| Author | Message | ||
     bets Supporter Username: Bets Post Number: 22732 Registered: 6-2001  |
Isn't there a chat room for this type of discourse? Y'all should plan ahead! | ||
| sportsnut Citizen Username: Sportsnut Post Number: 2296 Registered: 10-2001  |
From Tim Kaine's response: "Tonight we pray, earnestly and humbly, for that healing, and for the day when service returns again as the better way to a new national politics." "Thank you for listening and God bless the United States of America." He said the word "pray" and uttered that damning phrase "God bless the United States of America." Where's the outrage? How did this Democrat get elected? The President says it and Drewdix accuses him of having no guts, well what about Mr. Kaine? I guess he has no guts either. | ||
| Threeringale Citizen Username: Threeringale Post Number: 11 Registered: 1-2006 |
In a complex and challenging time, the road of isolationism and protectionism may seem broad and inviting, yet it ends in danger and decline. George W. Bush Does this mean that unilateralism, intervention- ism, militarism and a knee-jerk devotion to free trade will lead us to safety and prosperity? If Mr. Bush is so enamored with free trade, why the rhetoric about "America is addicted to oil, which is often imported from unstable parts of the world"? If Free-trade ideology is right, what is wrong with importing oil? Trade deficits don't matter. Or do they? We import steel, cars, electronics and boatloads of plastic Chinese crap sold at Wal-Mart. Why should oil be any different? Cheers | ||
| Scrotis Lo Knows Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 603 Registered: 10-2005 |
see all the usual suspects had a field day with the SOTU... Tulip seems a little over excited...calm down girl... Criticize where you may, but the speech, politically speaking, was pure genius.... Start a Revolution or shut the hell up... | ||
| COCO Citizen Username: Coco Post Number: 2 Registered: 1-2006 |
COCO, COCO-COCO, CO-CO,COCOCOCO,COCO, COCO-COCO, CO-CO,COCOCOCO,COCO, COCO-COCO, CO-CO,COCOCOCO,COCO, COCO-COCO, CO-CO,COCOCOCO. COCO! | ||
| notehead Supporter Username: Notehead Post Number: 3017 Registered: 5-2001  |
Official response to the address from a better man than Bush... Remember this? "The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." Those are George Bush's famous 16 words from his 2003 State of the Union address, delivered less than two months before he sent troops into war in Iraq. They were false. Three years later Americans are still demanding answers on the manipulation of intelligence by an administration eager to start a war. Americans have a lot of questions that went unanswered tonight. When George Bush delivered his State of the Union address, he had a big megaphone and the world's attention. He had the opportunity to regain some degree of credibility with the American people -- more than half of whom disapprove of his performance as president. But he failed to answer the real questions ordinary Americans have about the state of our union: When will we have a new strategy in Iraq that protects American lives? Violence is increasing, not decreasing there and the mismanagement of this war has cost the lives of Americans and billions of dollars in fraud. And when will we secure our ports and chemical and nuclear plants, which remain vulnerable? When will the Republican Party put its responsibility to the people before its greed and thirst for power? The Republican culture of corruption in the executive and legislative branches has violated the law and cost taxpayers billions. When will President Bush and the Republican Congress wake up to the economic crisis tens of millions of Americans face? Good jobs are leaving this country, and many of the jobs that remain exploit working families by denying them adequate benefits. Millionaires and corporations receive tax breaks while Americans can't afford to save, and the gap between rich and poor continues to widen to levels unseen since the 19th century. When will we finally do something for the 46 million Americans who lack health insurance? Many have had their lives ruined financially when the worst happened, and many more no longer seek the care they need because they cannot afford it. When will we make serious strides towards energy independence? We get a greater percentage of our oil from cartels and dictatorships now than we did in 2000. When will he take steps to further ensure retirement security for every American? Growing old with dignity is a right, not a privilege, and dismantling Social Security in favor of private accounts is the wrong direction for our society. If Bush and the Republicans would bother to answer these questions, the answers would be simple. But they won't answer. That's because the answer to each and every one is "Never." Never as long as they control our government, never as long as they can execute the same incompetent, dishonest and destructive government without paying a price at the ballot box. The answer will be "never" until we grow the operation and build the infrastructure to beat them. Part of that means telling people clearly and unambiguously what we stand for -- and I'll tell you right now: Real security -- we will protect Americans at home by getting serious about homeland security, and address the real threats abroad by capturing or killing Osama bin Laden and focusing on actual (not imagined) nuclear proliferation. We will be prepared for the threats of tomorrow, and we will always tell the truth to our troops and the American people. Honest leadership and open government -- we will end the criminal Republican culture of corruption and restore a sense of responsibility to elected office, and we will pass fundamental reforms that make government more honest, open, and accountable to the American people than ever before. Economic prosperity and educational excellence -- we will keep good jobs from leaving and ensure that every job in America is a fair deal. We will balance the budget, ensure that the tax code is simple and fair, and invest in education to ensure that every American has an equal opportunity to succeed. A health care system that works for everyone -- we will join every other industrialized