| Author | Message | ||
     Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 881 Registered: 10-2004  |
Grrrr - I stand by my statement and cant see how they are 'silly'. Please enlighten me how voting republican is ever a pro-choice position. As long as the religious right is the 'base' of the party then voting republican means agreeing with the anti abortion crowd. | ||
| Grrrrrrrrrrr Citizen Username: Oldsctls67 Post Number: 348 Registered: 11-2002  |
It's not the black/white issue you make it out to be. | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 5305 Registered: 8-2003 |
ESL -- the death penalty follows due process of the law. Not so in the case of aborting a life. | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 2521 Registered: 5-2004  |
Hoops, the problem with your position is this: What if I agree with capital punishment, but also agree with a woman's choice? I couldn't be a Democrat, and I couldn't be a Republican. (pick your own mutually esclusive issues) I'd actually have to think for myself, and weigh each issue, each person's position on each issue, the likelihood that they will impact the issue in each election. | ||
| AlleyGater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 1260 Registered: 10-2004 |
Grrrrrrrrr: I think that is the thing. I guess for me it is sorta black and white. I'm not sure I know how to see it differently. Some things are actually important enough to be passionate about. For some it's owning a gun, others it's women's rights and abortion (and others still it's saving some cash come tax time). Right? | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 4833 Registered: 9-2001  |
"As long as the religious right is the 'base' of the party then voting republican means agreeing with the anti abortion crowd. So, if the far left is the ‘base’ of the party then voting as a Democrat means agreeing with the peace activists, impeach Bush, and the other entire liberal and often radical ideas crowd… IMHO, the more civilized way to exchange comments regarding these “hot topics” would be to be specific and not generalize, especially on the subject of abortion. Anyone voting Republican does NOT mean they are against abortion. There are many other important issues and reasons to vote for one party over another ... | ||
| AlleyGater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 1261 Registered: 10-2004 |
If abortion is overturned, then voting Republican TOTALLY means you are against abortion. How it could it not? You voted for them, they overturned it. You're responsible. | ||
| MBJ Citizen Username: Mbj Post Number: 178 Registered: 10-2005 |
And if I'm "responsible", does that mean I "hate"? | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 2522 Registered: 5-2004 |
Alley, what if you have two issues that you're passionate about, and each party has differing opinions on them? That is, you agree wih one party on one item, and the other party on the other item. I guess you have to choose which is most important, and compromise your beliefs on the other... | ||
| Robert Livingston Citizen Username: Rob_livingston Post Number: 1683 Registered: 7-2004  |
Yeah, Art, those "peace activists" are really threatening your way of life  . Peace activists! Man, you know how to tickle my funnybone... And, yes, anyone voting Republican is voting against pro-choice. And contraceptives, which are next on the GOP agenda to take us back to the 1600s... | ||
| MBJ Citizen Username: Mbj Post Number: 179 Registered: 10-2005 |
Ah yes...taking us back to the 1600s. Silly, stupid stuff. | ||
| AlleyGater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 1262 Registered: 10-2004 |
Rastro: I think you explained quite succinctly why a two party system sucks eggs. But in the current political climate I WOULD weigh the issues most important to me and I would choose a party accordingly. AJC: I sorta giggled to myself at your far-left comment, wondering to myself what is wrong with peace activists and impeaching Bush? But I do understand your point. Like I said earlier, some things I guess are political party deal breakers. Anti-abortion is certainly one of those for me. | ||
| Robert Livingston Citizen Username: Rob_livingston Post Number: 1684 Registered: 7-2004 |
Art, why do you hate peace? Are you agreeing with the war activists, then? Ahh, look out behind you...a peace activist! Oogey boogey peace activist...Bwaaahhhaaahhhhaaaaa!!!! | ||
| AlleyGater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 1263 Registered: 10-2004 |
MBJ: You've had enough discussions with me to know that my hate is really just my way of coping with A HUGE AMOUNT OF DISAPPOINTMENT IN PEOPLE. I can't change the world. I may as well hate it. It's not like I'm going to get a gun and shoot Republicans or get in your REAL LIFE face and attack you. MOL allows us the place to express ourselves. I mean if I didn't let out all this disappointment (which I labelled HATE) in the virtual world, who knows what it might manifest into in the real world. You all have the ability to ignore me--as many do--and as I wish Straw would do. But if you were responsible, it would be great to hear someone take responsiblity. To actually admit they might have made a mistake. I wouldn't jump down anyone's throats for doing that. In fact it would probably make me feel better. I might be less hateful. | ||
