| Author | Message | ||
     AlleyGater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 1234 Registered: 10-2004 |
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/14033619.htm You Republicans aligned yourselves with the Religious Right. Thanks for that. Please note, my favorite part
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| CageyD Citizen Username: Cageyd Post Number: 637 Registered: 6-2003 |
Imagine, you've been raped and are pregnant as a result - - in South Dakota you, the victim must - pay for your doctor's visits to care for your rapists baby - pay for clothing to fit your pregnant body - take time off work for meidcal appointments and child delivery using your vacation/sick time/personal time IF OFFERED or taking time off without pay potentially losing your job because you are the victim of rape - pay hundreds in hospital co-pays if you're lucky - or if uninsured, pay the full cost of hospitalization to deliver this rape baby. - endure the physical aftermath and scars of pregnancy and delivery for the rest of your life. Yes rape victims, the politicians of South Dakota care so much about you that they are willing to have you pay thousands of dollars in medical costs, have you potentially lose your job, and maybe even suffer serious health consequences all because it's the right thing to do. I just hope that every legislator who voted for this has a loved one endure the kind of experience described above. Then there will be justice. | ||
| The Oracle of MOL Supporter Username: Oracle_of_mol Post Number: 222 Registered: 2-2005  |
The heads on Mount Rushmore are shaking sadly this day. --The Oracle of MOL | ||
| Grrrrrrrrrrr Citizen Username: Oldsctls67 Post Number: 343 Registered: 11-2002  |
Lucky for you, you don't live in SD...lol! Most Republicans aren't against abortion, but rather that the legality and the details of it be decided on a STATE level. You have to understand that a large part of the Republican power base is Mormon. There is always going to be that radical element. | ||
| Duncan Supporter Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 5886 Registered: 12-2001  |
Grrrrr...do you have stats to back up that Mormon assertion? I cannot imagine that as a percentage of the whole party that they count for very much. | ||
| Nohero Supporter Username: Nohero Post Number: 5139 Registered: 10-1999  |
I think a lot of Republicans (especially those around here) tell themselves that "most Republicans" are not trying to legally ban all types of abortion. This is what the Republican Party states in the party platform (http://www.gop.com/media/2004platform.pdf): Please note that the party platform does not say that "the legality and the details of it be decided on a STATE level". The Party is proposing that these restrictions be imposed on a national level. | ||
| MBJ Citizen Username: Mbj Post Number: 176 Registered: 10-2005 |
Alley, instead of venting your hatred of Republicans on a MAPLEWOOD-SOUTH ORANGE message board (neither of which are located in South Dakota), why don't you channel your hatred towards the legislators who actually passed the bill by sending them a letter. Or maybe you could forward your post to them. Just a thought. | ||
| Case Citizen Username: Case Post Number: 1231 Registered: 2-2005 |
Unreal. Time to get the checkbook out... ACLU or Planned Parenthood? Or both? | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 4828 Registered: 9-2001  |
"It's Pro-Life vs Pro-Choice." Not "ALL" Republicans are aligned with the Religious Right... so why make this issue just about Republican hatred? Don’t Republicans have enough of a cross to carry already without adding this? I want to believe that most reasonable people believe common sense dictates that victims of crime should not be further victimized by the system... Being our legal system is willing to spend the money to prosecute and incarcerate criminals, somehow the system should be made to protect and support the rights of these victims of rape and incest as well. This legislation makes no sense... | ||
| The SLK Effect Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1013 Registered: 10-2005 |
Right on Grrrrrr, More "Republican hatred". Yup and Dems are incapable of doing the same? What was DOMA? Thank God-Abortion is back on the state level...now maybe the integrity of our US Constitution can be restored? The SD populace have spoken, respect it. But don't fool yourselves folks, this issue isn't over by a long shot... -SLK And no, like all African Americans aren't criminals and crack dealers, all Republicans are not hatemongers and pro-life. Alley, see how close you are with your overhyped generalizations? I also find it funny you overlook Pro-Life Democrats on this matter. You do know they exist, correct? Pardon me now, I have to call my wife and tell her how much I hate her.... | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 4474 Registered: 5-2001 |
"In the history of the world, the true test of a civilization is how well people treat the most vulnerable and most helpless in their society," the governor said. In the context of CageyD's post above, what's wrong with this picture? ajc, thanks for your very reasonable post. SLK, thanks for nothing. I do not have to respect any such thing. And have the people of SD spoken? Or is their legislature out-of-control? | ||
| SoOrLady Citizen Username: Soorlady Post Number: 3063 Registered: 9-2003 |
