| Author | Message | ||
     Alidah |
Will the schools use the new census numbers to check against last year's school enrollments to see if there discrepancies in the general population of school age children versus kids who are enrolled? Seems like this would be a good way to get an indication of the situation. Or not. Any thoughts? | ||
| Lseltzer |
I don't think there's any way to do that without using individual census records, and that's very illegal. | ||
| Deadwhitemale |
How can public information be illegal? DWM | ||
| Wendy |
DWM - The specific information about individuals must be kept confidential for about seventy five years. The census is about numbers, that is, population, income, schooling, racial background, etc. as it relates to particular communities and our country as a whole. The census, that is the count, is required by our Constitution every 10 years. I worked for the census this past spring and summer and was required to take an oath that I would never reveal the specific information I learned about someone. Speaking of the Constitution, until we change the first amendment and/or the Supreme Court's interpretation of it, we will not be able to tax churches, synagouges etc. That would be considered too much of an entanglement between church and state and therefore would violate the separation of church and state clause in the first amendment. This goes in some other thread but I can't remember where in the taxes area it goes. | ||
| Ejt |
Why use the census numbers when we have the enrollment information at the BOE? That's legal! | ||
| Alidah |
Isn't there a way to look at the general numbers and get a rough idea? I don't think looking at individual records would be necessary for this exercise. Does the census bureau give each town a breakdown of their population according to age? If there were more kids enrolled in the schools than were counted in the census, you'd have a pretty good idea. If the number was very close you'd have a good idea, too. | ||
| Lseltzer |
If you knew the total number of kids in the towns, the district, and private schools, you should be able to figure this out. But I suspect you couldn't get all those numbers, and even the census has some margin of error. | ||
| Davel |
The Bureau is scheduled to be releasing its 100% data (or the questions asked of every person: household relationship, sex age race, Hispanic Origin, tenure and housing vacancy characteristics) for "places" (such as Maplewood) from May to July. That is, the data will be aggregated and presented for the entire community. They are then scheduled to release this data down to the block level from June through September. Keep in mind that if the cell counts get too small for some blocks, to protect the confidentiality of respondents, they may "swap" in persons from other blocks, but the totals should add up in larger geographic aggregations (such as census tracts). Information from the decennial sample forms that were not asked of all households, such as school enrollment data, are scheduled to be released in March to May of 2002. see: http://www.census.gov/population/www/censusdata/c2kproducts.html | ||
| Nohero |
According to the information out so far, of the 23,868 people in Maplewood, 17175 are 18 and over. If you "do the math", that's 6693 under 18. According to 1990 census information for Maplewood, there were 5065 under 18 in 1990. The 1990 information is broken out further for 1 year olds, 2 year olds, etc., but I have not seen the 2000 information in this detail yet. However, with an increase in the under-18 population, from 5065 in 1990 to 6693 in 2000, that could make things a little tighter in the schools. | ||
| Melidere |
where did you get that, nohero? I'd love to know the same numbers for south orange. It would be interesting to see what percentage of the kids who live here actually attend public schools. the district cites an enrollment of 6300, which would pretty much be every kid in maplewood. | ||
| Wendy |
Melidere, I thought that too at first. But as the poster noted, the breakdown of under 18 has not been released yet for 2000. Therefore, the under 18 includes all children, including all below school age. That (hopefully) is the explanation for the numbers for enrollment closely aligned with the under 18 numbers. | ||
| Nohero |
Some town-by-town information has been released for redistricting purposes. One of the charts shows, in addition to total population, and racial and ethnic breakdown, a count for the "18+" population for each town. That document is online here. South Orange is listed as having a total population of 16,964, and an 18-and-over population of 13,187. That would leave 3777 under 18, which when added to the 6693 in Maplewood would be a total of 10,470 children under 18 within the SO-M school district boundaries. With that, I've reached the effective limit of my analytical capabilities, and leave it to the statistical wizards on this board to see if any conclusions can be drawn from this. | ||
| Nakaille |
In addition to not counting the under 5 crowd when thinking about enrollments versus total population under 18 let's also remember two things: 1) lots of kids are 18 during their senior year. 2) a significant number of 5 year olds do not attend the public school kindergartens since they are only half day. Bacata | ||
| Argon_Smythe |
This just plain isn't the purpose for the census, and using it this way is like driving a nail with a screwdriver. For one thing, the data is from when the census was taken, and enrollment data is from the current school year. You are chasing a moving target you can never catch with this. Folks have graduated, others have enrolled, some have moved out, others have moved in. Compare the census numbers to the corresponding school year? All you can possibly indentify from the that comparison is that, at that time, there may have been some illegal students in the district, but there is not enough evidence to prove that conclusively. So, tell me something I don't already know. I'd file this comparison under "interesting to see, but highly inconclusive." | ||
| Nohero |
I agree, you just can't use the census information to determine whether there are "out-of-district" students enrolled in the schools. However, I think the census information is useful in that it shows that the total school-age population is (in all likelihood) trending up. Oftentimes, the increase in the school population has led some people to ask whether some of these students are from out of the district. The fact that there are, apparently, more school-age children means that an increase in the number of students, in and of itself, should not be taken as a sign that there are illegal students. In the end, a determination of whether there are illegal students can't be made based on the total number of students, or the racial or ethnic breakdown of the school population. It's ultimately a case-by-case determination, and certainly not an easy one. | ||
| Nilmiester |
It is very difficult to identify students attending out of district. My doctor recently told me his friend took the bus up from Newark one day and watched 30+ children get off at Columbia. I don't know if thats true but the seeing who takes the bus from outside the two towns may be a good way to get an idea of whether there is a problem or not. But then again, I don't know what would be about it anyway. | ||
| Alidah |
Ask the Summit BOE how they find out of district students. They don't find it difficult at all. Why is it so impossible for Maplewood-SO? | ||
| Ffof |
PC Mindedness. | ||
| Nakaille |
Name calling is just so helpful and explicative, Ffof! Thanks for adding your insight to the discussion. Bacata | ||
| Ffof |
Your welcome! Always a pleasure! |
