| Author |
Message |
    
John
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 4:01 pm: |     |
P Man- I don't care if the students were Martian American - They are students, no other definition is necessary (unless we are looking for someone).
And please reconsider where your child will go to high school. Don't give up or give in, help out and make the schools better. |
P_Man
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 5:07 pm: | |
John - you are right it is irrelevant what type of students they were. My point was that the racial issue, while getting better, is still a long way from being "comfortable." Believe me I moved to Maplewood from a lilly white suburb not too far to the west so that my youngest son, now 2+ years, would grow up being color blind. Its just hard to constantly sheild them from the societal biases so prevelant in the news today.
I'm sure my mood will change over time. Its just that where I used to live in Queens we saw this type of activity ruin the nearby HS. Our neighborhood was plagued by violent fights and constant break-ins/robberies. Asian and the few white students that remained were constantly picked on for being good students, it was tough. For the safety of my eldest son we finally enrolled him in private school. I don't ever, nor would I ever want to put my youngest in that position. I admit I am guilty of apathy, but when it comes to the saftey and education of my children I will do what I think is in their best interest. |
John
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 5:43 pm: | |
P Man - I would only expect you to do what is best for your children. I will do the same for mine. I hope and believe our goals are the same. And don't shield yours or anyone else's from today's society. But, pointing out any group is a shield in itself.
Lets not ignore that there are problems but at the same time lets try to rectify them instead of running away from them. Or pointing them out just for the sake of causing controversy. Lets stop comparing to other schools, for I'm sure the same problems exist everywhere. Lets not accept delinquent behavior of any kind, from anyone, even if it is just as bad in the next town or the best towns.
YOU HAVE A RIGHT to use our public schools and you have a right to feel safe using them. I truly hope you will. All I'm saying is every case needs to be dealt with. If we don't point out that this was any particular kind (describe as you like) of student and instead focus on the fact that it was A STUDENT (or students), we can all get behind the same issue. If my son/daughter were the offender I would want to know. If my son/daughter were the victim or in fear of being a victim I would want to know. The offender is the other PERSON not the (description) person. The offender has to face consequences no matter what group you classify them in or, what percentage of offenses are committed by what group. Do all problems with students at CHS for example involve STUDENTS? If 100% of the group is STUDENTS that is all we need to know. Now lets discipline those involved. |
Eb1154
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 8:27 pm: | |
Bottom line is that the these "students" need to be disciplined by the Police Department, BOE, and their parents. I don't mean a slap on the hand I mean severe discipline. I think the big problem is that the BOE and PD have their hands tied. Everyone wants these students to be disciplined until it's their child being disciplined. Do you remember the parent who was outraged that her children were given indoor suspension? We as the residents of Maplewood (parent or not) need to tell the parents of the students who are misbehaving to take some action or we will!!!!
P.S. My children will not be going to CHS either. And because I can't afford a private school for one child let alone three I will be forced to move out of Maplewood. |
Mem
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 9:06 pm: | |
Unfortunately, and obviously, the "students" are not getting the discipline from their homes. So, should our over burdened taxes try to provide the solution for this complicated situation with regard to town services? Yikes. Bacata - you are in social services - do you have any ideas? With that said, at this time no one who wants a safe environment should be criticized for either moving or sending their kids to private schools. |
Alidah
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 9:28 pm: | |
A friend of mine has told me that there is a bullying group of middle schoolers that routinely tease and threaten kids on their way to and from school (I think it is on Courter Ave, but I'm not sure). Kids going to school walk on a different road to get away from them.
She called the police and they said they couldn't do anything because they are too busy concentrating on the high schoolers!
So much for prevention.
I think that some kids' parents teach them that they have to learn how to defend themselves and to fight like a man and never run away. Beat or be beaten. What can the police, BOE, or principal do about that? That's not a rhetorical question. |
Harold
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 9:57 pm: | |
And you wonder why my kids are in private school?
Do you guys realize you're scaring away prospective house buyers? |
Paulrevere
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 10:06 pm: | |
I heard about the "middle school bullies" from my friends last year. My friend's child was verbally abused (cursed at) and shoved in the bushes more than once. She's only five, and was just playing in her yard. |
Manley
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 10:30 pm: | |
The rule is already in the CHS student handbook.Fighting will not be tolerated at school,to and from school,or at any school function or school sponsored activity.This needs to be added.Students who fight or threaten to fight will be suspended and suffer appropriate legal consequences. Students that promote, instigate, or encourage fighting will also be held responsible.It is my experience that most kids do not want to fight, their friends instigate.That's why they should be held accountable.
With vandalism and damage to citizens property,the school should offer a reward for information.This reward will be paid by the offender. |
P_Man
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 8:23 am: | |
John - I also would want to know if it were my children causing the disturbance, but that is what separates you and I from the parents of these people. Most are probably too busy to worry or are unfortunately the type who think that theirs can do no wrong.
As for comparisons, they are inevitable, a fact of life and to ignore them is to do so at your own peril. Our children will face them every day of their adult lives from which school they go to to which career they choose. The town I lived in, Chatham, most certainly didn't have the same problems that CHS has. In fact I think the most severe problem there was whether the kids should drive the BMW or Lexus to school. I lived less than 300 yds away from that HS and never once heard or saw anything that has scared me like the events of last Friday. I cannot ignore that.