Perhaps Alley was just pointing out the boldness of the "religious right" since the Bush administration was put into place. IMHO something as personal as abortion should not be legislated on either state or federal levels. It's a decision between the woman and her doctor - period. | ||
| AlleyGater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 1243 Registered: 10-2004 |
I think I have made my opinion ABUNDANTLY clear in my past Anti-Republican threads that I feel that the Republicans need to come to grips with who they have have become bed-fellows with. When you vote Republican you DO IN FACT support Anti-Abortion, you have aligned yourselves with people who feel women should NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to choose for themselves. That is what I find offensive. And that is why I am angered by the "moderate" Republicans who deceive themselves into thinking they can vote for Bush and care about women's reprodutive rights. The two are at odds with eachother. And lets be frank, you care more about saving a few sheckels at tax time each year than you do about the poor person who got raped and who can't afford to leave the country to get an abortion. I know it's not your problem. Got it. Loud and clear over here. | ||
| campbell29 Citizen Username: Campbell29 Post Number: 368 Registered: 4-2002 |
If its a baby - its a baby. It doesn't matter how it got there. Although I am staunchly pro-choice, pretty much the only pro-life position I could reconcile mentally as not being hypocritical would be the same one as SD. Is it draconian, inhumane and invasive? You bet - but it is completely consistent with a pro-life platform. | ||
| Wendyn Supporter Username: Wendyn Post Number: 2771 Registered: 9-2002  |
What amazes me is that for the most part the same people: - want to ban abortion - want to ban or limit sex ed in school - want to limit the availability of birth control - want to limit the funds available for poor people to care for their children - want to limit the ability for same sex partners to adopt I guess the philosopy is that if birth control, abortion and adoption aren't available people will simply stop having sex unless they are financially and emotionally prepared to have a child. Nice concept. Hope it works. My sister had an out of wedlock baby at age 19. Fortunately it worked out ok for her, thanks to a responsible partner (who she married) and help from our mother. 15 years later as a supporter of many conservative ideals she agrees with all of the above. Apparently she thinks that everyone who is as irresponsible and unlucky as she was has the same support system to help them out. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 876 Registered: 10-2004  |
Alley - agree 100%. The republican platform is an anti abortion platform. Voting republican means you are voting for abortion to be illegal in this country. Pro-choice republicans are either not true to themselves or dont care about the issue more then they care about a tax break. | ||
| Zoesky1 Citizen Username: Zoesky1 Post Number: 1404 Registered: 6-2003  |
Wendyn, I couldn't agree more. It amazes me too. What do they think -- that humans will suddenly and miraculously lose interest in sex, therefore this problem will somehow disappear? That maybe if we don't talk about it, fund it or educate about it, no one will do it? And Alleycat, also agreed. I cannot abide people who vote Republican and then turn around and say, "oh, I'm pro-choice, but I am fiscally a Republican." Don't they see that if we put these people in power, they will do what they all do -- band together like a bunch of ignorant idiots to strip away women's rights, gays' rights, etc? | ||
| The SLK Effect Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1014 Registered: 10-2005 |
Why isn't this conversation on the political board? Hoops-So I have a question, are Pro-Life Dems also not being true to themselves? And enough of the drama, or I'll stick to my assertion that all African Americans are criminals no matter how ignorant it. I am pro-choice but understand why someone would hold a pro-life position even though I don't necessarily agree with them on everything. I don't know why everyone's panties are in a bind over this. yes the initial shock is normal, but do you really think it is going to end here? A battle is going to go on for years over this... But take your pick folks, you are either going to protect the integrity of the constitution or you are going to have to trash it to get what you want...can't have both... -SLK | ||
| Robert Livingston Citizen Username: Rob_livingston Post Number: 1681 Registered: 7-2004  |
Scrotis: Maybe there's a lesson you can teach us all to get our panties unbound  ?? Is this guy unbelievable or what? I'm starting to think he's putting us on, GOP Man style... | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 5301 Registered: 8-2003 |
I suggest AlleyGater, CageyD, wendyn and the rest of you who are going off on the 'even in cases of rape and incest' do some more reading on what the bill actually says before you continue, unless looking uninformed doesn't bother you. | ||
| Eats Shoots & Leaves Citizen Username: Mfpark Post Number: 3096 Registered: 9-2001  |