| Guy Supporter Username: Vandalay Post Number: 1634 Registered: 8-2004  |
Alley, what is your opinion of the Santorum- Casey Senate race in PA. Casey is a pro life Democrat. | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 4835 Registered: 9-2001 |
As I said, " There are many other important issues and reasons to vote for one party over another ..." Most of us will try to live with these political decisions which ever way they go... It's not like it's the end of the world, at least not yet. This is all part of the circle of life. Listen, try and get real about this. Are we in favor of the rule of law? Do we believe the majority rules in our form of government? Are there really other options for us in almost every case, and on both sides of the issue? I believe the answer will be yes to every one of those questions. I realize how we all can be really passionate about these things, but personally, it all comes down to the fact that each of us must be responsible for ourselves, and in the end we may lose some, and if we’re lucky we may get to win some... You can all do your own thing, but don't try and tell me because I may vote ________that I I'm in favor of ________! | ||
| Guy Supporter Username: Vandalay Post Number: 1636 Registered: 8-2004 |
A pro life Dem hits back. NY State Senator Ruben Diaz directed this sidewinder yesterday at Democrats for Life honcho Kristen Day, who did much ballyhooing for a recent letter signed by numerous pro-abortion Catholic Democrat Congressmen (led by Rosa DeLauro). As the good Reverend points out, you can't enjoy federal programs if you've first been done in at an abortion mill. Viva Diaz! Dear Ms. Day: As a pro-life Democrat and elected official in one of the most liberal cities in the United States, I was shocked and dismayed to read your recent press release supporting a letter written by Rep. Rosa DeLauro and cosigned by mostly pro-abortion Democrats members of Congress. I found it to be deceptive and something I could never embrace. Most of the letter's signers support unrestricted abortion and have a total disregard for the grave moral disorder in our society. And to me it is obvious that no child could enjoy the programs and policies mentioned in this letter if he or she fell victim to abortion. As a Board Member for Democrats for Life of New York, I cannot comprehend how you can officially share the goals of Representative DeLauro's letter. Our goal, as pro-lifers, is to promote a culture of life. Their letter has been written to attack the President and promote a pro-abortion, liberal agenda, and its candidates, which includes the most of the signees. It has not been written to promote respect for the dignity of each human person at all stages of development. It has been signed by too many elected officials who choose to disregard some human life. As a pro-life Democrat, I endure great pain, tribulation and agony by pro-abortion officials and political activists who refuse to promote the sacredness of all human life. Because of my Christian faith and its core beliefs - which include the need to respect all human life - I am the recipient of sharp and constant criticism. However, I am proud of my efforts and ask God to continue to give me the fortitude to continue. I respectfully ask that you reconsider your support for this Congressional letter and its hidden agenda. Fighting for a good educational system, good health services, job creation, affordable housing, and other important social services equally available to all human beings, are some of the reasons that I am a public servant, however, as I said before, an aborted baby will never be able to enjoy these services. Therefore, it is the duty and responsibility of every good Christian, good Catholic and any pro-lifer to defend the sanctity of life and not allow the sagacity of these signees to distance us from our goals. Sincerely, Senator Reverend Ruben Diaz 32nd Senatorial District | ||
| AlleyGater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 1265 Registered: 10-2004 |
Guy, I am not familiar with it. But I wouldn't vote for him the way you described him. I'm NOT a big fan of the two-party system. It forces us all to compromise issues that are too important. I know it's fun to poo-poo Ralph Nader and the Greens but come on there are tons of seats in the House and Senate, doesn't one of those seats deserved to be filled by someone with a different voice. I think the Dems and the Pubs have plenty of seats already. (ADDENDUM: I just noticed your new post and it mentions that this person is a Reverend. I know that isn't a reason in itself to not vote for someone but it scares the bejeebers out of me. I'm pretty vocal about my feelings toward keeping church and state VERY separate. And I would have to do alot of research on this Reverend to convince me to vote for him. Thanks to your article and his vocal anti-abortion politics it is OBVIOUS that my fears are grounded in this case. I DEFINITELY WOULD NOT VOTE FOR THIS PERSON.) AJC, your decisions affect many other people. Your way of thinking strikes me as irresponsible. And just because it won't affect you and me ('cause we can afford to send our children/wives/partners to other states and eventually to other countries to get the procedure done) it will affect others who are less fortunate. | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 4484 Registered: 5-2001 |
