| Author | Message | ||
     Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 860 Registered: 10-2004  |
Real leaders dont require press and marketing agents to dress them for press briefings and picture opportunities. Bush with his sleaves rolled up walking around like he is doing something before his 'Brownie your doing a heckuva job' moment was pure theater. Real leaders dont say what they dont mean. Real leaders when they say something try like hell to follow through. Real leaders learn from their mistakes. Real leaders are forthright and not condescending. Real leaders accept criticism in order to check their own positions. Real leaders attempt to foster consensus before taking action. Real leaders are respected. Bush does not qualify. | ||
| Robert Livingston Citizen Username: Rob_livingston Post Number: 1658 Registered: 7-2004  |
Bravo, and well said Hoops. | ||
| Guy Supporter Username: Vandalay Post Number: 1620 Registered: 8-2004  |
Everybody made mistakes, but it wasn't a total screw up except for Anderson Cooper's reporting. Get past the hysteria of trying to nail Bush (who shares some of the blame) and read this. http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/earth/2315076.html | ||
| Robert Livingston Citizen Username: Rob_livingston Post Number: 1659 Registered: 7-2004 |
Interesting article, Guy. Thanks for posting the link. One thing that the article points out that was definitely overlooked was the heroism of the Coast Guard. Still, nothing in the article debunks the fact that Bush said "no one anticipated the breach of the levees" when that wasn't true at all. Why would he lie like that? | ||
| Duncan Supporter Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 5832 Registered: 12-2001  |
Guy, one doesn't even have to read that article to see that, once again, you are missing the point. | ||
| Guy Supporter Username: Vandalay Post Number: 1621 Registered: 8-2004 |
Not agreeing with and missing are two different things. | ||
| Robert Livingston Citizen Username: Rob_livingston Post Number: 1660 Registered: 7-2004 |
Also, let's not forget that we know now Bush was briefed in great detail about the severity of the storm and its potentially devastating effects, and what did he do in the days after? That's right, he went on a fundraising junket. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 861 Registered: 10-2004 |
actually I dont think Guy is missing the point, I think he is blurring it intentionally. The article he posted is written so that the layman can understand the problems of the Gulf Coast. It is a very good article and very optimistic on what can be done to improve the quality of life for the people who live in this dangerous area. However, Guy, it does not let the president, FEMA, DHS, or any other official off the hook for the 300,000 residents who stayed in NO and the ones who went to shelters who did not find relief and in fact found greater suffering. Bush catered to the press and to his base by lying to Americans about the scope and actuality of the problems, and he does this as part of his normal business. | ||
| dave23 Citizen Username: Dave23 Post Number: 1420 Registered: 5-2001 |
Guy, Anderson was hardly alone in the hysterics. Fox News had a field day reporting that "armed thugs" were shooting at rescue workers. Nagin was a part of it, too. (Bush was too busy vacationing to bother to be caught up in it.) | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 12733 Registered: 1-2003  |
Guy, your argument is weak. You say he didn't lie, and I point out that he might have been unaware, but it's just as bad. You say that we're all upset when, in fact, lots people made mistakes, even the residents. Well, that's quite true, but it's not a defense of Bush's failure to respond adequately. I can't think of a reasonable defense of his inaction, though I'd like to see you try. I haven't seen you try yet. Look, he had an opportunity to do a job, and he missed it. It's that simple. He didn't do the job, OK? And as I have pointed out, there's a second opportunity for him on the Gulf Coast. It hasn't run out, and he's still not seizing it. Go figure. I mean, he could show up the mayor and the governor. He could show up the governors of Mississippi and Alabama, too, by doing a better job than they do. But he'd rather blame the local governments. Where does that leave things? In shambles. That's not leadership, is it, Guy? Don't answer. I'll answer for you. No, it's not leadership, Guy. It's blamership, to coin a word. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 862 Registered: 10-2004 |
Blam-er-ship (Blâm-r-ship') n. The position or office of a blamer: ascended to the blamership of the party. Capacity or ability to blame: showed strong blamership during his first term in office. A group of blamers: met with the blamership of the republican party.. Misguidance; misdirection: The business suffered great losses under the blamership of the new president. To misplace responsibility for (something): As a true expert in blamership he passed the crisis off on the victims of the hurricane. --- with apologies to Tom, I love the new word --- | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 12736 Registered: 1-2003 |
No apology necessary. Thank you for taking my idea and running with it! | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3294 Registered: 3-2004 |
