| Author |
Message |
    
Mtierney
| | Posted on Thursday, February 1, 2001 - 8:27 pm: |     |
Today's Millburn Item: "Assessment off books until 2002"
"Millburn officials have agreed to hold the township reassessment, completed last year," off the books" until 2002.
"Township Assessor Ernie DelGuercio and members of his staff finished a reassessment in November; in doing the reassessment, they conducted full measurements and inspections of every piece of property in town...
"But soon after the completion, Mr. DelGuercio began to have some concerns, he said. With news in late November of a possible change in the real estate market, he thought it best to wait and see.
..."We were concerned that the economy in 2001 would drop - not to recession proportions - but slow down enough to have an effect on property values.
"...Waiting one year to test township real estate sales against the assessments will let the assessor's office determine whether changing economic conditions had any effect on the real estate market.
"It's a very conservative, very cautions approach," he said.
My reactions to the article which noted Maplewood's problems: Millburn's last reval was in 1984 (Maplewood's in 1981).Millburn has a full time assessor who knew his community and who was sensitive to the residents. We hired an out of town firm which apparently operated without much contact with the TC.
Millburn has the Short Hills Mall. |
Golden
| | Posted on Thursday, February 1, 2001 - 9:09 pm: | |
I understand that Certified completed the reval for Wall Township (Monmouth County)several months ago, and that their numbers were so off base that the town council put the reval off for one year. |
Townie
| | Posted on Thursday, February 1, 2001 - 11:20 pm: | |
Mtierney,
Did the article say anything about whether Milburn has many residents whose property was being overassessed? It seems to me one of the difficulties of putting anything off in Maplewood for two years is being sensitive to residents who've been overcharged in taxes by very large dollar amounts. I've gotten the impression some 25 percent of Maplewood is in that situation. Is there a comparable situation in Milburn? |
Aruba18
| | Posted on Friday, February 2, 2001 - 4:11 am: | |
Mtierney, Townie and Golden: I spoke to some close friends who live in Short Hills, and they said unequivocally that there were many residents whose property was being overassessed. They also said that since there were many, many questions about the methodology used, they wisely decided to hold off until 2002, which will give them time to properly and adequately reassess the numbers. Do you suppose our own TC might also be interested in doing it this way, or in other words, the right way?? |
Townie
| | Posted on Friday, February 2, 2001 - 8:20 am: | |
Why were there questions about the methodology used? They have a full-time assessor. They didn't use Certified. That's interesting. |
Mtierney
| | Posted on Friday, February 2, 2001 - 12:08 pm: | |
From the article in The Item, it appears that the only question regarding Millburn's reval which, as I said had been completed in November by its fulltime tax assessor, was the concern over the 2000 real estate sales bubble. Seeing a softening in the market, Millburn chose to put off their reval, opting to watch the market for a year. Millburn also watched what was happening in Maplewood and our situation helped in their decision. By the way, a house valued at $245,000 in Millburn (there are some) carries a tax bill of $4500. Where in Maplewood would that be the case? Ok, Ok, Millburn has the Short Hills Mall. Even so, Millburn, with its rich commercial base, still decided to take a wait and see attitude because of the impact on homeowners there! |
Townie
| | Posted on Friday, February 2, 2001 - 12:17 pm: | |
A friend of mine has a house in Maplewood that is now valued at $250,000 and he's been paying way more than $4500 because he was being overtaxed. With the revaluation, he's getting tax equity and his tax bill will be lower. So how can we postpone giving him that? Maybe in Millburn, where taxes are lower across the board it seems more acceptable to continue to allow for overtaxing, but I think I wouldn't be very accepting of it if I lived in one of those overassessed houses.
I take it that the $245,000 you mention is the old assessement in Millburn. Not the new one. I gather from reading Jerry Ryan's posts that the Millburn tax assessor didn't tell which homeowners were overpaying and they don't know who they are or what their new assessment was, or how much in taxes they might otherwise be saving this year. Maybe fairtax can help them out!;-] |
Gerardryan
| | Posted on Friday, February 2, 2001 - 3:35 pm: | |
Dave: I went and bought me a Millburn Item, and I would like to post the ENTIRE article. Any objection? |
Teach66
| | Posted on Friday, February 2, 2001 - 4:05 pm: | |
Hmm... Townie "smells" like a TC member to me! |
Dave
| | Posted on Friday, February 2, 2001 - 4:38 pm: | |
post away. |
Townie
| | Posted on Friday, February 2, 2001 - 7:27 pm: | |
Teach 66,
You missed the discussion of me in other threads where I was variously described as a TC member, married to TC member, the partner of the TC, a coward, without integrity, irresponsible, a liar . . . . . Other people have called me nice things, but modesty forbids.