Alley, don't forget that the constitution forbids religious tests for public office. That of course would cut both ways -- if you can't forbid someone from holding office for not being a protestant, you can't keep him out for being one either. There was never any intention of keeping religious people out of office. The framers included Abraham Baldwin of Georgia, who was a Chaplain. Having one catholic priest as a state senator is a far cry from establishing Catholicism as the state religion. | ||
| AlleyGater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 1268 Registered: 10-2004 |
I never said that it was a problem for someone religious to hold public office, but I would CERTAINLY scrutinize that person more if they were obviously a visible religious leader. There are and have been very many religious people who have held office who didn't feel they had to force their morals upon everyone else through legislation. | ||
| CageyD Citizen Username: Cageyd Post Number: 640 Registered: 6-2003 |
ACJ, if you're like most GOP/conservatives I know you'll tell us all to "learn to live" with decisions like this SD abortion law BUT heaven f***ing forbid the congress raise your taxes. OH MY GOD!!! That is something that you cannot learn to live with and something we should all rise up against. REPUBLICANS ARE THE MOST SELFISH AND GREEDY HUMAN BEINGS ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH!!!! | ||
| Guy Supporter Username: Vandalay Post Number: 1640 Registered: 8-2004 |
REPUBLICANS ARE THE MOST SELFISH AND GREEDY HUMAN BEINGS ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH!!!! | ||
| Robert Livingston Citizen Username: Rob_livingston Post Number: 1687 Registered: 7-2004 |
"don't try and tell me because I may vote ________that I I'm in favor of ________!" Art, you're just wrong about that. If you vote Republican then you are in favor of the pro-life agenda. Sorry, but that's the way it is. You're also voting for the anti-gay agenda. And pro-war (but you're cool with that since you abhor people in favor of peace...) And anti-environment. Surely you understand what your party stands for by now, no? | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 883 Registered: 10-2004 |
Rastro - that indeed might be a dilemma, however the issue is not one that could cause you not to vote democratic since there is no official platform that democrats support or do not support capital punishment. The parties have platforms upon which they base their principles (of course most of the republican platform principles have been overlooked, ignored or were lies in the first place). There is no capital punishment position in the democratic platform. Crime and violence. While terrorism poses an especially menacing threat to our nation, a strong America must remain vigilant against the scourge of homegrown crime as well. We are proud that Democrats led the fight to put more than 100,000 cops on the beat through the COPS program, and we will continue our steadfast support for COPS and community policing. To keep our streets safe for our families, we support tough punishment of violent crime and smart efforts to reintegrate former prisoners into our communities as productive citizens. We will crack down on the gang violence and drug crime that devastate so many communities, and we will increase drug treatment, including mandatory drug courts and mandatory drug testing for parolees and probationers, so fewer crimes are committed in the first place. We support the rights of victims to be respected, to be heard, and to be compensated. We will help break the cycle of domestic violence by punishing offenders and standing with victims. We will protect Americans' Second Amendment right to own firearms, and we will keep guns out of the hands of criminals and terrorists by fighting gun crime, reauthorizing the assault weapons ban, and closing the gun show loophole, as President Bush proposed and failed to do. - from the democratic platform at the 2004 convention. Here is the bit from the republican platform that calls for 'family' values - Abstinence from sexual activity is the only protection that is 100 percent effective against out-of-wedlock pregnancies and sexually transmitted diseases, including sexually transmitted HIV/AIDS. Therefore, we support doubling abstinence education funding. We oppose school-based clinics that provide referrals, counseling, and related services for contraception and abortion. and this - We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and we endorse