el mundo? | ||
| duncanrogers Citizen Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 663 Registered: 12-2001 |
Steven Segal |
