| Author | Message | ||
     Kenney Citizen Username: Kenney Post Number: 232 Registered: 11-2003 |
From a Dem... Sen. Zell Miller Slams Clinton Terrorist Policies John O. Edwards Monday, Aug. 12, 2001 Orlando – In the harshest words yet from a Democratic senator, Georgia's Zell Miller slammed Clinton terrorist policies. In a speech this past Friday to more than 2,000 members of ALEC (the American Legislative Exchange Council, the nation's largest bipartisan group of state legislators) who met in Orlando, Miller described Clinton's response to several terrorist acts as "a wimpy response so totally inadequate I was ashamed." Miller's comments drew thunderous applause as he detailed a litany of terrorist acts that Clinton didn't adequately respond to. "I had watched in great disappointment when we did nothing after the terrorists first attacked the World Trade Center in 1993, killing six and injuring more than 1,000 Americans," Miller said. Miller noted that another serious terrorist incident went unresponded to by Clinton. "Then again, when 16 U.S. servicemen were killed in the bombing of the Khobar Towers in 1996 and we still did nothing," he said. But the failure to respond didn't end in 1996, Miller continued. "I watched when U.S. embassies in Tanzania and Nairobi were attacked in 1998, killing 263 persons, and the only response we made was firing a few missiles on an empty terrorist camp," Miller said with dismay. While only describing the Clinton years with contempt, Miller had nothing but praise for President Bush. "Today, I am proud of our president. He said we are at war with terrorism and with states that sponsor and harbor terrorists." Miller also stated that he supports a wider war against terrorism, including action against Saddam. "We know [Saddam] has weapons of mass destruction," Miller said, noting ominously, "It's not if, but when" these weapons will be used against the United States. On other issues, Miller expressed anger with the U.S. Senate and "the petty partisanship on both sides of the aisle." But his fire seemed to be aimed at members of his own party as he touted his record of bucking his leadership. The maverick Miller voted for President Bush's sweeping tax cut. He also broke with his party to support John Ashcroft's nomination as attorney general. Later he cast the crucial vote for Ted Olson, confirming Bush's nomination of him as solicitor general. "I cannot believe that one party has all the right answers and the other party doesn't have a single right answer," Miller said to loud applause. But I guess since Miller is not a Left wing wacko, his opinion means little.... The only limit to our realization of tomorrow will be our doubts of today..FDR.. Liberty, when it begins to take root, is a plant of rapid growth...G.W. Everyone wants a voice in human freedom. There's a fire burning inside of all us...L.W. Dave Ross is the coolest!!(being banned sucks) | ||
| 1-2many Citizen Username: Wbg69 Post Number: 796 Registered: 6-2002 |
Miller is not a Left wing wacko, to be sure, he is well-known to be a Right wing wacko who, for some inexplicable reason, travels under the title "Democrat." please, everyone knows (I sure do, I used to live there) that, since the passage of Civil Rights, the South is a haven for Republicanism. even the Dems there are Republican.  but truly, I don't know that I believe this post. why, on 8/12/01 would Bush declare we are at war on terror? where is the article from? | ||
| Kenney Citizen Username: Kenney Post Number: 233 Registered: 11-2003 |
Brief Biography of Georgia Governor Zell Miller According to The Almanac of American Politics, "Few [U.S. state] governors have played as pivotal a role in national politics or have sounded as loud a clarion call of regional leadership as Zell Miller of Georgia." Zell Miller is a product of the Appalachian Mountains. Born in the small town of Young Harris, Governor Miller has been a businessman, teacher, marine sergeant, and author of four books. Governor Miller has held positions as a professor at four colleges and universities. His public career includes service at virtually every level of government. Before being elected as Governor of Georgia in 1990, he served as mayor, as a member of the Georgia Senate, and as Lieutenant Governor. Since taking office in 1991, Miller's love of teaching and commitment to education have resulted in one of the most ambitious agendas to improve public education in this century. Governor Miller's HOPE Scholarship Program has been called the most far-reaching in the nation by The Los Angeles Times. His pre-kindergarten program is the only one in the nation available to all four-year-olds. Recently, some news pundits have called Governor Miller "America's education governor," and until recently stating that he would serve out his term as Georgia's chief executive, Miller was rumored to be President Clinton's choice as U.S. Secretary of Education if Clinton is reelected to a second term. While raising state spending on education to new highs, Governor Miller at the same time as cut taxes more than any other chief executive in the state's history. Georgia is one of the leading states in job creation and during his nearly six years in office, new jobs have been created at the rate of more than 2,500 a week. Currently chairman of the Education Commission of the States, Governor Miller has also chaired the Southern Governors' Association, the Appalachian Regional Commission, and the Council of State Governments. In addition, he keynoted the 1992 Democratic National Convention in New York and served as chairman of the platform drafting committee for the 1996 Democratic Convention in Chicago. Governor Miller is married to the former Shirley Carver. They have two sons, four grandchildren, and one great-greatchild. 1-2many, known for this dandy comment, the majority of Americans believe OBL is guilty? how can you know that? because that's the picture the obedient media paint? quite often, what the public thinks is very different from the party line spread quite ably by the media. thinks Miller is a wacko...hmm, very interesting.... The only limit to our realization of tomorrow will be our doubts of today..FDR.. Liberty, when it begins to take root, is a plant of rapid growth...G.W. Everyone wants a voice in human freedom. There's a fire burning inside of all us...L.W. Dave Ross is the coolest!!(being banned sucks) | ||