But you're the first to introduce smell into this. Interesting.;<] |
Euclidean
| | Posted on Saturday, February 3, 2001 - 12:01 pm: | |
Tax assessment and sales data is public record information.
I believe that all of the information required to prove a blanket inequity in property tax assessments is publicly available (see www.taxrecords.com) although it might take a little work to pull it all together. That being the case, if there is a neighborhood which has not appreciated as fast as some other neighborhods in Milburn, I would think that they could bring pressure to force the revaluation. |
Aruba18
| | Posted on Saturday, February 3, 2001 - 11:40 pm: | |
Townie-
Your friend in Maplewood could appeal his property taxes and get a reduction, just like anyone can do any year. It doesn't have to take an entire reval to get it done.That way,those who have been overpaying (which they could have appealed before) can file their appeal, and those that have enormous increases (my taxes will go from $13,153.14 to $20,647.00) can benefit from having the entire process checked and re-checked. Doesn't that seem fair to both sides? |
Nakaille
| | Posted on Sunday, February 4, 2001 - 12:04 am: | |
Aruba18/Debby, you keep missing a basic point about those of us who have been overpaying. We did not know. On what basis should I have appealed to the town assessor? "Gee, Mr. Galante, I don't think my house is worth 57K??????" How would I have known that houses worth 2 and 3 times as much as mine on the current market were paying the same taxes I was???? The reval has been overdue for 9 years. It DID take doing the whole town to reveal the inequities. It's about time it was done. Now, go appeal yours if you need to and if your assessment was truly off.
Bacata |
Papa
| | Posted on Sunday, February 4, 2001 - 1:16 am: | |
why does anyone in Maplewood think that the tc in maplewood has anything to do with the tc in millburn . Thay are not the same at all ..... Millburn has a brain. Maplewood tc, has made up there mind already that they want to go ahead with this major mistake and does not want to listin to anyone ..... |
Bobk
| | Posted on Sunday, February 4, 2001 - 2:34 am: | |
Nakaille:
No one is arguing that there are not inequities in the current assessments. If the revaluation had been done two years, or ten years ago, there would be hardly a ripple.
In the last two years housing prices in the Jefferson area have almost doubled which no one expects to last. Housing prices in the center of town have also increased dramatically.
Assessing on this basis is not fair either.
If taxes on the hill had gone up on average 15% or 20% there would not be a problem, which still would have resulted in reductions in other areas of town.
"Fairshare" is an interesting concept. I bet you use as many or more municipal and school services than I do. While I am not a 'flat taxer" by any means, if you want the services, you have to pay a "fairshare" as well.
This brings up the insanity of funding local government, especially schools, via a property tax.
One of the byproducts of the reval is that municipal and school budgets are going to come under heavy pressure. The TC has already eliminated the Police Director position and more cuts will be sure to come. The same with the schools. The Alternative HS is going to be history, the middle school instrumental program likewise. |
Townie
| | Posted on Sunday, February 4, 2001 - 8:34 am: | |
Aruba,
If we follow the procedure you're suggesting, your taxes will still go up dramatically. Let's say everyone in Maplewood who now knows they are overpaying files an appeal and gets justice done. Our taxes will automatically go up. What they used to be overpaying will be shifted to you and me. Furthermore, if my house is really worth $400,000 (making things up here, Aruba) and yours is worth $250,000, how is it fair that the town levies the same high mil rate on both you and me to make up for the lost taxes from the appeals? Also, who pays for processing all those appeals (some 25 percent of the town)? You and me. And then we pay to do it all over again next year?
