| Author |
Message |
    
Jennie
| | Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 4:24 pm: |     |
Townie: I should have included "all other things being equal" to clarify the statement that prices go down when taxes go up and vice versa. Of course many factors (demographics, stock market, etc.) go into determination of the purchase price and of course you didn't overpay or underpay as of the moment of sale. But a post reval view of the transaction would add some information that would have changed the purchase price. I guess the impact is greatest the closer the sale to the reval. For example, if I sold my Hilton Ave house for $140,000 last year when the taxes were $6,000, I may have gotten $160,000 if it was known that the property taxes would be $4,000 the next year (made up numbers, but that's the idea). Here's another thought. The fair market value is the price at which property would be exchanged assuming the buyer is aware of all relevant facts. So if you pay $1 million for a house next door to that child molester but don't know it, is the FMV $1 million? And if you pay $600,000 for a house with taxes of $12,000 that will go up to $17,000 the next year but don't know it, is the FMV $600,000? Apparently at least one NJ court has held that the effect of the new taxes cannot be taken into account. But doesn't that just set up lots of assessed values that will be almost immediately ripe for appeal? I guess the assumption is that property will continue to appreciate. We'll see. |
Townie
| | Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 5:38 pm: | |
Jennie,
I think if the market dips or crashes, many people will appeal their assessment, as they should. In my neighborhood, I think the assessments would stay valid through a market downturn, although not a severe market crash. One thing is sure: something really dreadful would have to happen in Maplewood before they went back to what I had before the reval. And I think the train would have to stop running for it to go back to what I paid for it in 1996. However, if some famous social pariah moves in next door to me (with the media camped outside night and day), I'll appeal my assessment because of the impact on the saleability of my house. I think the system is designed to take account of all that -- obnoxious as it is.
By the way, apart from the macro-economic picture and lurking pariahs, I think the market values in Maplewood will largely hold despite the new assessments and imposition of taxes. I actually don't expect to see large numbers of people moving or buyers disappearing. The value of houses in South Orange experienced a similar strong rise in the past few years despite having a noticeably large tax burden attached to each house. The Maplewood tax situation now being closer to South Orange may cool down the bidding wars, as shoppers may feel the two town are more equal (including the S.O. village upgrade). But Maplewood has unique charms and virtues that are hard to find elsewhere so close to Manhattan. What will be interesting to me is what happens when Montclair gets a direct train to Manhattan. I don't expect a rout, but I think shoppers will look for the best buys in both towns. |
Lisat
| | Posted on Monday, January 29, 2001 - 5:11 pm: | |
Harold,
You're hanging out with the wrong crowd if you hear the kind of remarks mentioned in your piece here. I'm one of the people who moved in from NYC. I never considered leaving until I heard about a place, 'Maplewood,' that was racially diverse, full of people who did creative and/or socially valuable work (I don't hate stockbrokers and lawyers, I just don't want an overabundance of them. And of course our 2 towns have a fair number of public advocate lawyers, which is great in my opinion.), and was a quick train trip to NYC. I was really disappointed to learn after moving to the hill that it was not as integrated house by house as South Orange seems to be. When you're moving to a house for the first time, you don't always know how to get the information you want and listen to the realtor more than you should. At least I did. You hear that schools have a healthy mix of 30/70 or 50/50 and you say great. (It did take me 8 phone calls to the school district before I could get anyone to tell me what the reading scores were for the different schools. And in the end they didn't. Little did I know that kind of information was in the paper.)
Anyway, my point is that I (and all of my friends here) wouldn't have moved to a town that wasn't racially/ethnically diverse. We visited on the fourth of July the first time, saw lots of families (quite a few older parents with really young kids, it's nice that my husband isn't called 'Grandpa' here like he is in other suburbs), lots of middle class black families, and all the other great things about Maplewood. Then we bid on a home one week later; the first day we looked.
Jennie,
A neighbor and close friend has a realtor relative in the local area who told her lots and lots of people from Maplewood have called her with plans to put their homes on the market in the Spring. Don't be fooled. Even with the re-reval our taxes are going up 50%. And lots of families with 2 parents working full-time and already stretched finances are wondering if and how they'll stay. $15 to $20K is obscene. Especially when the public school situation is worsening. |
Harold
| | Posted on Monday, January 29, 2001 - 8:49 pm: | |
Lisat, this is NOT a crowd I hang around with.....this is what I hear day in and day out in the Village......
Please explain to me if there is so much diversity in town, why is there none in the Village? |
Kap
| | Posted on Monday, January 29, 2001 - 9:39 pm: | |
No diversity in the village??!! You are talking about Maplewood village, aren't you? |
Harold
| | Posted on Monday, January 29, 2001 - 10:05 pm: | |
??????? Yes, I'm there all week long....which village are you talking about? Its about as racially diverse as our D.P.W., M.F.D., M.P.D., town hall administrators, ...etc. |
Townie
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 8:06 am: | |
Harold,
Do you mean the people who own businesses and work there, or the shoppers and people running errands? It seems to me that some of what the village offers we all use, and some of it is "boutique" and may even be used more frequently by people who don't live in Maplewood than by us on a regular basis. When I go to Valley bank, the movies, the post office, Waterlilies, Celebrated Food and the Village Trattoria, I encounter the most racial diversity among customers (and that was also true when the Cornucopia was a pharmacy); the Village Coffee Shop, the Diner, the movie theater, the bank and the p.o. also seem to me to have the most racially diverse staff. I try to stay out of the ice cream shops and Jacqui's sweets, but I do see people of all colors going in and out. The Bagel Chateau is so full of cigarette smoke, I think only smokers go there, and they are a dwindling bunch. One thing is for sure: every day after school, Maplewood's racially diverse student body hangs out in the village.