legislation to make it clear that the Fourteenth Amendment’s protections apply to unborn children. Our purpose is to have legislative and judicial protection of that right against those who perform abortions. The democratic statement with regards to abortion - We will defend the dignity of all Americans against those who would undermine it. Because we believe in the privacy and equality of women, we stand proudly for a woman's right to choose, consistent with Roe v. Wade, and regardless of her ability to pay. We stand firmly against Republican efforts to undermine that right. At the same time, we strongly support family planning and adoption incentives. Abortion should be safe, legal, and rare. If you are a pro-life democrat your position can be advocation of adoption and family planning, contraception and education. The line abortion should be safe, legal and rare is the goal. Criminalization is not a democratic value. | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 4836 Registered: 9-2001 |
"Surely you understand what your party stands for by now..." If we were all to vote based on everything our parties stand for, I'm afraid few of us would even bother to vote... | ||
| Robert Livingston Citizen Username: Rob_livingston Post Number: 1690 Registered: 7-2004 |
Okay, fair enough, Art. In fact, I'd wager most people don't know what the democrats stand for because even the DNC doesn't know... | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 884 Registered: 10-2004 |
Art - it still goes back to my original statement. What is your priority? If tax cuts and less aid to the disadvantaged and neediest are your highest priority then republican is certainly your best bet. However if that is your highest priority and you are pro-choice, just be aware that your vote is an anti choice vote. I am not saying that you shouldnt vote republican anyway, just that you should realize that voting this way also means voting anti womens choice. | ||
| The SLK Effect Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1020 Registered: 10-2005 |
Alleygater: Funny, I thought most Democrats were "against abortion" too, you know the "safe, legal, and rare" mantra? You are really making me wonder... RL, only Republicans have an anti-gay agenda? Who signed DOMA into law? Pro-War? There are just as many (if not more) Republicans against the Iraq war then there are for it. And in the 20th century there were just as many Democratic Presidents engaging in military action as Republicans. And can you give us some "anti-environment" gigs the Republicans are against? I am not saying there are not any, but those who make such a statement never seem to have specific examples. I know one thing for sure. Some of you really over generalize on this topic, it is scary. So since this is the norm, not only are all African Americans criminals but they are also crackheads.... -SLK | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 886 Registered: 10-2004 |
SLK - you are the scary one. If there were more republicans against the war then how is there a war now? Seems to me that the republican platform is very hawkish. Are you saying that there were many voting against their self interests? I am quite sure Alley is not recommending abortion as something that should be done without thinking, plannning, caring etc. I am quite sure that no women is having sex with the goal of abortion. And I am quite sure that Alley is thinking that abortion is the last resort. But what is really the issue is that the last resort remains legal and available to those in need. I dont think you need to be bigotted to get your point across but you are not making many friends with comments like that. | ||
| Robert Livingston Citizen Username: Rob_livingston Post Number: 1694 Registered: 7-2004 |
Scrotis: I don't think it's necessary to bandy about overtly racist remarks in response to some truths about the GOP. You've been tossing those bigotted comments around here a little too casually. | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 2527 Registered: 5-2004 |
Hoops - you wrote "Rastro - that indeed might be a dilemma, however the issue is not one that could cause you not to vote democratic since there is no official platform that democrats support or do not support capital punishment. " which is why I said "(pick your own mutually esclusive issues) " There are asome thing the Democrats stand for, right? Other than abortion rights? What if the candidates had opposing views on both, but neither candidate was fully consistent with your beliefs? | ||
| MBJ Citizen Username: Mbj Post Number: 180 Registered: 10-2005 |
"REPUBLICANS ARE THE MOST SELFISH AND GREEDY HUMAN BEINGS ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH!!!!" More shrill nonsense. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 888 Registered: 10-2004 |
