| Author | Message | ||
     Strawberry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 7483 Registered: 10-2001 |
July 6, 2006 Dear Concerned (Voter), As you may know, the state of New Jersey is in the midst of a budget crisis that has led to a total government shutdown. This crisis in New Jersey underscores the significance of every state's fiscal policies and the potential harm those policies can have on us all when they are mismanaged, regardless of geographic location or status as a "red" or "blue" state. A major contrast exists between Florida's approach to money management and New Jersey's, and this has been made so very clear by the events of the past few days. In a nutshell, the Democrat-led Legislature and Democrat Governor are facing a $4.5 billion deficit and are locked in a stalemate over whether or not to increase the state sales tax from 6% to 7% to pay for this deficit, essentially holding the people of New Jersey hostage to their infighting. To date, over 45,000 state employees have been furloughed, while many others are working without pay. To illustrate the disruption, the lockdown of one industry alone has resulted in a loss of approximately $1.3 million in tax revenue a day, dollars that are specifically earmarked for senior citizens and people with disabilities. Moreover, New Jersey enjoys a brisk tourism industry, and the closing of state parks and beaches will have an unknown but certainly adverse effect on the state's bottom line. To put it in perspective, tourism is Florida's largest industry-can you imagine the consequences should our state take such a financial hit? A Tale of Two States: Florida/ New Jersey No Income Tax/ Up to 6.4% Income Tax 6% Sales Tax/ Raising Sales Tax rate to 7% Hurricane Preparedness and NO Sales Tax Holidays Back-to-School Tax Holidays $6.4 Billion in RESERVES/ $4.5 Billion in DEFICIT How can two states be so far apart in their economic health? The answer is simple: Governor Bush and Florida's Republican-led Legislature have embraced conservative fiscal management policies, worked to return tax dollars to the people, and focused on growing jobs and diversifying the economy. We have passed sales tax holidays to help families shop for back-to-school items and hurricane preparedness items. As Governor Bush has said, "When it comes to taxes, less is really more," so our Republican leadership has been able to cut $15 billion in taxes since 1999. During that time, state revenues have grown by 51%, the state has consistently been a leader in the number of new jobs created and, just as importantly, our financial reserves have increased by approximately 530%. Ultimately, Florida and New Jersey couldn't be further apart, and the picture couldn't be clearer: Republican fiscal policies in Florida have been enormously successful, while big government, tax-and-spend Democrats have ground the state of New Jersey to a halt. The stakes are high and the choices are clear: continue sound Republican fiscal leadership or bring in New Jersey-style Democrat policies that lead to big government and higher taxes...while obviously failing to solve any critical problems. | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3620 Registered: 3-2004  |
Because of taxphobic citizens like you, Straw, the State of New Jersey could not reach a budget agreeement. Democrats who have constituents who are tax phobic, who were delusional for years, thinking they could go ahead and pay for all the services and systems of the state without raising taxes also delayed the deal. Finally, a strong, determined and courageous Governor, who doesn't rely on his salary the way others in the Statehouse do, was able to stand up to those same taxphobes. He was able to tell them that they had a moral obligation to balance the budget. You have obviously never been responsible for paying bills. You can't pay bills unless you raise money to pay them. It just doesn't work. At least, Corzine stood up to the pressures of the run-of-the-mill antitax citizenry, and woke them up. At least there was a reasonable deal struck, or perhaps you haven't gotten over your jet lag, and you haven't heard the latest news. | ||
| bettyd Citizen Username: Badjtdso Post Number: 265 Registered: 12-2005 |
All those who think things are better in Florida are free to relocate there. | ||
| Strawberry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 7484 Registered: 10-2001 |
Most of us already have a second or third home there. | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 5238 Registered: 5-2001 |
Florida's budget is more than twice New Jersey's. Where do you suppose they're getting the revenue from? (Hint: It's taxes, just not income taxes). | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3621 Registered: 3-2004 |
So go ahead, and have your first home there. You have wealth, yet you can't share a fraction of it. | ||
| notehead Supporter Username: Notehead Post Number: 3538 Registered: 5-2001  |