country by making sure everyone has access to affordable health care. We will change a corrupt, inefficient system into one that makes sure the world's wealthiest country is also the healthiest. Energy independence -- we will reduce our reliance on foreign oil by investing in cleaner and more efficient technology. We will treat energy independence as what it is -- not only a conservation issue, but an economic and national security issue. Retirement security -- we will strengthen Social Security and make sure that a retirement with dignity is the right and expectation of every single American. Tonight and tomorrow, Republicans will be out in full force, spinning, distracting, distorting and dividing. But don't be fooled. You know what you heard in Bush's speech -- and you know the reality. When Republicans hurl insults and lies, we must be ready to stand up and speak the truth in response -- and to make sure our friends and neighbors are not afraid to do the same. Please take the time to write a letter to the editor about what's wrong with the Republican priorities -- and what we'll do to put America on the right track: http://www.democrats.org/sotu/rapidresponse We cannot sit back and let them attack us. And we cannot sit back and let them attack the values and ideals we hold dear. That's why we are investing millions of dollars and countless volunteer hours to build the Democratic Party everywhere. We're building a year-round, 50-state party capable of winning elections for every level of office. Building our party everywhere isn't only about electing more Democrats. It's about bringing people back into the political process and ensuring that we have at least one political party representative of, and responsible to, the people. These are not short-term investments, and we are not there yet. But we will only create lasting change if every single one of us takes responsibility for speaking out and organizing in our local community. Over the next ten months, that's exactly what we're going to do. Thank you. Governor Howard Dean, M.D. | ||
| Innisowen Citizen Username: Innisowen Post Number: 1443 Registered: 3-2004 |
"Criticize where you may, but the speech, politically speaking, was pure genius...." Not quite. It possessed the dull thud of a large man suddenly keeling over from a heart attack. Failed programs, failed initiatives in Iraq, failure to rescue the Gulf Coast, among other abortive initiatives. Then the president's brilliant declaration that the nation is "addicted to oil" (remember those closed door Dick Cheney energy meetings in 2000? and the Dick Cheney response that "conservation is only a personal virtue"?) A dull thud, indeed. The patient just keeled over. | ||
| Haight-Strawbury Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 6719 Registered: 10-2001  |
holy ignorance. There's nothing like being on the ocean! | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 5109 Registered: 8-2003 |
Tulip -- it goes like this. You want healthcare, affordable healthcare particularly in your old age. You and others don't have the money for it. How do you get it? Do you pay for it? Maybe, but not nearly in terms of the cost of what you use. Who then pays for it? Other American taxpayers and quite possibly your 30-40 year old kids should you have any. And now drugs are expensive for you so you want a program for that. They're too expensive for you, so you need and want others to pay for your drugs. Be it Medicare or Medicaid, others have to pay for it and you're upset if you don't get it. Social Security -- you like the program. You also will draw more than the amount you put into the program and whatever piddling return it garnered. You need that money to live and therefore need the money of others -- and your kids in terms of the deficits required to keep that ridiculous entitlement around -- to pay for your existence. This drug benefit isn't a request. It's a demand. Without a thank-you after it's granted, like other benefits in this country. It's a right. That's what I mean. Senior Citizens are the greediest special interest lobby in the country. Not saying you're there yet, tulip, but that's the example I'm drawing from. | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 4297 Registered: 5-2001 |
would you feel better if I said "thank you"? Thank you. It's nice that we all take care of each other. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 780 Registered: 10-2004  |
in cjcs world we all take have to look out for ourselves and if my circumstances are not as good as his then too bad for me. It must be nice living in the palace. The US needs to fix its healthcare system. Nationalized health care works in other countries. Identical procedures in the US to Mexico can cost 5 times more. The health insurance lobby wrote the medicare drug bill so that they would profit. Today McCain on CBS called the bill a disaster. The corruption in the congress who allowed the lobbiests to write that bill (and others) and the laisez faire attitude by the president who didnt read or comprehend what he approved is an abomination. There was a surplus in the treasury before this administration got its hands on it. The gravy train is still going strong and every special interest is still getting served. Rail on about entitlements if you like but this president never met an appropriations bill he didnt approve. | ||
| Southerner Citizen Username: Southerner Post Number: 626 Registered: 2-2004 |
Okay Hoops, Let me know how it goes the next time you travel to Mexico for medical care. | ||
| GOP Man Citizen Username: Headsup Post Number: 269 Registered: 5-2005  |
cjc is right. Senior citizens are deserving of nothing. If they had done their jobs as parents better, their kids might be more thankful, and less resentful of supporting them in their old age. The mere fact that boomers and Xers don't want to pay for SS and Medicare is all the proof you need of how awful the greedy geezers were as parents. | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 1485 Registered: 3-2004  |
in cjcs world we all take have to look out for ourselves and if my circumstances are not as good as his then too bad for me. It must be nice living in the palace. so you would prefer a system where there is a redistribution of wealth so that everyone has the same thing? guess what that is called. Complaining isnt activism. stop bitching on the internet and do something about it! | ||
