| Author | Message | ||
     tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3732 Registered: 3-2004  |
A formal, strong statement was just made by the G-8 demanding that Israel cease fire, soldiers be returned. What do you think? | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3733 Registered: 3-2004 |
Sorry, I meant "calls." | ||
| Strawberry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 7546 Registered: 10-2001  |
The soldiers are not being returned and Israel will continue defending itself. | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3734 Registered: 3-2004 |
Defending itself out of existence. | ||
| Strawberry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 7547 Registered: 10-2001 |
You'd love to see that happen. | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3735 Registered: 3-2004 |
They all urge restraint. What would I love to see? I'd love to see Israel, and you, for that matter, learn how to be a grown-up. You don't belong, and Israel doesn't belong in the Middle East, if you all can't get along with your neighbors. | ||
| Strawberry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 7548 Registered: 10-2001 |
holy stupidity | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider  Post Number: 15065 Registered: 1-2003  |
That is pretty darned bigoted, tulip. It's no one's place to say someone doesn't belong in his/her home. Israel is home for Israelis. It's also home to Palestinians, so I hope they get their own state, too, but I don't think anyone should be wholly moved out. | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3736 Registered: 3-2004 |
It's pretty damned bigotted to kill Lebanese who have done nothing wrong. Mr. REingold, You say you don't like war, you don't like the invasion of Iraq, yet you apparently approve of this Israeli invasion of Lebanon. It woudn't be an invasion if they were going after Hezbollah, as they say they are. They are destroying a sovereign nation. That's pretty damned bigotted. | ||
| Nancy - LibraryLady Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 3673 Registered: 5-2001  |
It's pretty damn bigoted to kill Israelis who have done nothing wrong and even more bigoted to call for Isreal's ahnililation and extermination. | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 713 Registered: 1-2006 |
No bigots there. Many with relatives killed in terror attacks on restaurants, pizzerias, beaches, public schools, buses, highways, border crossings, airplanes, barracks, airports, flower shops, falafel stands, and the list goes on. Just self-defense by Israel, in place of the self-neutered Lebanese government, which abdicated its responsibility to govern itself, and allowed a murderous Muslim group to arm, take control over the Southern part of the country, import rockets, weapons and Iranians, then attack across an internationally recognized border, (causis belli) knowing that it could look forward to the hate Israel firsters, still unsatisfied that those pesky Jews exist despite WWII and the concentration camps, to defend them. Please, Tulip, go there, don a Burkha and fight Israel. jd | ||
| anon Supporter Username: Anon Post Number: 2859 Registered: 6-2002 |
Since the Arabs cannot get along with their neighbors, the Israelis, I guess they don't belong in the Middle East. Since the Iranians can't get along with their neigbors, the Arabs (Iran-Iraq War)they do not belong in the Middle East. Since the Indians and Pakistanis can't get along, the don't belong in South Asia. Where should they all go? And Tulip, since you can't get along with just about anyone else on MOL, do you belong here? | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 714 Registered: 1-2006 |
Bananastan? jd | ||
| Strawberry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 7549 Registered: 10-2001 |
Ironic that Tulip has spent the years crying about Saddam's removal. Afterall he wasn't able to get along with his neighbors. I guess her point is it's really not about getting along. It's about getting rid of the Jews. | ||
| Wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 2756 Registered: 5-2001 |
When Tom Reingold tells you in no uncertain terms that you are saying bigoted things, you'd better look honestly within yourself. When smart people who are Democrats and mostly liberal (not to say Tom isn't smart and liberal) like anon and library lady provide further evidence of this and call you on your inconsistencies, you'd better look honestly with yourself. When everyone including Beirut wants you out of MOL and suggests you go forth and spew elsewhere, perhaps you ought to listen. Long live Israel and a lasting peace. I know Israel is trying. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 15066 Registered: 1-2003 |
Deploring others' actions doesn't justify your own. Yes, the Arabs are bigoted, maybe even more than the Israelis. I'm not even saying who's wronger. I'm just saying that the country should be disbanned is bigoted. Citing other bigotry doesn't take away the bigotry of your suggestion. | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3737 Registered: 3-2004 |
OK, Now a Lebanese Canadian family has been killed. Feel good? This is not the way to get your point across, whether you like me or not!!! I deplore Israel's behavior, and apparently, the G-8 doesn't love it either. GET IT????? Library Lady: You like thinking I am calling for Israel's annihilation, don't you? Hey, have it your way, but that's not what I am saying. I guess I have to keep saying it until you read it, and get it. Israel should not stay in the Middle East if it's constantly embattled. It's silly to keep trying to survive somewhere where everyone wants you gone. Witness how I keep trying to explain myself on this BOARD, and no one listens. Well, no one in the Middle East is listening to Israel right now, so they should take care of themselves, and either calm down, or leave. Not be annihilated. Nazi tactics have new advocates these days. I can criticize and hate Israeli tactics. If you can't stand that, there is not a democratic bone in your body, and you are nothing more than a extension of a fascistic tendency in Israeli politics. As a descendent of Jews, I for one would like Israel to get over its persecution complex and move on. | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 1689 Registered: 3-2002 |