Ah, Florida, where Haitians go to live, and Jews go to die. I lived in Miami for five years, and I think Florida sucks. There are few states where the lesson "money can't buy class" is more apparent. That's, of course, in the incredibly overdeveloped areas where the money has been spent. Conspicuous consumption is the sport of choice; it's disgusting. South Beach is possibly the only spot on Earth where people are even shallower than in Los Angeles. I had a friend in the Miami government, and I assure you that their city and state governments are every bit as corrupt as we have in NJ. I've rarely seen racism as potent as that of Cubans in Hialeah against white people, but the racism of whites against blacks and blacks against Haitians is comparable. Meanwhile, look at most of the rest of the state and you're basically looking at Alabama. Drugs everywhere, guns everywhere, a proud celebration of the right to be ignorant. Everybody is out to rip everybody else off. Builders gleefully build huge, ugly communities of substandard structures that are totally destroyed by storms while older buildings go undamaged. Developers cozy up to the politicians and build everywhere without the slightest consideration of basic things like traffic flow, resource availability, environmental impact, etc. People get baby exotic pets and then release them into the Glades... they are literally infested with massive snakes from around the world in designer color patterns. And of course, there's the well-documented manipulation of the vote, which is a perfect example of how the Florida government likes to do things. Man, I hate Florida. | ||
| Nohero Supporter Username: Nohero Post Number: 5582 Registered: 10-1999  |
I don't think you have to bash Florida, to point out that the comparison that starts this thread is missing a few facts. For example, Florida's sales tax applies to more stuff, than NJ's sales tax. Florida has a "back to school shopping" tax holiday, but that's because clothing is not exempt from sales tax there, as it is in NJ. Gas taxes are much higher in Florida, than in NJ. Florida collects more per capita in real estate transfer taxes. Florida's state excise taxes on wine, beer and liquor are higher than NJ. Taxes on smokes are lower, though, so "choose your poison", as they say. This doesn't even take into consideration any difference in local taxes. For example, Florida has local sales taxes, NJ does not. The point is, without looking at the "total tax burden", for similarly-situated households, it is hard to make a comparison. | ||
| Strawberry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 7486 Registered: 10-2001 |
Interesting points Nohero but it still doesn't expain this. Florida $6.4 Billion in RESERVES NJ $4.5 Billion in DEFICIT | ||
| Nohero Supporter Username: Nohero Post Number: 5585 Registered: 10-1999 |
So, they overcollected on their broader sales tax and higher excise taxes? Maybe I'm misunderstanding you ... | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 5241 Registered: 5-2001 |
 | ||
| Strawberry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 7489 Registered: 10-2001 |
I see, so Florida's surplus doesn't really exist and NJ's deficit doesn't really exist either.. Nice attempt at spin. No reason to let facts get in your way. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave  Post Number: 10061 Registered: 4-1997  |
I think Nohero is (correctly) asking something along the lines of, why is the surplus not in taxpayer's savings accounts rather than government coffers? | ||
| Foj Citizen Username: Foger Post Number: 1626 Registered: 9-2004 |
I dont recall a Gov. Whitman of Florida, that might explain a bit. | ||
| Strawberry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 7492 Registered: 10-2001 |
That's not what Nohero said. He attempted to explain why Florida is healthy under Republicans as NJ dies under Dems. In no way did his post offer facts or explanations. He also certainly in no way attempted to discredit the state of Florida for building a surplus. Instead he attempted to give us the impression Florida's tax system is a scam. Nohero simply lied to cover his party's inability to run his state properly. His post is a sad commentary on the state of the Democratic party. Excuses, lies and more excuses. Sad really. | ||
| notehead Supporter Username: Notehead Post Number: 3539 Registered: 5-2001 |
I had been hoping that Straw was away taking a reading comprehension course. Alas.  | ||
| Strawberry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 7493 Registered: 10-2001 |
wow, impressive comments from a pothead. | ||
| Spinal Tap Citizen Username: Spinaltap11 Post Number: 24 Registered: 5-2006  |
NJ: http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/topic/44.html FL: http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/topic/21.html | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 927 Registered: 4-2006 |
First off, you have some unpalatable choices due to past democratic (McGreevey) and republican (Whitman) administrations. A sales tax on goods hurts low income earners, doing a Louie Manzo and adding a "junior millionaire" tax on people making 200-500k pushes people and business that you need out of the state. A real solution might be getting rid of a certain number of state workers. But they are democratic voters and taxpayers as well. This year Corzine didn't fix the problem, he just put some masking tape around the edges. He also gave his party a real big hosing by increasing spending 10% which is going to come back to haunt them next year considering other democratic states have cut spending. When the proverbial sh#@ hits the fan with the 2007 budget is when Jon Corzine is going to be really tested. He is going to have to spread some serious tax pain to core democratic constituencies and cut programs and spending. And he has made some significant enemies with the budget battle this year. My sense is that next year things are going to be a lot worse than what we have just had with the government closure. | ||
| Dr. Winston O'Boogie Citizen Username: Casey Post Number: 2220 Registered: 8-2003  |
2005 per capita income: NJ: $43,771 FL: $33,219 Source: U.S. Department of Commerce, Bureau of Economic Analysis, Survey of Current Business. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104652.html | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 12068 Registered: 5-2001 |