Bobk: I'm not sure what constitutes the Jefferson area, but houses in my neighborhood sold mainly through bidding wars in the last years, and over the past five years, some have close to doubled. Even in a market downturn I don't think they'll lose so much value it would make a great difference in people's future tax bills to warrant waiting. For instance, my 6-bedroom house was assessed for under $100,000 before the reval. Those prices are never coming back, right? I paid more than 3 times that in the 90s, so even if my next tax bill were based only on my purchase price, I'd still be getting a considerable tax boost from the 1981 price. Furthermore, the Midtown Direct has since undeniably added to the value of my location (I live walk-to-train). The housing market would have to be headed for a nosedive (not a softening) for me to think waiting a year would mean anything more than about a $25 month difference in my life. (I can deduct the property taxes from my income tax.)
Also, I'm not sure I understand you, Bobk. "Fairshare" may be an interesting concept, but it seems to me anything other than a progressive tax is really brutal. A "fair share" can also become suddenly unaffordable for an individual. Also, I don't know how we would go about determining, apart from the schools, who is using more services than whom. I understand that the street where the last Maplewood murder occurred are receiving many added police patrols. Do we all bill them for that? Anyway, as you know, it's not the law.
But does anyone know: Is the reason that some homeowners in Maplewood have been overpaying for years wan because of the town previously having a "fairshare" or "user-based" concept of taxation in the past? |
Bobk
| | Posted on Sunday, February 4, 2001 - 9:20 am: | |
Townie:
Taxes and value are linked. If you are going to be paying an additional $6,000 or so a year you can knock $50,000 or $60,000 off the price you can expect to get if you sell your home. Yes, I know this can't be factored into the assessments, this will only come up next year when the appeals really start to fly.
I stated earlier I am not a "flat taxer" nor am I a fan of the 1981 reval which, pardon the expression, screwed everyone but those who live on the hill as you call it.
There are, I am sure, about ten ways to handle a reassessment that the courts will find fair and equitable. I am afraid Maplewood has taken the most extreme of these methods. Posts on this board and the various speakers at the TC meetings have continually brought this up. A friend, to pass on a new one, was assessed for a finished basement because there were old asphalt tiles on the floor!!. No finished walls or ceilings, just tiles. I think Certified had their orders!
As far as "Jefferson" goes, that is the traditional name for the "westside", a term I refuse to use except in jest.
Midtown direct is a minor factor in the run up. The service was in effect for a couple of years before prices were run up. I think it is partially a figment of the real estate industries marketing efforts. Also, prices in areas with out MidTown Direct have been run up as well. |
Townie
| | Posted on Sunday, February 4, 2001 - 10:23 am: | |
Bobk:
Thanks for your response.
I know that taxes affect what a buyer will pay. I factored it into my thinking, especially since before buying in Maplewood, I looked in South Orange, where taxes are much higher. In fact, I looked all over the metropolitan NY area, and I think Maplewood, even with the new assessments and taxes, will remain competitive with other town and neighborhoods. The assessment I have from Certified I think will hold up with both the tax increase and a real estate softening. Which is a long way of saying: I don't expect to be filing an appeal next year, and I'm neither rich nor lazy. (Well, not rich.)
I think the Midtown Direct was more than a minor factor in Maplewood's runnup. The publicity about this town (equidistant from the center of Manhattan as Park Slope in Brooklyn) brought a huge influx of house shoppers, who helped drive up house prices -- among other things. I think short of replacing South Mountain Reservation with the Atlantic Ocean and giving us all costal property, the Midtown Direct is the greatest single "location" improving real estate asset we could have gotten.
Just curious: How much does a finished basement add to the overall assessment of a house? I don't have one. |
Bobk
| | Posted on Sunday, February 4, 2001 - 1:18 pm: | |
I don't have a finished basement so I don't know either. You might check the Mayor's posting in the thread on reviewing property cards. I think there is a factor there.
I hate to say it, but Maplewood is about 16 miles from the WTC by either road or train. As a former Brooklyn guy I know Park Slope is a lot closer, although we lived in Brooklyn Heights.
It depends where you are looking as far as taxes go. From Milburn on out along the railroad taxes are a lot lower, although I am not sure I want to live there. No sidewalks, no real world.
As a downtown commuter I find Midtown Direct a pain. Basically, it has cut rush hour service to and from Hoboken in half. Although I will give you that being 30 minutes from Penn Station is nice. I did the midtown commute for a year or two before midtown direct and it wasn't a lot of fun. But still I feel it is as much hype as reality. |
|