Thanks, dave23, for pointing out that Bush had been on vacation, one of those month-long vacations. There are some other points to consider: 1) In the newly-located videotape, Bush tries to reassure local officials that "everything is ready to help," "we are ready to help" "We have enough (men, materiel, equipment) to help you during the storm and after it" and generally reassuring them that everything that they did not have locally, the federal government would provide. 2) Chertoff went on the day of the flood, to a conference of avian flu, so the criticism that the Republicans made in their report, that Brown did not go "up the chain of command" now seems moot, since the next step up wasn't even around to report to 3) that NOT A SOUL from the federal government actually WENT to the scene of the flood AS IT HAPPENED, and Bush was getting his info from Anderson Cooper and other journalists who had the guts to go there in person. I mean, the most important violation is the first one, that Bush gave false promises, or promises he had not adequately checked out, to the local officials. Yes, the Governor should have had reporters on the scene to tell her when the levees were breeched. I don't understand why, except that it's next to impossible, unless you are in a helicopter, to radio or phone about the breech, when you are so close to it as to be able to report that it is happening. However, I don't know that we can blame the Governor for missing the mark on that, as she was in the thick of things, and didn't make any false promises. I also don't understand why the train system was not used as people were struggling to escape the coastal cities. All these things are easy to ask in hindsight. What is not easy to answer, is why the President gave false assurances. I have heard the media report that it was because they "thought they had dodged the bullet" but that really isn't reason enough. I would ask Bush how he knew he had enough to help out, and why he didn't send people from the federal government out to see what was going on, and get the "situational information" he says he did not have. It's the old sense of urgency problem. I guess he trusted his "team" and "his government," maybe too much. | ||
| themp Supporter Username: Themp Post Number: 2641 Registered: 12-2001  |
Oh, come on. Who cares? Why argue about it anymore. The cat is out of the bag on this one. Standard responses to Bush criticism: Guy: Clinton did worser. Southernbelle: We WANT to run the country badly. That's cause we CAN. CJC: My fifteen seconds of websurfing will demolish your arguments. | ||
| Robert Livingston Citizen Username: Rob_livingston Post Number: 1661 Registered: 7-2004 |
Scrotis: I don't know what it means exactly, nor can I come up with any examples, but you guys legislate from the bench. And something about the constitution. Yeah. I'm funny. | ||
| Guy Supporter Username: Vandalay Post Number: 1622 Registered: 8-2004 |
Gentlemen , I am simply pointing out that there were many failures and successes to the Katrina response. It was not a total failure. Time for the weekend. If anybody's going to the Battle of the Bands, I'll buy you a beer. Cheers. | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 4454 Registered: 5-2001 |
and of course Straw: It's bad and I can't refute it so I'll just dismiss it with "boring" | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 4455 Registered: 5-2001 |
Guy, we'll see you there. Vote for Big Train. | ||
| Duncan Supporter Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 5835 Registered: 12-2001 |
If you can find it, watch the documentary that Brian Williams put together from his work down there during the 'cane. He was inside the dome, and his camera op shot some stuff that will turn your stomach. When the US Gov't gets its on the ground info from reporters there is something seriously wrong | ||
| Guy Supporter Username: Vandalay Post Number: 1623 Registered: 8-2004 |
Duncan, what pissed me off the most was that the collective resources of the United States couldn't get relief to the Super Dome. On the other hand the collective efforts of the Coast Guard and National Guard rescued over 100k people. tom, you got my vote. | ||
| The SLK Effect Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 954 Registered: 10-2005 |
I must be on RL's sh*tlist...gosh dangit!  | ||
| Duncan Supporter Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 5838 Registered: 12-2001 |
And I guess where our paths diverge, Guy, is that the responsibility of the collective resources of the United States lands on the desk of the POTUS. And amen to the Coast Guard and NG. I just believe that more could have been and should have been done sooner. And no matter how cliched or corny it has become, the buck does stop there. At that desk in the Oval Office.` | ||
| Southerner Citizen Username: Southerner Post Number: 772 Registered: 2-2004 |
themp, Nice shot. I enjoyed the chuckle. And you are dead on in the belle statement, except we don't WANT to we DO. | ||
| Grrrrrrrrrrr Citizen Username: Oldsctls67 Post Number: 325 Registered: 11-2002  |
SLK, read the "Gay friendly places" thread in Please Help. He narced on us both! lol! | ||
| Guy Supporter Username: Vandalay Post Number: 1624 Registered: 8-2004 |
The AP would like the title of this thread changed. Clarification: Katrina-Video story ASSOCIATED PRESS WASHINGTON (AP) _ In a March 1 story, The Associated Press reported that federal disaster officials warned President Bush and his homeland security chief before Hurricane Katrina struck that the storm could breach levees in New Orleans, citing confidential video footage of an Aug. 28 briefing among U.S. officials. The Army Corps of Engineers considers a breach a hole developing in a levee rather than an overrun. The story should have made clear that Bush was warned about floodwaters overrunning the levees, rather than the levees breaking. The day before the storm hit, Bush was told there were grave concerns that the levees could be overrun. It wasn't until the next morning, as the storm was hitting, that Michael Brown, then head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, said Bush had inquired about reports of breaches. Bush did not participate in that briefing. | ||
| Duncan Supporter Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 5839 Registered: 12-2001 |
Guy, that doesn't mitigate the horrific job that the White House did in responding to a major, forewarned natural disaster. Mincing words is so Clintonesque, no? George W. Bush was given every indication that a major (possibly the biggest ever) hurricane was going to slam into a major port city of the US and he sat on his hands. Never mind what local and state folks were up to, I have said it before and will say it again, the man ran a campaign on making sure that the USA was safe. And when given a heads up that part of it wasn't going to be he punted. | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 4459 Registered: 5-2001 |
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| Duncan Supporter Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 5841 Registered: 12-2001 |
