| Author |
Message |
    
Jur050
| | Posted on Monday, March 5, 2001 - 10:10 pm: |     |
Incidences like the one in the San Diego suburb of Santee today, scare the hell out of me. Are there similarities among the suspects that perpetrate these acts? How can those potential killers be profiled and discovered before they strike?
Or can't educators, administrators, police, and others, utilize profiling as an effective means of focusing their energies any longer. Targeting your market can be a helpful tool when used properly.
It seems to have a bad reputation when applied to race, but what else is new. The word race, as in "Racial Profiling," prevents sometimes effective use of stereo typing. However, using such a technique in an effort to identify potential killers in our schools might help prevent needless deaths and injuries. |
Shakespeare
| | Posted on Monday, March 5, 2001 - 10:25 pm: | |
Yes, we can easily profile them. Gather in a room all students who are not on the varsity football team. Then determine which read science fiction or fantasy literature. From that subgroup, target those adept at computer programming. In that segment, look at their style of dress. Pull from that group those with unkepmt hair. Take from that group those who don't speak very much, kind of keep to themselves. In that group, there will be one who is the perfect fit. Take that student and stone him in front of the entire community. This will calm fears and provide satisfactory results that are both statistically measureable and psychologically calming to those living in fear. O brave new world.... |
Patty
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 1:20 am: | |
Some good points, Shakespeare, about how not to treat kids; most 'profiling' suggestions out there would only further marginalize 'different' kids and would pass by the 'he just wasn't the type' killers.
Let's hear more about humanizing the battlefield called high school. Many make it through in spite of, not because of, the atmosphere. The olden-days "socialization" benefit is obsolete; how many of us could walk through today's gauntlet with confidence and self-possession? I'm sure there are terrific ideas and people around who could detox the situation throughout our nation. (Not to downplay the good things about our own Columbia and local community, where the need to maintain "steam vents" is acknowledged and encouraged.) Perhaps more "uptight" homogenous places explode with big bangs such as Columbine and San Diego. Just a thought. |
Nilmiester
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 9:27 am: | |
Profiling for serial killers seems to be pretty on target thanks to research done on Mr. Bundy. I find that most of these children involved in shootings are male, white, middle class homes etc.. The San Diego child actually talked about it over the weekend. I think it goes a bit deeper than who is or isn't on the varsity team.... |
Blinger
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 9:41 am: | |
I'm with Jur050... who wouldn't want to be stereotyped, once they knew it was being done for the greater public good. You'd have to be a sociopath (and probably would have a very, very bad profile).
Let's start out by profiling Jur050, then working up a mathematical index by which we can measure how different a particular subject is from Jur050's profile. We can define arbitrary categorizations based on the index values.
This will be a useful tool not only for identifying killers, but also for identifying the future world leaders and sanitation engineers. Though my high school days are long past, nonetheless I still feel a longing to understand just how I fit in, and look forward to submitting to whatever testing (conducted by appropriate authorities or their duly authorized agents of course) is deemed necessary.
"Targeting your market." That's the idea! Here's an economical way to start -- look to the large corporations of our great land. They have the money and already have a great deal of information about all of us that they've already shown they are willing to share for the greater public good (free profiling with every order! Think -- it could be done on the INTERNET!).
I hear the spending habits of many of today's youth are highly questionable -- spending on entertainment and recreational activities before the basic necessities of life, for instance. It would be very interesting to see data of this sort displayed on some sort of chart or graph, and then read people's opinions about them.
Somebody's probably going to say, "Those who would trade liberty for security deserve neither." But I say, "Those who would trade liberty for security deserve BOTH! Plus a free gift just for trying." |
Manley
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 10:23 am: | |
The Secret Service Report on school violence stated:
School shooters don't snap. They plan.And somebody else usually knows before the attack.The Secret Service advises schools to get troubled kids help before they plot their attack and to find ways to break down barriers that inhibit students from telling an adult about a planned attack.
This report was right on the money, someone did not follow through.The report also includes tips to identify potential school shooters. |
Blinger
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 10:49 am: | |
Let's take the Bush approach, schools which have shootings should lose federal funding.
Also it should be mandatory that somebody get fired from a school's administration if there is a shooting at the school.
Any administrators actually shot should also be reprimanded for not knowing the student was going to shoot them and acting sooner.
Students who get shot should get mandatory detention for not speaking up before getting shot. |
Melidere
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 10:59 am: | |
The mass media (round the clock) attention given to these shootings has added this fantasy to the arsenal of fantasies of every teen in america.
If we investigated every single kid who made utterances about shooting up the school over the last six months we could pretty much wipe out the federal surplus in labor costs.
i bet we could also establish that every kid that has touched off violence in schools has eaten in the 24 hours before the shooting. We could investigate all children who eat.
For every kid that follows through, thousands of people have ignored hundreds of thousands of kids who didn't.
I just hate laying all this blame and guilt at the hands who misunderstood the one needle in the haystack that wasn't kidding. |
Nilmiester
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 11:12 am: | |
So I guess we should do nothing... as usual. |
Nohero
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 11:30 am: | |
Nil, the point by Melidere was not "do nothing", but was "know what it is that you are doing". It's the old logic problem, as in "all beagles are dogs, but not all dogs are beagles". Sure, you can find that a high percentage of kids who shot their classmates are undersized, skinny loners who are picked on. Does that mean that there is a high probability that any undersized, skinny loner who gets picked on will start shooting? No, it does not.