| Nohero Citizen Username: Nohero Post Number: 2617 Registered: 10-1999  |
The speech was given in August of 2002, not 2001. The article starts: "In a speech this past Friday to more than 2,000 members of ALEC (the American Legislative Exchange Council, the nation's largest bipartisan group of state legislators) who met in Orlando ..." According to ALEC, Sen. Miller addressed their 2002 convention in Orlando (link). Newsmax published the article cited by Kenney, and Newsmax incorrectly identifies it as being from August of 2001. | ||
| Kenney Citizen Username: Kenney Post Number: 234 Registered: 11-2003 |
more on that Wacko Miller. http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/091000/opi_0910000006.shtml The only limit to our realization of tomorrow will be our doubts of today..FDR.. Liberty, when it begins to take root, is a plant of rapid growth...G.W. Everyone wants a voice in human freedom. There's a fire burning inside of all us...L.W. Dave Ross is the coolest!!(being banned sucks) | ||
| 1-2many Citizen Username: Wbg69 Post Number: 797 Registered: 6-2002 |
Kenney: there is ample history to show Miller's many right-wing actions and omissions. is he pure evil? of course not. so he has done some good in the world. and he has done what some call "liberal" activities as well - as doubtless many Repubs have. to debate Miller is getting off-topic, though, unless we want to have a "Zell Miller: is he or isn't he?" thread. then we can go crazy. who knows, maybe both of us will change our minds. I reserve my right to do so, in fact. but the fact that he expresses, in his 2002 speech, nothing but contempt for Clinton and nothing but praise for Bush, is suspicious. this is true for anyone, and even more so for someone who calls himself a compatriot of Clinton's. to the substance of Miller's attacks themselves, when he says the US did "nothing" in response to the 4 terrorist acts he describes: Miller's attack is just plain wrong, which reflects either incompetence or just outright dishonesty. the US did a LOT - including Clinton, the FBI, and Congress. the US adhered to a rule of law - investigating, finding suspects, and trying and convicting them. beyond that, the US also undertook the FIRST EVER IN US HISTORY, pro-active terror strike in history, launching a number of missile strikes against al Qaeda - just one part of a then-ever-increasing effort against bin Laden and al Qaeda during Clinton's administration. in addition, on the human side, Clinton requested, Congress approved and the US delivered millions in aid to the countries where the attacks occurred. he seems to have covered all the reasonable responsive bases, to me. for Zell Miller to call these actions (only briefly summarized here) "nothing", and to accuse Clinton of doing "nothing" is extremely dishonest. | ||
| Kenney Citizen Username: Kenney Post Number: 236 Registered: 11-2003 |
When in doubt, keep digging. The only limit to our realization of tomorrow will be our doubts of today..FDR.. Liberty, when it begins to take root, is a plant of rapid growth...G.W. Everyone wants a voice in human freedom. There's a fire burning inside of all us...L.W. Dave Ross is the coolest!!(being banned sucks) | ||
| 1-2many Citizen Username: Wbg69 Post Number: 798 Registered: 6-2002 |
further, your bio of Miller is notably dated ("Miller was rumored to be President Clinton's choice as U.S. Secretary of Education if Clinton is reelected to a second term"). I wonder what the current descriptions are? I'll look them up. notwithstanding his current leanings, I of course appreciate his contributions to education. but as an aside from someone who actually lived there during this period: they were generated by many people, not just Zell. and some of the most important of those contributions - education funding from the lottery - were actually just political concessions, to justify and enable having the lottery in (do I need to say it? Bible-thumping, and anti-Gambling) Georgia. in the 80's and early 90's, when I was living there, Zell was casually known as "Zig Zag Zell" -so that should give you some clue as to how his positions were perceived. | ||
| 1-2many Citizen Username: Wbg69 Post Number: 799 Registered: 6-2002 |
oh, you mean, dig to uncover the information that reveals the OUTRIGHT LIE? yeah, I do do that. what a weakness. but come on Kenney. you're smarter than that. what's the substantive response to having Zell's statements revealed as lies? | ||
| Montagnard Citizen Username: Montagnard Post Number: 318 Registered: 6-2003 |
It's disheartening to see otherwise sensible people calling for punishment without a trial, even for people like Osama bin Laden. I ask that anyone who finds themselves saying this take a few minutes to reflect on why they said it, and ask if this is the best their country can do. | ||
| lseltzer Citizen Username: Lseltzer Post Number: 2019 Registered: 5-2001 |
Montagnard - we're at war with his organization. Is that really so hard to understand? Would it be wrong to bomb the cave we knew he was in? | ||
| Dr. Winston O'Boogie Citizen Username: Casey Post Number: 414 Registered: 8-2003  |
