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M-SO Message Board » The Attic (1999-2002) » Education » Elimination of 4th and 5th grade instrumental music? » Archive through January 27, 2001 « Previous Next »

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Mck
Posted on Friday, January 26, 2001 - 7:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Time for some creative counter attack. CHARTER SCHOOLS. The NJ law provides that any functioning school can become a charter school if 51% of the parents and teachers vote yes. Think about Clinton as the Louis Armstrong Academy. Think about SB as the Howard Gardner Institute. Parents in charge, not administrators. I am absolutely serious. The District now is in a strait jacket, and parents can be helpless victims, still whining about more money, or can take their fate into their own hands.
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Lisat
Posted on Friday, January 26, 2001 - 8:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mck,
I want to hear more about this charter school business. Start a meeting. I have a child in public school here and I've visited a bunch of private schools lately to see what they're offering. I came away from one of the most admired thinking -- hey, we could do that in these schools.

There's a garden behind one school. (One of the best public schools in NYC has a garden, too.) And all kinds of science/environmental lessons are supported by the garden. Even though I'm not a gardener (garden-killer, more like it), I thought parents here could do this. And it could support the curriculum.

With all the writers, artists, musicians, scientists, etc. who want to be involved and have flexible schedules, why not do more to make our public schools as exciting and enriching as the private ones I've visited? Why can't children start the day singing together like they do at Farbrook and Darcy?

The reasons so many of us are here in this town are for the diversity -- racial, ethnic, cultural, etc. I wanted to be surrounded by people who are dancing to their own drummer.

The benefits of more standarized testing is suspect. The teachers' abilities to assess our children accurately using their hamstringing charts is suspect. But the benefits of music, art, dance, etc. are undeniable if not always quantifiable.

Tell us more about charter schools. Or at the very least let's start a volunteer program that can really integrate with the curriculum and provide ongoing enriching lessons and experiences. It's cheaper than 17K per year per child for private school. And you get to spend time with the kids.
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Tom
Posted on Friday, January 26, 2001 - 9:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great ideas, all. Sac, true, we do agree. As I recall, my school didn't start until 5th grade, though other districts in the area started earlier.

Has anyone considered what moving the beginner classes to the middle schools might do to the secondary school programs?
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Manley
Posted on Friday, January 26, 2001 - 9:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We have a 1 million dollar deficit for this year.Spending for Seth Boyden alone has cost over $300.000 for staff and portables.There was never a cap on the number of students allowed to enroll at the school.The budget for busing has increased from $600,000 to $2,000,000.The hiring of 8 administrators cost another $1.1 million.The alternative school is closing after the district spent about $800,000 on a private company to run the school and bring Montrose school to code.
Beside music being cut,the district is cutting three teacher in business and industrial arts.The kids from the alternative school will return to Columbia in the fall.These are the same kids who need hands on activities like keyboarding and shop.
The BOE friendly spending policy for the Superintendent has to stop.If we cut two administrators, we can save the music program and 1 industrial technology teacher.
Cutting the Director of Human Resources is a big mistake.We need the best and brightest teachers in our district especially in math and science.Last years teachers fair had a large turnout.What should be cut are the 2 Coordinators of Communications and Community Resources. The position of Director of Elementary Education,and Supervisor of Elementary Education should be combined to save $100,000.
A healthy and happy child must have a combination of social,mental,and physical program.Save programs,eliminate administrators.
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Us2innj
Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 7:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How come the Alternative School is closing? It wasn't long ago that that debate monopolized this board.
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Ros
Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 7:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tom-
In Montclair, elementary instrumental music was eliminated (except for one school)when they went to magnet schools. Friends there tell me the rest of the program is horrible-low involvement in middle school and poor quality of the bands overall. Anyone who has taught beginners in 4th grade and beginners in 6th grade (like me) wouldn't be surprised.
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Ffof
Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 8:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does anyone know if they are planning to eliminate the elementary Assisstant Principal positions? These positions definitely seem expendable and probably add up to quite a sum (5 asst. princ x $90,000 = $450,000!)
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Debby
Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 9:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Manley-
Could you tell us more about the alternative school closing? I wasn't aware of this. Thanks