Your right of course. Thats why I say what are your priorities? People who vote republican must be more in need of tax breaks for the rich and war with Iraq, corporate tax breaks and/or anti abortion. There are probably many one issue voters out there and thats fine but weighing what is important personally to you against what is less important is how I pick the candidate that I vote for. I dont have to believe in 100% of the things a candidate believes in but I will not vote for a candidate who does not believe in most of the things I think are important. | ||
| The SLK Effect Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1024 Registered: 10-2005 |
Oh, we are friends on these boards? LOL Regardless of what RL thinks, I don't consider my self to be a racist. And yes to answer your question from another board, I am being off the wall sarcastic by making such remarks. I am just trying to prove a point by making such absurd statements. Those of you who I am making uncomfortable with my "overtly racist remarks" seem to be overlooking what I say before making such remarks. The sterotyping/pigenholing/generalizing done on this board is grotesque. For Alleygater to continue his "letter to my Republican neighbor" screed by implying all Republicans are hatemongers and against abortion and pro-death penalty is just as ignorant as I saying all AAs are criminals and crackheads. I don't know what planet you guys are on but I met many Republicans who were pro-choice and many Democrats who were pro-life. I met many Dems who were for the death penalty and many Repubs who were against it. Conservative writers George Will and William Buckley call Iraq a failure and want us out and liberal Christopher Hitchens sees the point of continuing the fight... To neatly place everyone in a nice little package based on their political voting history is equally ignorant. Oh and by the way, I did show this thread to my African American wife who agrees that the generalizations on these boards are ridiculous. I guess I better go tell her she is married to a racist... -SLK Oh and RL, thanks for taking my quote from this board completely out of context on the "Kerouac Wannabe" board, you snake....  I told my wife and she says "that's ok, you are the cutest, nicest racist I have ever met..."  | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 889 Registered: 10-2004 |
Really? A much more appropriate test would be for you to show her the threads without letting her know that which poster you are. Her response might just be different. | ||
| Robert Livingston Citizen Username: Rob_livingston Post Number: 1697 Registered: 7-2004 |
Isn't it interesting how Scrotis gets labelled a homophobe and suddenly has a "gay brother." Gets called out for his racist remarks and all of a sudden he brings up his "African American wife." I'm jusy saying, it's interesting is all... | ||
| The SLK Effect Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1028 Registered: 10-2005 |
Yes RL because I am a "Republican" and all Republicans are liars.... Do you want me to send you pictures? Maybe my brother can offer something kinky you and your wife can get into... thanks for illustrating my point.... -SLK | ||
| The SLK Effect Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1031 Registered: 10-2005 |
Hey RL, Just got off the phone with my make believe gay brother. He says he'll have his make believe gay boyfriend start snapping polaroids so you and your wife have something to look forward to this weekend. Do you an address I can send them too? Unfortunately my make believe black wife says no to any pictures. She is a private person. But she did say your wife should kick you out of the house for even jokingly mentioning her sexual desires on an internet board....what have you no class she asks? -SLK | ||
| AlleyGater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 1270 Registered: 10-2004 |
SLK, Who ever said I feel that way personally? BUT I definitely am more in line with that position than I am with the Republican position. Bottom line would be that the Dems aren't making it their goal to eliminate and criminalize it. The Republicans have a horrible track record when it comes to our environment. They are more than happy to allow drilling in the Alaska (even if it means overturning existing legislation that doesn't allow them to currently do so), wants to promote more nuclear energy, cares very little about alternate forms of energy (until gas and energy prices sky-rocket and they look bad so they make a hollow reaction and pretend that they care), they happily and permanently sell off hundreds of thousands of national forest lands to loggers rather than raise taxes for rural schools and county roads. There are plenty of more attrocities (much worse than these) but I am sick of doing the research that you HONESTLY couldn't care less about. A simple Google search will find you plenty of evidence. But what good will it do? I think we have already figured out that you guys weigh your issues when it comes time to vote and Abortion Rights and the Environment come in far below more important issues (like tax breaks) for you. | ||
| CageyD Citizen Username: Cageyd Post Number: 641 Registered: 6-2003 |
mbj regarding my comment about republicans being the most selfish and greedy people on earth - PROVE ME WRONG! Tick, tick, tick.... |