Here are a couple of blasts from the past (c. 1998) that may help explain why some of us who have been against the invasion of Iraq aren't swayed by the words of Bill Clinton. Some of you may not think this is possible but there are people out there who didn't believe Bill Clinton any more than we believe George Bush.   | ||
| Dave Ross Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 6022 Registered: 4-1998  |
If he's captured, a trial would be nice. If he's killed by an enormous bomb, that would be nice, too. | ||
| bobk Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 4164 Registered: 5-2001 |
In modern warfare it is acceptable to attack what the military calls "leadership targets". This always wasn't the case. During the Revolutionary War the Brits thought the Americans to be the equivalent of modern day terrorists because they used aimed fire at officers, which Old Chap simply wasn't sporting.  Even during WWII there was a lot of discussion before attacking and killing Admiral Yamamoto. Some of the discussion was because of fear of revealing that we were reading Japanese Navy codes, but some of it was based on assasinating an enemy leader. | ||
| tjohn Citizen Username: Tjohn Post Number: 2017 Registered: 12-2001  |
Yamamoto was a gentleman which is somewhat more that can be said of Hussein or Bin Laden. We shouldn't target Bin Laden. We should target his Command and Control structure. If he happens to be there - too bad. Similarly, as it is a violation, apparently, of the Geneva Convention to use anti-aircraft weapons on personnel, when shooting at enemy soldiers with an AA gun such as a .50 caliber machine guns, it is important to aim only for their equipment such as their uniforms. If the bullet manages to penetrate their uniform and causes some injury, that is legal. | ||
| 1-2many Citizen Username: Wbg69 Post Number: 800 Registered: 6-2002 |
you know, I feel kind of silly now, having gone to the time and trouble to do my OWN research to disprove Zell's lies - when in fact, others have done this before, so much so, that those same allegations are already dispelled on snopes.com. see http://www.snopes.com/rumors/clinton.htm a particular postscript: the August 1998 Washington Post article cited states Clinton tripled the terror budget, to $6.7 billion. of course, Clinton's final budget proposal requested $9 billion. I guess that's, what, quadrupling it? so he certainly didn't do nothing. he did one hell of a lot. AND he did it while adhering to the Rule of Law!!! which brings us full circle - back to Dean, who is advocating the same thing. a sane and reasonable proposal which I hope is followed by whoever is in charge. from what I read, Dean also significantly contributing to gaining near-universal healthcare for children in Vermont during his time as governor. particularly important experience when the issue of lack of health care faces millions of Americans, including, sadly, millions of working Americans. | ||
| bobk Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 4167 Registered: 5-2001 |
When ever the Bush folks start blaiming Clinton for 911 I wonder what the Republican partisan reaction would have been if Big Bill had ordered an invasion of Afghanistan after the Cole attack. How many of you think that Delay, Newt, etal would have lined up saluted the flag and in the interests of national security backed the Administation? And we had the capability to do it. The plan the Bush Administration used to go into Afghanistan was on the shelf and left over from the Clinton years. With exception of not inserting the 10th Mountain Division on the border with Pakistan during the attacks on Tora Bora, etal it was a masterpiece. For the record I have a soft spot for the 10th Mountain. A good friend of mines son is a Captain in that division who just returned from his second eight month tour in Afghanistan, just in time for the birth of his daughter. He will be in an advanced infantry school for the next few months and is debating staying in or leaving the service since he fully expects to be deployed at least eight months a year for the indefinite future. | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 609 Registered: 8-2003 |
Is anyone who's in the "Anyone But Bush" crowd the least bit concerned about Dean's vulnerability to the very charges he tries to levy against Bush? Namely associations with Enron, keeping governors records secret, and the latest -- a secret VT Energy Task Force? Or do you just overlook things that may get in the way of victory? This stuff that fellow Democrat contenders are digging up is amazing. I'm waiting for something along the lines of what Gore did to Dukakis -- dig up the information on Willie Horton and use it against him. But with Gore backing Dean, maybe that won't happen. I also note a panic-stricken editorial today in the NY Daily News about the impending Dean nomination. Anyone echo that sentiment on the Left? | ||
| notehead Citizen Username: Notehead Post Number: 814 Registered: 5-2001  |
Cjc - I am not concerned about Dean's vulnerability (because I don't particularly like him), and I am glad that the issue was brought to light. It appears that Dean's secrecy was not nearly as egregious as Cheney's -- I mean, the names of the people in Dean's task force were officially revealed, after all. There is some validity to the concept that advisors are more likely to be totally candid if their advice is secret... but we're talking about government. Government is supposed to represent us, and should be far more transparent than it is. | ||
| Dr. Winston O'Boogie Citizen Username: Casey Post Number: 418 Registered: 8-2003 |
If someone has evidence that the VT energy task force was convened to pay back Dean's cronies and contributors, then it would be a fair comparison to Cheney's task force. |
