| Author |
Message |
    
Cdp
| | Posted on Monday, March 12, 2001 - 4:00 pm: |     |
Hello,
Thanks for all the great discussions!
I was hoping someone could discuss some of their perceptions regarding the Maplewood/SO area vs. Livingston. To reintroduce myself, I'm from Raleigh,NC and am planning on moving to the area in the summer.
I've noticed that housing prices seem to vary dramatically between these areas. However, while I have driven around Maplewood, SO, Short Hills/Milburn, I have NOT been to Livingston yet. Thus, my pricing comparison is based on photos and housing specs.
Is the price difference derived from the midtown direct access, maybe? Or is there a big difference in crime? (the index I've seen says no) Or is it less explicit, such as neighborhood beauty, etc.
I would appreciate any discussion on this!
-cdp |
Wilbur
| | Posted on Monday, March 12, 2001 - 4:12 pm: | |
Livington is substantially different from Maplewood. For one thing, it lacks a comparable town center; it's much more spread-out and sprawling, with no village to speak of. Secondly, most of the houses in Livingston I've seen are way different from those here. Where we have classic Colonial Revivals and Tudors, among others, from the 1910s, '20s and '30s, Livingston tends toward '50s and '60s ranches and split levels. If you're at all attracted to our housing stock, you won't find it in Livingston. Next, there is no direct train from Livingston to Manhattan. I hear of people from Livingston taking a bus to the train station in South Orange, but otherwise, they don't have their own train option, much less the ability to walk to the train like we do. That said, Livingston appears pleasant enough, and I hear the school district is top-notch. For us, however, those ranches and split levels, plus the NYC commuting situation, were too big a turnoff to make the town worth considering. Hope this helps. |
Algebra2
| | Posted on Monday, March 12, 2001 - 4:27 pm: | |
My husband is a Livingston native. When looking to move to the suburbs from NYC, Livingston, for us, wasn't an option. Bad NYC commute and, I don't know how to say it, a lot of keeping up with the Joneses attitude there. The poster above said the rest -- we wanted a town center and a good train commute. |
Lseltzer
| | Posted on Monday, March 12, 2001 - 5:50 pm: | |
Livingston is a kind of spread-out town that doesn't have the Maplewood small-town feel. I doubt that people in Livingston have a sense of their neighborhoods in the way that Maplewood residents do. And even to go from one store to another you have to drive. (OTOH, at least they have some big supermarkets.)
Another Livingston commute option is to drive to the Harrison PATH station. Half car travel, half subway-like PATH. All-in-all, having a local NJT station is a huge advantage for a Manhattan commuter. |
Alidah
| | Posted on Monday, March 12, 2001 - 10:31 pm: | |
Livingston is probably a really good value, though, as is Hanover and Florham Park. |
Twig
| | Posted on Monday, March 12, 2001 - 10:35 pm: | |
A few comparisons, mostly subjective opinion and some that is not, from someone familiar with both towns: Maplewood is a classic old "train town" while Livingston has more of a 1950-60's "development" feel. Maplewood has a quaint downtown village area while Livingston has small strip malls, plazas, and an actual mall. Maplewood's housing stock is primarily "classic" old colonials while Livingston has many split-levels and bi-levels - and quite a few modernistic multimillion-dollar monstrosities (nice alliterative touch, there). Property taxes are comparable but somewhat lower in Livingston due to the presence of more commercial properties. The commute to NYC is decidedly much easier from Maplewood or South Orange. Livingston has less "street crime" than Maplewood - it's crime stats tend to be inflated by incidents from the Livingston Mall (shoplifting, etc). In the NJ Monthly Magazine rankings (if you believe in such things) of high schools in NJ, Livingston HS is ranked 14th in the state while Columbia HS is somewhere around 130. But Columbia offers more AP courses. According to the latest census, Maplewood is 56% white, 3% Asian-American, 31% African-American, and 5% Latino. Livingston is 81% white, 14% Asian-American, 1% African-American, and 1% Latino. Some friends have chosen to live in Livingston because of their belief that it has a stronger Jewish community than Maplewood. The general sense of "community" in the neighborhoods is probably