I don't know what the right answer is. I agree with you that the problem needs to be addressed regardless of what type of "students" these are. But I also feel that this type of discipline starts in the home, which is why I believe that these kids, at this age, will NOT receive the parenting/discipline they need. |
John
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 9:44 am: | |
Eb1154- I think we need to address the problem of parents who do not want to take responsibility or admit that their child did something wrong. Maybe we need to say "OK you need to come to the indoor detention as well and speak to your child during that time. Come up with a solution and your child can return to school. Otherwise, the suspension is indefinite." So maybe you start with a warning, then a detention for the child and on a third offense it is a parent supervised detention. What? The parents don't have the time? Make it because the rest of us don't want to put up with the child's behavior any more. As I said to P Man, you have a right to use the public schools. Please don't give up yet.
Mem- You are right. No one should be criticized for wanting a safe environment for their kids. Lets try to make the M/SO schools safe for everyone. If we can't sending our children elsewhere is everyone's prerogative. But we all have a right to our public schools and we should be able to discipline those who try to take that right away from us.
Alidah- Educate those parents by making them pay the consequence of parental supervised detention before their children can return to school.
Harold- ?????
Manley- Good point.
P Man- We are on the same page. Please don't give up· ·yet. |
Nakaille
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 10:43 am: | |
John, excellent suggestions, all.
Mem and others: from a "social service" perspective I have to say that the most effective method of dealing with this type of behavior is logical consequences. If you beat someone up you get arrested for assault (and battery?) If you use a brick or any other instrument you face weapons charges. If you threaten to beat someone up or to kill them you get charged with making terroristic threats. These are serious crimes with serious consequences. My half brother (at age 19) spent a year and a half in jail for these two crimes. Believe me, he learned to control his temper. No pleading or threats or anything from his family had helped until he had real-life consequences.
I don't know what the courts might choose to do with juveniles under these circumstances but I do think that a few weeks or months at the Essex County Juvenile Detention Center would certainly be a wake-up call for kids and parents alike. That is a serious lock-up.
Violence does not go away if we just pretend it was child's play. When we do that, we give tacit approval and the offender simply finds other targets. We all need to learn to live within the law. If parents have not taught their children that then kids and parents alike must face the consequences. I don't mean to sound simplistic but if we don't enforce the rules, why bother to have them?
BTW, my point of view is pretty typical of most social workers I know. So much for the perception that we are "soft on crime", huh? Attorneys selecting juries should take note. We see so much of the effects of unchecked violence in the lives of our clients.
Bacata |
Mem
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 11:05 am: | |
Bacata,
Thanks for this perspective. |
Mlj
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 11:26 am: | |
In a perfect world, proper parental guidance would be present in all homes, and would result in proper behavior. Unfortunately ...
I would like to see the matter of violence by students strongly addressed by the schools by holding accountable the students and their parents, with enforcement of disciplinary action. Also encouraging impressionable kids at risk to speak to counselors at the schools. Children and teens who passively "follow the leader" who acts like a jackass, is nothing new. It would be great if some of our talented, successful people from the community could speak at the schools in an attempt to encourage/inspire/reach the students. I would also like to see more police presence. |
P_Man
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 11:45 am: | |
To all: The punishment should be severe for what was done, the problem is (as I understand it) all of those responsible calmly walked away as if they had done nothing wrong long before the police arrived. They left that boy in the middle of the street after tearing at his clothes etc. Just imagine if that was your son or daughter lying in the street in the rain. Would you care about revising the system? Or would you want justice done immediately? I think changes and speeches to inspire are a good thing but of little consequence to the boy and his family.
I wonder if anything is being done to find those who did this? Does anyone know? Also, does anyone know what became of the boy in the street? |
Mem
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 11:55 am: | |
Until solutions are developed and incorporated, more police presence is essential. Imagine if one of the kids gets killed. |
Mtierney
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 11:58 am: | |
If the school handbook indicates that proper behavior is required even "to and from school" maybe some one should observe whether these students continue walking home into Irvington or Newark. I don't intend to open up a harangue here, it's just an observation. How can we fix things at CHS or the middle schools if we don't face reality. We can reach the kids and parents who live in town, whether those domiciles are legal or illegal.
I remember about 20 years ago there was a terrible incident which occurred in the high school. The cops caught the kid who resided in Irvington. That year some 24 kids were found at the school who lived in other communities and were kicked out of school. None of these kids were tuition-paying students.
Before anyone says it: Yes, good kids live outside of Maplewood and South Orange. Yes, our towns do have "bad" kids too. But I think "good" parents teach their kids a very bad lesson when they approve of their kids attending another school district dishonestly. Especially a district beset by major problems and escalating costs. |
Pastorofmuppets
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 12:38 pm: | |
On a different note, did anyone hear about a kid in Livingston that brought bombs to school, I didn't get the full story. |
John
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 3:03 pm: | |
P Man- I was under the impression these students were caught. If they were not, this is where descriptions of the offenders comes into play. Lets put out a description (including aprox. height, weight, age etc.),look for them, and make sure they are held accountable.
Mtierney- If we impose a rule that a parental supervised detention is required, and don't let them back into class until the parents show up and solve the problem, my guess is that troubled students from out of district will also be less of a burden. Once we have addressed the issue of troubled students we can move forward with other out of district students using our schools. |
John
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 3:12 pm: | |
Thanks Bacata and very good input.
I think this has actually turned into a very constructive conversation. |
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