P.S. What is the financial impact of ending this program?
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Manley
Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 9:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The alternative high school will save $416,000.It will be saved if another funding program is found.We can use the building to relieve the secondary school space.The alternative school is under review at this moment.
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Mck
Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 10:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lisat: I am far from an expert on charter schools. but I'll tell you the little that I know. Contact the State Dept of Ed for details.
Charter schools are intended to provide room for varied and innovative approaches to public ed. In NJ, so far, they have all been started from scratch, but I hear that the State is dying for someone to take advantage of a provision that allows existing schools to charter themselves, if 51% of parents and teachers vote for it. The schools are run by parents, as far as i know, who hire teachers, and do all administrative support. It is, obviously, no small matter to undertake. There is some exemption from teacher union rules, I believe. The intent is more freedom and flexibility. 90% of the money the district spends of each child follows that child to the charter school. The Boards of Ed hate charter schools, because they lose some control, and some money. Has to do with the marginal costs of educating children, and other complicated things i don't understand. I do feel sure that it would certainly concentrate the collective mind of the Board and Super were a group of high powered parents decide not to continue enduring death by a thousand cuts any longer. As Manley points out so well, the super has been given a blank check for the last two years, and now the bill is due. I agree with all that the end of instrumental music lessons in 4th and 5th is unacceptable. ON the other hand, those of you who have voted for all this free spending, and who have had nothing to say but, "Spend More!" : have to bear some responsibility for this situation. This has been brewing for years, as Fringe and the other Cassandras have been saying. The fact that the reval hit at the same time makes for a very difficult political climate.
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Ffof
Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 10:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mck and Lisat- It is definitely worth while to look into the charter school option. A few hurdles are 1)I believe the teachers have to give up their union status which means giving up their tenure, and 2) you definitely have to find some private funding to add to the 90% per pupil state money to make a proper go of it.
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Sac
Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 11:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lisat - There is actually some discussion going on about some garden-like or other use of the outdoor space at Seth Boyden. I saw presentation materials about it at a PTA function, but it was not the main topic of the particular meeting and I haven't heard more since then. I was of the impression that they were not looking to use public funds, but instead to seek donations and do much of the work with volunteers, but I don't know for sure. I don't think it is much past the concept stage. Perhaps someone who knows more about this could elaborate, but I just wanted to reinforce the point that some of the kinds of initiatives mentioned can and may already be in the process of being done in our schools. But, it takes community and parent involvement in many cases, since as we are all learning, there isn't enough money to do everything within the budget.
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Ffof
Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 11:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

More on the garden topic - Many know of Tuscan's outdoor amphitheatre and garden that was put in place by some very dedicated parents AND Jefferson has been working on a once defunct "kindercourt" and turning it into a working garden where every class has their own space - all coordinated by yet another very committed group of parents and families. Parent involovement is key to these initiatives, and these types of projects certainly give pride to the students. Unfortunately, I don't know how this solves the 4th/5th grade instrumental problem! It's a shame.
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Spw784
Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 3:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ffof:

I believe the elimination of the Elementary Assistant Principals was listed as a way to make up the deficit. However, I don't think they should all be eliminated. I think the schools with larger enrollments should be allowed to keep theirs, as well as a school such as South Mountain. South Mountain, while "one school" with one staff and one principal, is physically located in two separate buildings, about a mile apart from each other. Having an assistant principal allows the buildings which are crowded (or split as in SM) more pupil contact with the administration. (in a positive manner of course... such as sharing good things, etc.)
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Ucnthndlthtruth
Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 3:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes,
Elimination of asst. princ in all elementary schools part of proposed cuts.
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Ffof
Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 3:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I see your point Spw784 and certainly it seems that the annex needs some administrator position there. ALL the schools have large enrollments and an assistant certainly can help, but I guess in light of cutbacks, it seems logical to cut this fairly new addition to the BOE's budget (accept for the annex!) What did the SM principal do before the asst. princ. position was created? Did one of the staff take on this role?
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Manley
Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 5:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

With the wealth of talented people in both towns it's time to seriously explore school based management and leadership teams for each school.The majority of members will be the parents.There main goal is to establish a comprehensive education plan for each individual school.The team would consist of the principal,teachers,administrators,and parents.They would make recommendations and requests to the board for specific programs.If one school voted to keep music and another wanted to expand computers they would send their proposal to the superintendent for approval.With this method the community at that school will have more say in their children's education.No need for a charter school.This plan can work only if all groups buy into it.Some constituents will be reluctant to give up power and control.
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Nilmiester
Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 5:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

$ 2 million dollars for busing? Busing where and for what reason?
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Shakespeare
Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 9:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hmmmm. Insurance, maybe?
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Nakaille
Posted on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 9:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nil: probably a hefty chunk of the cost for bussing is in insurance. Just a guess. Bussing for class trips? Bussing for special ed? Bussing for football and other teams?

Bacata

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