stronger overall in Maplewood but there are some neighborhoods in Livingston that do compare quite favorably. Livingston retains strong neighborhood elementary schools that are the focal and gathering points of each neighborhood. (Livingston has no partner-schools, crosstown busing, or magnet/demonstration schools to balance anything) Livingston's youth sports programs are more comprehensive than Maplewood's but Columbia HS sports teams are generally better. There are snobbish people in both towns (curiously, many of whom seem to live on hills). Folks in Maplewood are much more "tuned in" to issues of diversity and multiculturalism and there is a stronger sense of the arts in Maplewood. Livingston has a better Memorial Day parade but Maplewood's 4th of July celebration is the clear holiday winner (except for the fireworks in recent years..boo! hiss!). The News Record actually may be a better paper than Livingston's West Essex Tribune - hard to fathom that one, huh? (Hey, I said that this was subjective stuff.) Each town has it's good and not-so-good points and you have to decide what is the best fit for you. This is beginning to sound like "celebrity town deathmatch"....tune in next week and we'll do Maplewood vs. Schnectady. |
Ffof
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2001 - 8:52 am: | |
Snob schmob. |
Uqbar
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2001 - 12:09 pm: | |
Is there a Livingston web site??? |
Mwacks
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2001 - 12:59 pm: | |
Just in case our perspective new neighbors from the south are Jewish, I just wanted to reassure them that there is a vibrant Jewish community in the South Orange/Maplewood community. I state that with both towns included, and with South Orange first on purpose... the community is somewhat centered on three large congregations in South Orange (one reform, two conservative). The one Synogogue in Maplewood is a small orthodox shul. Still, we are far from the only family in the neighborhood (not far from where you are looking) not showing Christmas lights in the winter (granted, others may hold other religious beliefs - it is a diverse community). |
Mose
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2001 - 1:23 pm: | |
Actually, there are two orthodox shuls in Maplewood. One is on the corner of Prospect and Parker, the other is in the Hilton neighborhood. |
Cdp
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2001 - 2:12 pm: | |
Thanks, everyone for the responses. And Twig, I appreciate the time you spent to give me such an in-depth report!
By the way, I am not Jewish, but I appreciate the discussion, nonetheless. Plus, as is usually the case, I'm sure that some lurkers find the discussion useful, as well, regardless of the applicability to me.
To introduce myself further, I'm a 28-year-old graduating in June from Duke U. (with a Ph.D.---no, I didn't take 10 years to get a 4 year degree!! :-) ). I am taking a position with a management consulting firm (strategy practice). I will be based in Manhattan, but will travel most of the time. My wife is a CPA, (UNC-CH grad) and will most likely transfer with her current firm and work in the Short Hills Mall area. We don't have any kids (one dog, named Bruce (as in Springsteen)), but enjoy the discussion of schools, nonetheless, as it's important in our future--and for housing values.
Since my wife works very hard, our proximity to the Short Hills mall area (assuming her negotiations go well) is very important to me. My commute will usually be to the Newark airport, with maybe a weekly visit to the NYC office. We like being close to the train for that reason, but in the end, could probably be flexible, since I would expect for her to give me a lift to the station in the mornings. Thus, I don't expect to have to walk/drive very often. Additionally, since my NYC commute is infrequent, +/-10 minutes is not quite the factor that it would normally be. That said...
I think I can understand a little more on what to expect with Livingston. Sounds fine, but with a different sense of community. I think I do prefer what Maplewood/SO has to offer, but I'll be sure to evaluate it on a neighborhood-by-neighborhood basis once I start looking at the specific homes that are available.
Again, I appreciate the discussion. Please feel free to be forthcoming with any other advice for a new arrival. We're certainly grappling with a lot of issues:
Where? (Maplewood, SO, Livingston, Chatham, New Providence, etc...)