It sure helps that Florida receives back from the Feds about $1.02 for every tax dollar sent to Washington. In New Jersey we receive back about 55 cents per dollar sent to the Bush Administration. Also, while we pay for it through the nose, NJ education results are among the best in the country, while Florida's test scores are among the worst. | ||
| Innisowen Citizen Username: Innisowen Post Number: 2095 Registered: 3-2004 |
From same source as O'Boogie used: percent of people in poverty, by state, 2002-2004 Florida: 12.2 percent NJ: 8.3% percent of Americans without health insurance, 2003-2004 Florida: 19% NJ: 14.3% Divorce rates by state, 1990-2004 Florida: 4.8% NJ: 3% Healthiest states 2005 (defined by outcomes and availability of medical care) New Jersey: number 16 out of 50 Florida:number 44 out of 50 Violent crime incidents per 100,000 inhabitants, 2004 Florida: 711.3 NJ: 355.7 | ||
| Innisowen Citizen Username: Innisowen Post Number: 2096 Registered: 3-2004 |
Yup: Sure looks as though Florida is the place to be, if you don't mind being murdered, unhealthy, or uneducated. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1621 Registered: 10-2004  |
I'll take New Jersey over Florida any day. Its just too hot and humid in Florida. (Plus what Innisowen said). | ||
| Twokitties Citizen Username: Twokitties Post Number: 453 Registered: 8-2004 |
Straw: You are looking more and more ridiculous by the minute. Well done. It suits you. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 12069 Registered: 5-2001 |
But they have a surplus!!!  | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 5242 Registered: 5-2001 |
Clinton had a surplus. Bush has a deficit. Budgetary that is. What does that tell you? Well, he has that other deficit too, but that's off-topic. | ||
| Dr. Winston O'Boogie Citizen Username: Casey Post Number: 2221 Registered: 8-2003 |
anyone who thinks NJ is a terrible place to live won't be persuaded by data. I kind of feel sorry for people who feel "trapped" here because their jobs are here. when you guys retire, I'm sure you'll all be on the first plane to FL or AZ. if that makes you happy, good luck. for me, I've been to Florida many, many times and I'll take NJ any day. | ||
| Innisowen Citizen Username: Innisowen Post Number: 2097 Registered: 3-2004 |
Straw likes the fact that Florida has a Republican administration, which he is comfortable with. Those other details that several of us have mentioned don't mean a damn thing to him. They're merely quality of life issues that affect others, not good ol' Strawberry. And they certainly don't affect Florida's Republican administration. | ||
| Oregon gal Citizen Username: Oregon_gal Post Number: 55 Registered: 6-2006  |
Stawberry - why aren't you pissed off by W's deficit? What's the difference? He inherited a budget surplus. Please explain. | ||
| Strawberry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 7495 Registered: 10-2001 |
This thread has nothing to do with the Federal Gov't. This compares Florida and NJ. Apples and oranges, sweetheart. | ||
| Oregon gal Citizen Username: Oregon_gal Post Number: 58 Registered: 6-2006 |
Thanks honey. | ||
| Scully Citizen Username: Scully Post Number: 723 Registered: 8-2005 |
Meaning you can't answer Oregon gal's question... | ||
| Strawberry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 7496 Registered: 10-2001 |
meaning shutup, it's a stupid question. NJ is one of the states that has so far refused to call for a constitional amemdment requiring a balanced fed. budget. I support a convention in order to do so..That should partially answer whatever it is you two seem to be fishing for. | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 5244 Registered: 5-2001 |
Oh please. If Republicans want to balance the Federal budget, what's stopping them? | ||
| Innisowen Citizen Username: Innisowen Post Number: 2098 Registered: 3-2004 |
Another misrepresentation by Strawberry: giving the impression that NJ has been a stick in the mud about balancing the fed budget. In fact, his own Republican party gave the balanced budget issue NO TRACTION in the 2004 election: his party was too busy spending money as though it were going out of style. The most recent focus on balanced fed budgets was due to President Clinton and before him Ross Perot. But then there's always the stellar example of Florida, as many of us have noted above. | ||
| Oregon gal Citizen Username: Oregon_gal Post Number: 59 Registered: 6-2006 |
"meaning shutup, it's a stupid question." Strawberry - have you considered interviewing at Fox? You'd be a perfect fit! When in doubt, insult. | ||
| Madden 11 Citizen Username: Madden_11 Post Number: 965 Registered: 12-2003 |
When in doubt, insult. That would certainly explain the frequency of the insults. | ||
| Spinal Tap Citizen Username: Spinaltap11 Post Number: 26 Registered: 5-2006 |
I agree that the Republicans have no one to blame for the mess that is the federal budget but themselves. Their spending has outstripped Speaker Tip O'Neill's wildest fantasies. Unfortunately, the Republicans have yet to propose any spending that the Democrats would not like to add a zero to. And the reason the budget was balanced had nothing to do with President Clinton and certainly not Ross Perot. It was because the Republicans won in 1994. If not for that, a balanced budget would never have come up for discussion. The end of the Cold War didn’t hurt either. Unfortunately, the Republicans have betrayed the ideals that got them elected in 1994. | ||
| Strawberry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 7504 Registered: 10-2001 |
zzzzzzzz |