SLK: The issue is not about being true to yourself. The issue is that, by supporting the GOP, you are also directly supporting the effort to totally outlaw abortions in America. A pro-life Dem may believe in his or her heart that abortion is wrong, but they choose to align themselves with the party that will not force this view on others. Perhaps they will try to reduce abortions through persuasion, education, or providing better health care and support for pregnant women, but this is a far cry from outright banning of abortions. I agree with you that the SD vote (and a few others like it are planned very soon) will play out over many years--the SC will get involved, perhaps Congress will get involved (but I doubt it), and maybe the voters will vote the proponents out. But that does not change the fact that the GOP is 100% behind this in its policies and platform, and provides electoral, tactical, and moral support for the people who passed this legislation. | ||
| Nohero Supporter Username: Nohero Post Number: 5141 Registered: 10-1999 |
CJC, the South Dakota law has one, and only one, exception: You can read it if you like - http://legis.state.sd.us/sessions/2006/bills/HB1215enr.htm There is no health exception. There is no rape exception. There is no incest exception. I belive those individuals you mention, are actually quite well-informed about the intent of the law. | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 5302 Registered: 8-2003 |
ESL -- the GOP is not engaged "effort to totally outlaw abortions in America" especially concerning rape and incest. Perhaps the Pope is, but not the GOP. READ THE BILL. | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 5303 Registered: 8-2003 |
Nohero -- you miss this part of your posted link? What's your analysis of this? "Nothing in section 2 of this Act may be construed to prohibit the sale, use, prescription, or administration of a contraceptive measure, drug or chemical, if it is administered prior to the time when a pregnancy could be determined through conventional medical testing and if the contraceptive measure is sold, used, prescribed, or administered in accordance with manufacturer instructions." | ||
| Wendyn Supporter Username: Wendyn Post Number: 2773 Registered: 9-2002 |
Um, I don't give a crap what it does and does not say about rape and incest. I didn't even comment on that. What concerns me is that people who think abortion should not be legal have no suggestions as to how to effectively prevent unwanted pregnancy or take care of the unwanted babies that will be born. In fact most of the pro-life groups try to block birth control education and availability, and limit options available to poor mothers who are unwilling or unable to care for their children. I actually agree with campbell29. If you are going to be against legal abortion on moral grounds, you have to be against it in every instance. Even if your 12 year old daughter is raped. | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 1641 Registered: 3-2004  |
You have to understand that a large part of the Republican power base is Mormon. There is always going to be that radical element. nothing radical about it. if you look at the growth rate of mormon membership you will see that they will be the religious majority in this country within 15 years. they will control this nation. the numbers dont lie. | ||
| Duncan Supporter Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 5893 Registered: 12-2001 |
cjc I read the bill. What do you want to say that makes this any better? IT is a "full frontal assault" on R v W. Gov. said so himself. makes no provision for rape and/or incest
So I guess if you are a 17 year old girl whose father has raped her she should march her little self down to the WalMart and get herself a morning after pill? Cause basically the only provision in the law WHICH I READ, is this
Not sure why READ THE LAW is so important, the summary given in the article and even the beginning of this thread pretty much sums it up. The guy is hoping that a shift on the scotus, with the implementation of this law, will purge Roe V Wade from the books. The whole law seems grounded in facts that were found by a very partisan group and almost made to fit the case. But, unless you are a woman cjc, it shouldn't be up to you or me to say what a woman should or shouldn't do. This is a fundamental plank issue, one that very few people will change their minds about. But as you suggested I READ THE LAW. | ||
| Nohero Supporter Username: Nohero Post Number: 5142 Registered: 10-1999 |
Cjc - You are pointing to language which indicates that the statute does not outlaw the sale of contraceptives. If you note, it's very carefully worded, so that while it would not prohibit a "morning after" pill (which works prior to implantation), that provision does not allow the use of an abortifacient after the pregnancy has commenced. That language does not contradict the clear language of the bill that there is no health exception, no rape exception, and no incest exception. | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 5304 Registered: 8-2003 |
Thanks, Duncan. Yes, the Plan-B pill is allowed in cases of rape and incest. And I agree, it is a frontal assault on Roe. I'm not telling a woman what to do. Are you saying only women can tell other women what to do? People are guaranteed life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and shouldn't be denied that because it may inconvenience someone else. You have to say a life is not a life to allow abortion of a life not conceived via a criminal act. | ||
| Eats Shoots & Leaves Citizen Username: Mfpark Post Number: 3097 Registered: 9-2001 |