If we want to "do something", let's do something about the way all students treat their classmates. Then, maybe that one-in-a-million undersized, skinny loner who would have started shooting at school, might not. |
Mem
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 11:40 am: | |
Nil,
I can guarantee a change in some poster's attitudes if one of their kids got shot. There's truth in the saying, "A conservative is a liberal who's been mugged." Proactivity should be a number one priority. |
Shakespeare
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 11:44 am: | |
How about better gun control? |
Face
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 11:45 am: | |
So, I take it that since stereotyping, profiling, is no longer politically correct, it can no longer be used to assist effective identification of those that need help. God forbid you make judgements about people based on their appearance or behavior. All sales and marketing campaigns should no longer be able to target potential customers either!
What do they do at Columbia, do they actively attempt to identify troubled kids? If so how? |
Manley
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 12:01 pm: | |
Columbia High School has been extremely active about school security.I had the privilege to sit in on one of their sessions over the summer.
They are taking security very seriously.Three cheers for the Principal and the Deans. |
Evm
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 12:06 pm: | |
If Columbia has such great security why is it that I walked into the school to get my transcripts, and I saw no one nor did anyone question why I was there. As a graduate of this school, I even walked all around to check it out without a question from anyone. |
Shakespeare
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 12:19 pm: | |
Face, it's all about politics. And it should be.
When trying to define a "type" you assume that identities are fixed essences rather than mutative and flowing constructions. Contemporary thought goes against this grain; in particular, Michel Foucault's _Discipline and Punish_ examines similarities between schools and prisons, among other things. To oversimplify, if you create a control (power) structure you can inadvertantly create that which you are trying to prevent because resistance is implicit in any power relationship. Politics is the only game I know where power can be exerted or resisted against.
There are necessary power relationships, but when they go too far, trouble is around the corner. Political trouble. |
Nakaille
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 12:35 pm: | |
Mem, I've been mugged (you may have read an earlier post of mine concerning that). My house has been broken into. I own property. I'm still left of liberal.
Being conservative or liberal has little to do with adverse life experiences, as far as I can tell. It may have more to do with being an optimist or pessimist or.... what? I don't know. But to blame it on a specific unfortunate incident seems inadequate to me. I think it has a lot more to do with a particular view of human nature which in terms reveals a lot about how we think of ourselves. My life experiences, although at times truly horrific, have only strengthened my faith in myself and others. Crazy, huh?
I vote for better gun control. I'd much rather see a kid acting out with his/her words or his/her fists than with a gun. I grew up with guns in the house, under lock and key. In extreme moments I had fantasies of killing myself or someone else. I could have easily broken into the cabinet. I was fortunate enough to have caring adults to talk to, the outlet of writing poetry and a journal for those things that couldn't be said aloud and the ability to fit in enough socially not to be a complete loner. I was probably a kid Face or Nil might have profiled, certainly if they had read my writings. (But then again, since I was a white female, maybe you would have missed me.)
And now I'm a productive, taxpaying member of society, working with troubled adults and kids. Like most kids who would be profiled.
The answer is not profiling. A part of the answer is, as Patty suggested, in humanizing the school environment (and the work environment - think of how many workplace shootings there are, too.) I had some very caring teachers and other adults around who helped me formulate the perspective that there was more to life than what my miserable adolescence would suggest. That I would soon leave behind the family and other problems and make a life for myself of my own creation. They were right. I did and now I have a loving relationship of 20 years, a great kid, a home in a great town, and meaningful work to prove them right. But if some adults had not shown me that they cared about me as an individual, had not taken the time to listen, who knows what would have happened? Maybe I would have taken one of those guns and murdered my whole family. And you wouldn't have to put up with my liberal rants. Oh well.
BTW, Face, appearance is one thing. Behavior is another. Try getting to know the people behind the appearance. It's amazing what you can find. All black kids in baggy clothes are not thugs. And all white kids in preppy clothes are not model citizens. (Remember Mr. Skakel?) That's the problem with mass profiling. If a crime has already been committed and you're using an expert to do the profiling, it may well be valid. But profiling in advance is like predicting the weather, only with more damaging results.
Bacata |
Mem
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 12:50 pm: | |
Bacata,
I completely agree with you about gun control. I just got back from Europe, traveling by myself, and the big city environment was much, much less tense than say, NYC. I attribute it to the fact that there was very little chance of encountering someone with a gun. If we had the same gun laws as some other countries, it would profoundly change criminal attitudes from childhood on.
However, I feel profiling is a good thing for these kids, if anything, it will help pinpoint troubled kids who need individual attention and caring.
Congrats on having the strength and good will to build character from your life experiences. Many kids don't, and we need to know who they are so we can help. |
Jur050
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 1:30 pm: | |
Metal detectors in every school! Is that the answer? What about identifying those that are in need of help and then following through with counseling. |
Ejt
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 6, 2001 - 4:06 pm: | |
Maybe we should start with someone at the front door to see why you're there. |
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