How much? ($400k-$500k sure doesn't go as far in Metro NJ, even compared to the inflated hi-tech Raleigh/RTP housing market)
Taxes? (re: reval----have learned more than I want to know about that!! I feel for people who are being fiscally pressured out of their homes!)
And other livability to issues.
Thanks again!
-cdp |
Sac
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2001 - 3:20 pm: | |
cdp - Even with the taxes, I think you will get more for your money in M/SO. That was even more the case a few years ago, but I think it is still true. And I'm talking strictly in terms of the house you get, not all the other intangibles that are so delightful to us living here that I know you are getting a sense of on this board. And, in your price range, you will probably have a good variety of choices here. Based on your location preferences, you can't beat us ... very central for Short Hills, NYC, Newark airport, but you've probably already figured that out from the discussion and from looking at a map. Whatever you decide, good luck with your househunting and move and congratulations on your upcoming graduation! |
Debby
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2001 - 9:08 pm: | |
cdp-
You really must visit both areas and speak to people when you're here to get a feel for just how different the two communities are.I think most people who live in Maplewood/SO wouldn't dream of living in Livingston, and I'm sure the reverse is true as well.
I know people who live in Livingston and just love it - the schools are great, it has a very suburban feel, and everyone looks just like everyone else. I, for one, could never live there. It feels too much like Long Island (if that reference means anything to you). It is quite nouveau riche. And everyone looks like everyone else!
Good luck with your choice. |
Interalia
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2001 - 9:24 pm: | |
Debbie: I grew up on Long Island and now live in Maplewood and that reference means something to me! I find your insulting reference to Long Island surpassed only by either your ignorance or narrow-mindedness. While I chose to live in Maplewood over Livingston, I have many friends who live in that town. Perhaps you should look beyond the very surface you accuse them (and Long Islanders) of living on.
Now, if you want to discuss how competitive the town is; how competitive the high school is...that is something different. |
Jem
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2001 - 9:36 pm: | |
cdp,
I've been thinking a bit about the things that you've told us you're looking for in a community, and it sounds to me as if the items at the top of your list are convenience to transportation and your respective places of work, and an attractive and safe neighborhood. As far as those things go, we've got an embarassment of riches here.
What you haven't said is what sort of community you're looking for. If you've been reading this bulletin board for awhile, I assume you're aware of the racial and economic makeup of our community, and I would guess you're also aware that the community is very attractive and welcoming to inter-racial and gay couples and families. The other communities you've mentioned as equally interesting to you don't have quite the same flavor as Maplewood and South Orange in that regard. A majority of people in our two towns are more apt to lean to the left politically than those in Livingston, Millburn, Chatham, or Madison (although I've heard tell that some folks here are hot to recruit less liberal types).
Thought you might want to add that into your decision-making equation. |
Psychobabbler
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 14, 2001 - 10:31 am: | |
Interalia, I also grew up on Long Island, and don't feel comfortable being lumped in a generalization like the one Debbie made. But in her defense, I'd have to agree with her LI impression; it's one of the reasons I was glad to leave and wouldn't choose to go back. |
Llama
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 14, 2001 - 10:37 am: | |
Cdp; It's "The Mall at Short Hills," not the "Short Hills Mall." We wouldn't want to insult anyone, would we. Maplewood is unique. Good luck with your decision. |
Alidah
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 14, 2001 - 11:12 pm: | |
To Long Islanders--we New Jerseyans (the armpit of the US, remember?) love to be able to turn the tables every once in a while and get our licks in. Our only options are Long Island and Staten Island--and we LOVE you for it (but deep down we know that Long Island is much better than Staten Island). ;) |
Gerardryan
| | Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 12:01 am: | |
As a native of Staten Island, I must tell you that the two are completely different! Long Island isn't even an Island, it's just extra Queens! |
Llama
| | Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 10:27 am: | |
East Maplewood or West? |
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