In general, Harold, I seldom encounter any of my neighbors in the village except at the post office and the movies. Because of the parking situation, I think a lot of Maplewoodians do most of their shopping elsewhere. For those of us living right above the village in the hills, the village is convenient and fun to walk to. I guess the combination of the huge park and the railroad tracks isolates it coming from the other direction.
There is no question that the areas of Maplewood west of the village are less racially diverse than other areas of Maplewood. Like Lisat, I'm disappointed that the hills near the reservation aren't as integrated house by house as South Orange. But the all-white picture you paint of the hills and the village is a strange exaggeration that doesn't match what people see everyday. |
Mim
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 9:31 am: | |
Absolutely true, Townie -- the village, and the hill above it, is nowhere near as diverse as 'the other side of the tracks' (and I mean that in purely geographic terms!). No one who's walked into Clinton School recently could make such a claim. |
Harold
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 9:51 am: | |
No, not the store owners.....the shoppers.
What is your purpose for exaggerating how diverse the Village is? Is there a point to falsely posting/advertizing this lie? Is this to perpetuate how "there is only ONE Maplewood"?
What about my other comments about the town services....real diverse...gee, better not expose that. |
Njjoseph
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 10:21 am: | |
I think Harold is walking through the village with blinders on. Remember, diversity is not just about race. |
John
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 10:37 am: | |
Harold - Is there a certain percentage that you are looking for, to say that "the Village" is diverse? You say you spend the entire week there. Are you walking around with your eyes closed, or just seeing what you want to? DO YOU LIVE IN Maplewood or BLOOMFIELD?
By the way, EVERYONE should come and see the show at TUSCAN SCHOOL this Friday and Saturday night. I think information is going to all the schools in town. But if anyone wants me to post it here, request it and I'll post it tomorrow. Come have a good time!!
Vic, Jerry, and the rest of the TC, please come, relax, and take your minds off the reval for an hour or so. |
Njjoseph
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 11:08 am: | |
John -- what is the show, and not being a parent, will it be interesting to me as well? |
Townie
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 1:04 pm: | |
Harold,
People keep correcting you because you are not portraying the scene in the village or the surrounding neighborhoods correctly. I don't think we are the ones with the agenda here. What we are saying about racial diversity in Maplewood is not a lie.
As for town services, I know nothing about how diverse they are. Fortunately, I've had little direct experience with them. |
John
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 1:40 pm: | |
The show is called "Together Wherever We Go". It will be Friday 1/2/01 and Saturday 1/3/01 at 7:30 PM.
It is a string of musical numbers (most comic), and will last about one hour followed by light refreshments. Adults, with or without children, will definitely enjoy it (we hope). All children MUST be accompanied by an adult. Admission is free, but of course, donations are appreciated. I'm sure I forgot to mention something. So tonight, after practice (probably around 9:30), I'll start a new thread and post the information again. Thanks for the inquiry Njjoseph, and I hope you can make the show |
Livinwestwless
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 2:42 pm: | |
Oh boy, another myth about "hill". As njjoseph points out, diversity isn't just about race. On our small block between Ridgewood and Wyoming we have: an older black couple, two gay male couples, an asian/white couple with kids, a black/white couple with kids, single seniors, the requisite male/female white couples and tons and tons and tons (when will you people stop breeding!) of kids who all play together. Maybe a majority of the faces are white, but we are a diverse group. I can guarantee that ANYONE who moves to our street who is willing to respect his neighbors will be welcome here. That's the kind of diversity I'm happy to see everyday on the hill; I imagine that people who go around with hate in their hearts and fear in their minds must see something quite different. |
Yvette
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 4:46 pm: | |
It's not just on the "hill" it's on Parker Avenue as well. |
Harold
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 5:32 pm: | |
Let's clear up a few items:
#1, I don't "walk" around the Village, I WORK there, so I think I see and hear a little more than you do.
#2, I've said it before...what you post on this board isn't exactly what you say to me in person...such as about the OTHER side of town.
#3, I didn't think I would get a response from any of you about the lack of diversity in our town services. |
Nicky
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 6:19 pm: | |
Harold:
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "lack of diversity in our town services (city adminstration or store owners?). Please be more specific. |
Townie
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 6:21 pm: | |
Harold,
#1, Walk around the village. It will do your heart good.
#2, I'm sure I've never talked to you, because I never talk about the OTHER side of town.
#3, You got a response from me about the lack of diversity in town services. |
Cfa
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 7:50 pm: | |
Livinwestwless....your block sounds a lot like Maplewood Ave. |
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