| dougw Citizen Username: Dougw Post Number: 700 Registered: 3-2005 |
Sounds like it is time to start outsourcing our healthcare to Mexico. Viva free markets! | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 12252 Registered: 1-2003  |
Right, GOP Man. It's not as if old people have done anything for us in the past! "mem's signature is trendier than mine." | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 5111 Registered: 8-2003 |
In Hoops world, he would gladly turn his future over to bureaucrats and avoid the hard work and drive necessary to better one's lot to instead live a guaranteed life of mediocrity with benefits that he won't have to pay for. It's his right to demand of others and not even try or educate himself on the intricacies of buying simple index funds and shopping around for non-emergency healthcare. The surplus going forward in the Treasury was a paper projection -- just like the profits in your 401K if you have one -- which of course can change if the market changes and you hit a Clinton recession. What was the originanl projection of the costs of Medicare? | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 781 Registered: 10-2004 |
Southerner - people who live in Texas have been going to Mexico for medical treatment for years. There are many people who travel outside of the country specifically to receive healthcare much cheaper then they could receive in the USA. They go to Thailand, Mexico, Canada and I am sure there are many others. And FYI the doctors are highly trained many at American medical schools. dougw is correct. If you have the money to travel and shop around you can buy an operation for less plus get a fabulous vacation while recuperating. Its no joke however, that our healthcare in the US is artificially expensive. Something needs to be done because our insurance costs are skyrocketing and the number of uninsured rises every year. 46,000,000 uninsured people is not something this country should be proud of. | ||
| GOP Man Citizen Username: Headsup Post Number: 270 Registered: 5-2005 |
right again cjc. If you give greedy senior citizens health care, that's the last straw. you're on a one-way ticket to a guaranteed mediocre life. because when bureaucrats pay your medical bills, you know what happens next. you lose all ambition, will to work, and next thing you know, you're dependent on the government teat for everything. and I for one object to people sucking on teats that I have to pay for. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 782 Registered: 10-2004 |
cjc - nice comeback  | ||
| Innisowen Citizen Username: Innisowen Post Number: 1444 Registered: 3-2004 |
This year, both Ground Hog Day and the United States State of the Union Address fall in the same week. "It is an ironic juxtaposition. One event involves a meaningless ritual in which we look to a creature of little intelligence for prognostication. The other event involves a ground hog." | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 5112 Registered: 8-2003 |
Hoops -- thanks. Canadian patients on months-long waiting lists usually come to the US. It's either in the UK or Germany that their system will pay for healthcare due to waits or unavailability or complete lack thereof in other countries. If you nationalize healthcare, you're going to get rationing. So fine -- have a base-level universal system and let people afford additional care should they choose to do so. But you can't do that, because it isn't "fair" someone can buy more of something if they have more. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 10496 Registered: 5-2001 |
Cjc, in all countries that have national healthcare their is an option to see, and pay for, private physicians. Ever hear of Harley Street in London? I think a basic national plan that can be supplemented with private insurance makes a lot of sense. If you or your employeer wants to pay for broader coverage, fine. | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 5113 Registered: 8-2003 |
I think Canada just recently allowed private insurance outside of the national plan. They also have some private hospitals, and those on the left fear it will create two systems. It's that stupid fairness argument. Guy once asked me "just because you have more money means you should get more healthcare?" Well.....yes, if I want to buy it. And if I don't have it, then I can't buy it. Seems simple enough to me. That's the problem. You won't see the Left satisfied with a 'basic' level of health insurance if others can afford more. The left will tax those who can afford more to pay for more-than-basic coverage for the rest of the population and pretty soon you're not basic anymore. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 783 Registered: 10-2004 |
cjc - I think that supplying health care to all those that need it is essential. I am not talking about elective surgery, I am talking about the necessities - checkups, shots, testing, repairing damage due to accident and injury, disease care and prevention etc. If that the 'basic' level then I dont think we have a problem. If I want to get my eyebrow moved to my bellybutton I can pay for it myself but if I require a coronary bypass it should be covered. | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 5115 Registered: 8-2003 |
As well as using the latest technology and therapies regardless of their high cost because they are so new? | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 784 Registered: 10-2004 |
No plan is perfect but I am certainly not suggesting using a rusty saw when a scalpel is available. If the latest technology is available then of course it should be used. The research and development of new treatments are costly but in the long run they save money and lives. The cost of newer technologies would be much less if the US did not give away the rights to the patents developed using our tax dollars. I am not proposing the national health plan that we should adopt. Why not study all of the nations that currently do supply such a plan and use what works and improve what does not. I dont think anything is perfect but we can do better than what we currently have. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 12254 Registered: 1-2003 |