Drove my chevy to the levee but the levee was dry...  | ||
| The SLK Effect Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 956 Registered: 10-2005 |
Duncan, What did you expect the feds to do that the state and locals weren't doing? EVERYONE on every level knew those levees needed some repair but apparently to some of you since the levees failed it is all Bush's fault. Give me a break partisan boy...the feds screwed up for sure, but those below them screwed up even worse.... AI said before so I may as well say it again, if a speeding train is barreling down on you, get the hell out of the way.... -SLK | ||
| Duncan Supporter Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 5844 Registered: 12-2001 |
SLK...you sure read what you want no matter what. I am not blaming BUSH for the levee's failing. I am blaming BUSH for the horrible lack of leadership at a time of national crisis. I also blame the State and Local folks as well, but as I have said before, if you are going to be a POTUS who runs on a platform of homeland security and then are given an opportunity to rise to the occasion and you sit on your •••, then you best expect to get lashed for it. And you calling me "partisan boy" is downright hysterical. Pot calling the kettle black, takes one to know one and all that. | ||
| Southerner Citizen Username: Southerner Post Number: 779 Registered: 2-2004 |
Duncan, Why is calling someone partisan a negative in your book? Every person who votes in an election is partisan because you can only pull one lever, unless somehow you were able to vote for two different candidates (Diebold only allows double voting for Republicans). SLK calls you partisan and you act liked he kicked your dog. Every poster on this board is a partisan of some sort. It's like when I call someone a lib. Most of you get so offended. Why? Aren't you proud of your philosophy? I just don't get a lot of the reactions on this board sometimes. You can call me partisan and conservative, or Republican, or Neo-con all you want because non of those terms disparage me. At least be honest with yourself. That is why I respect and like Reingold so much. We disagree on everything but the guy stands by his words and convictions. I'm sure when I call him a lib he is sitting there in agreement just like I am when someone calls me partisan. Sitting on the fence will only lead to abject frustration which is what many of you are feeling (especially those libs who feel so much guilt because they voted for Bush). | ||
| The SLK Effect Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 970 Registered: 10-2005 |
Duncan, I hear and agree with you on the homeland security concern. Unlike you there are many that only blame the feds in this....partisan boy... -SLK -SLK | ||
| anon Supporter Username: Anon Post Number: 2630 Registered: 6-2002 |
There used to be a magazine called "The Partisan Review". The publishers must have thought that the word "partisan" was positive. On the other hand just picking which side of the fence to be on and then judging everything and everyone by whether they are on your side or the other is an abdication of the responibility to think critically and think for yourself. | ||
| Duncan Supporter Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 5849 Registered: 12-2001 |
Southerner, read the post before mine, ok? How about being a little more thorough, eh? | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 4460 Registered: 5-2001 |
. No, there's a different word for a person who votes in an election. Voter. Webster's defines partisan as, "a firm adherent to a party , faction, cause, or person; especially : one exhibiting blind, prejudiced, and unreasoning allegiance" | ||
| Southerner Citizen Username: Southerner Post Number: 782 Registered: 2-2004 |
tom, And that describes everyone on this board. Of course many posters aren't honest with themselves and claim to be open minded. Please. Everyone knows who they vote for and if that vote is typically given to the same party then you are a partisan. Something tells me Duncan voted for Kerry, Gore, Clinton, Dukakis, Mondale and Carter. I guess if someone voted for all these guys they are not adhering to a party, faction, or cause with blind prejudiced. Most libs aren't very good at self analysis. | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 5289 Registered: 8-2003 |
The premise of this thread is inaccurate. AP has corrected their errors. Will bettyd? AP clarifies story about Katrina, Bush WASHINGTON — In a Wednesday story, The Associated Press reported that federal disaster officials warned President Bush and his Homeland Security chief before Hurricane Katrina struck that the storm could breach levees in New Orleans, citing confidential video footage of an Aug. 28 briefing. The Army Corps of Engineers considers a breach a hole developing in a levee rather than an overrun. The story should have made clear that Bush was warned about floodwaters overrunning the levees, rather than the levees breaking. The day before Katrina, Bush was told there were grave concerns the levees could be overrun. It wasn’t until the next morning, as the storm made landfall, that Michael Brown, then head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, said Bush had asked about reports of breaches. Bush did not participate in that briefing. http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/14015353.htm?source=rss&channel=thesta te_news | ||
| GOP Man Citizen Username: Headsup Post Number: 289 Registered: 5-2005  |
that makes all the difference. clearly this means that FEMA can't be held responsible for anything that happened after Katrina, and ipso facto, our president is also not responsible for anything. | ||
| Southerner Citizen Username: Southerner Post Number: 785 Registered: 2-2004 |
No, our President is responsible for a lot of things. At the top of the list is turning liberals into two year olds for 8 years and turning Gore and Kerry into historical footnotes! | ||
| The SLK Effect Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 982 Registered: 10-2005 |
cjc- Just another fine example of the libs getting their fruit of a looms in a bind before all the facts are out... -SLK |