cjc--you are reaching for straws in your response to my post. So you say the GOP supports abortion in cases of rape or incest. Fine, but the GOP platform and, more importantly, the majority of its core activists, would ban abortion for almost every instance except rape or incest--and the use of contraception after the fact does not include RU-48 I bet, so it is far from guaranteed to be effective (and still winds up destroying a fetus). You say people are guaranteed a right to life, and that this is the basis for outlawing abortion. Wouldn't this also outlaw the death penalty? | ||
| Duncan Supporter Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 5895 Registered: 12-2001 |
Inconvenience??? Can you really say that the example I cited above (which I grant you is not a large percentage of abortion patients but put that aside for the moment) is simple inconvenienced by the violent sexual assault that resulted in her pregnancy? I don't know if I envy that more absolutism or am terrified by it. | ||
| campbell29 Citizen Username: Campbell29 Post Number: 370 Registered: 4-2002 |
The whole absolutism of the position is the only position one can take if one is going to endow an embryo with the whole panopoly of rights. It can't only be a baby IF it is the result of consensual intercouse. I actually respect the fact that they took all exceptions out - maybe they realize that you can't have it both ways. Of course, this is exactly what will doom this law and any others. The majority of the American public which might be ambivalent about having no restrictions on abortion, certainly doesnt want the procedure outlawed. I wonder if SD gets a referndum on this and defeats it if this law would even make it through the legal system. | ||
| AlleyGater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 1246 Registered: 10-2004 |
Because Soapbox Politics is the most hateful place on the face of the the MOL earth (except for maybe the Education section).  | ||
| AlleyGater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 1247 Registered: 10-2004 |
Ummm...he might not be, but I sure am. I find it OFFENSIVE that a bunch of old white men get to legislate women's bodies. DESPICABLE! But I would adjust the language a bit. I would prefer to say that an individual woman should be able to decide what is right for herself to do with her body. | ||
| AlleyGater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 1248 Registered: 10-2004 |
I think you are an idiot to to state that abortifacient is allowed in cases of rape and incest when the Republicans are trying their damnedest to make sure that those medicines are not easily attained in this country. The Republican's tactics are usually to make it as difficult to aqcuire as possible (especially so for minors). And also it is not healthy or appropriate to use these medicines after a certain time so I don't think they are an acceptable replacement for an abortion. In fact if I remember correctly it was the reason why the director of the FDA's Office of Women's Health, Dr. Susan F. Wood, resigned to protest delays in approving over-the-counter sales of the morning-after pill Plan B. Then shortly afterward the head of the FDA quit. | ||
| The SLK Effect Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1017 Registered: 10-2005 |
the same old same old ••••.....I am staying out of this one... Alley, your sterotyping of ALL Republicans is scary.... I guess All African Americans are indeed criminals... -SLK | ||
| AlleyGater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 1250 Registered: 10-2004 |
If you disagree with your party but your party does evil things then you need to be held responsible for the decisions made by your party. Look SLK you might be a great guy with really liberal opinions on some matters, that is fine, but your party is making horrible decisions for ALL OF US. You have some responsiblity for those decisions since you voted for these decision makers. Stop dodging responsibility. Just own up to the fact that women's reproductive rights are less important than other issues (such as paying less taxes for instance) for you. | ||
| Grrrrrrrrrrr Citizen Username: Oldsctls67 Post Number: 344 Registered: 11-2002 |
AG, you're spouting the same stuff from 1974...is there anything new to add? "Pro-choice republicans are either not true to themselves or dont care about the issue more then they care about a tax break." Hoops, that was a silly thing to say... Duncan, I don't have the time or inclination to research and post Mormon statistics, but I'm telling you, they're out there and they control a lot more stuff than you would think. Libertarian is right on when he says that Mormons will be the religious majority in the US. Catholicism is suffering huge declines in numbers, and the Mormons are gaining numbers. | ||
| Duncan Supporter Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 5909 Registered: 12-2001 |
You might be surprised to know how much I know about the LDS. I certainly didn't mean to raise your hackles, I only asked a question. Time and inclination aside, to quote you, that was a silly thing to say... | ||
| Grrrrrrrrrrr Citizen Username: Oldsctls67 Post Number: 346 Registered: 11-2002 |
Duncan, Hackles weren't raised...I see how my wording sounded a bit snotty. Sorry about that. I do my best not to put too much effort into these message boards, that's all. While I am a dyed-in-the-wool Republican, I am growing increasingly uncomfortable with the influence these religious groups exert. It hasn't yet, but it may cause me at some point to re-examine my position. Don't worry, I'll never turn over to the dark side... |