How to ration healthcare is a question every country is grappling with. This is where I wouldn't mind if the US chose a solution no one else has settled on, i.e. we should not follow the others. But the system we have is not working. How to handle basic care is a different question than how to decide when someone is not worthy of receiving care, such as old people who are likely to die soon, no matter how we treat them. Pooling resources makes plenty of sense to nearly all of us, except the most selfish among us. "mem's signature is trendier than mine." | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 5117 Registered: 8-2003 |
Those demanding unending care regardless of it's cost to others and their children are the truly selfish. | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 1486 Registered: 3-2004 |
Pooling resources makes plenty of sense to nearly all of us, except the most selfish among us. according to your point: selfish people are for democracy and capitalism "nearly all of us" are for communism and the redistribution of wealth and resources. cause that is the principle that you are espousing Complaining isnt activism. stop bitching on the internet and do something about it! | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 12257 Registered: 1-2003 |
Yes, I suppose that's true. However it's not true of those who just want "ending" i.e. basic health care for their tax money. In other words, by using the word "unending" you are propping up a strawman and oh-so-cleverly knocking it down. You are not characterizing the common person, however. "mem's signature is trendier than mine." | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 12258 Registered: 1-2003 |
Libertarian said: selfish people are for democracy and capitalism That's an extrapolation of my point which does not reflect my views. Democracy is the process of enacting policy which most of the people want. Capitalism is the best system most of the time. Sometimes, it's not. Yelling "socialism" as if town hall is on fire doesn't really explain much. You've even granted that certain socialist institutions are good, such as police and roads. We are not purely socialist, nor should we be, and we are not purely anti-socialist. "mem's signature is trendier than mine." | ||
| Dr. Winston O'Boogie Citizen Username: Casey Post Number: 1897 Registered: 8-2003  |
the choice boils down to this. do we as a country want to have 45 million (and rising) uninsured people, or do we want to make sure that the most fortunate among us (essentially all of us here on this board, and people like us) only have to wait 2 weeks if we need knee surgery, instead of 2 months. unfortunately, in this country we never seem to bottom line these things when we can demogogue them instead. | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 1487 Registered: 3-2004 |
who just want "ending" i.e. basic health care for their tax money. how about reducing taxes and paying for your own health care? rather than forcing people to contribute to a failing system, how about no forced contribution and the money saved can be used to make your own choices? that would be a truly democratic health care plan. Complaining isnt activism. stop bitching on the internet and do something about it! | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 1488 Registered: 3-2004 |
Libertarian said: selfish people are for democracy and capitalism That's an extrapolation of my point which does not reflect my views what other point am i to derive from the suggestion that resources be pooled in order to create an equal distribution? Complaining isnt activism. stop bitching on the internet and do something about it! | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 5118 Registered: 8-2003 |
Socialism is where misery is spread equally. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 12259 Registered: 1-2003 |
Libertarian, didn't you just applaud a governor for a rule that requires people to buy their own health insurance? Yet now you object to forced contribution? I realize the difference is that the insurer in the former case is private and it's public in the latter case. But they're both forced contributions. As to why not pay for one's health care, it's because not every required procedure is affordable, but premiums are. That's why I pay my premium, even in months when I'm healthy. "mem's signature is trendier than mine." | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 12260 Registered: 1-2003 |
cjc wrote: Socialism is where misery is spread equally. You could say that. Are you arguing for the dismantling of all socialist institutions, such as police and roads? "mem's signature is trendier than mine." | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 1490 Registered: 3-2004 |
cause i want our government, a fiscally responsible and equal minded organization, to take my money and redistribute it equally so that we all have the same thing, thereby making it pointless for me to work any harder than the guy next to me. Complaining isnt activism. stop bitching on the internet and do something about it! | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 1491 Registered: 3-2004 |
Libertarian, didn't you just applaud a governor for a rule that requires people to buy their own health insurance? Yet now you object to forced contribution? I realize the difference is that the insurer in the former case is private and it's public in the latter case. But they're both forced contributions. i applauded it because it is a fine first step towards a return of personal responsibility. yes, the law would force you to buy insurance, but the individual could choose their own carrier, plan, and how much to buy. As to why not pay for one's health care, it's because not every required procedure is affordable, but premiums are. That's why I pay my premium, even in months when I'm healthy. sorry for being obtuse, but i dont see the point you are trying to make with this sentence. Complaining isnt activism. stop bitching on the internet and do something about it! |