Tulip, your outrage seems strangely one-sided. And yes, anti-Jewish, whatever your ancestry. Your logic about leaving if you aren't wanted could have applied to essentially every minority in American history, not to mention quite a few in America today. | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3739 Registered: 3-2004 |
susan I am the only one to say that Israel has just made the biggest mistake of its short history. This is not Israel defending itself, it is Israel mired in a battle it cannot win. It has lost the moral battle, and now, somewhat Biblically, as it has lost its moral way, it will lose its territory and its very existence, and not because of anything I am saying. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 15069 Registered: 1-2003 |
You may be right about Israel's recent actions, but you are wrong about saying Israel shouldn't be there, as we have pointed out. | ||
| Wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 2757 Registered: 5-2001 |
of course you're not the only one saying it. There are other bigots and Jew haters in the world and always have been. It's just become a bit easier to couch the real feelings. Where was your outrage with the suicide bombings? With the school kids in Israel bombed on buses? With those too poor for cars, hoping to find bicycles to ride rather than get on buses. Puhleeze. Israel has not even come close to looking immoral but the islamic muslims certainly have. | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3740 Registered: 3-2004 |
It will not be up to me whether Israel stays or goes. Israel is carving its own epitaph as we write. Israel has lost its moral gravitas, just as Bush has lost his, in the eyes of the world. Wendy, my love, my dear, if being against murder means being a Jew-hater, so be it. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 15070 Registered: 1-2003 |
It's good to be against murder. In my view, your hateful statement is the one that says Israel has no right to exist. It's fair to criticize its actions. It's not fair to say it shouldn't exist. I guess I'm repeating myself, and I'm amazed it's not clear enough to you yet. Am I not speaking plainly? | ||
| anon Supporter Username: Anon Post Number: 2860 Registered: 6-2002 |
Tulip: You said that Israel should not stay in the middle east. You said they should "go back to Brooklyn." That may not be "annihilation" in your view, but where do you want an entire nation to go? Most Jews believe, rightly or wrongly, that the end of Israel will lead to world-wide persecution of Jews, and view Israel as a refuge in the event of a future holocaust. Given a millenium of persecution and murder do Jews not have a right to be paranoid? You say I for one would like Israel to get over its persecution complex and move on. Perhaps when there are no nations, governments and large scale organizations advocating Israel's destruction, maybe then. But there are still people walking the earth with numbers tatooed on their arms. Maybe when they and their children and grandchildren are no longer here, Jews will overcome our persecution complex. But then maybe that would not be a good idea even then. I'll tell you what. How about if we Jews agree to give up our persecution complex after 1000 years without any persecution? Fair? | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3741 Registered: 3-2004 |
Tom, I didn't say Israel HAD NO RIGHT to exist. I said it has lost its moral way. Do you understand that? I said, it is creating a climate in which IT CAN'T GO ON and survive. After all, isn't survival the real purpose? Or do we have to see a modern day Massada? Tom, I think you and Wendy, susan and Larry are upset by what Israel is doing. I think you are seriously concerned when you see pictures of old women, babies and children all bloody and suffering, or dead, as a result of Israeli bombing. I think this level of concern on your part is making it hard for you to understand what I am writing. I am writing that Israel is committing moral, and possibly territorial suicide right now. I am not talking about whether it has a right to exist or not. I said it should get along with its neighbors for its own good. Can you understand that? | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3742 Registered: 3-2004 |
Most Jews believe, rightly or wrongly, that the end of Israel will lead to world-wide persecution of Jews, and view Israel as a refuge in the event of a future holocaust. Given a millenium of persecution and murder do Jews not have a right to be paranoid? Anon, it may interest you to know that my relatives suffered severely in the Holocaust, which is why I think it's time to stop acting like oppressors. No, I don't think the end of Israel will lead to world-wide persecution. I have conducted my life with both Jews and non-Jews, and I have noticed that those Jews, as with those Muslims, African-Americans, Catholics or whoever, exclude friendships, relationships or understanding toward others because they are not part of their own "kind" they are generally unpleasant as individuals. I find that most of the time, if I don't run around screaming about my being of Jewish background, blaming people for the Holocaust, beating people up who had nothing to do with it, I can generally get along with almost everyone. If I were to cry about the Holocaust forever, or blame everyone for it, I would not be able to survive. I think Israel, and Jews, overdo their misery, and it definitely doesn't endear them to the rest of the world. I think the Holocaust was horrible, but apparently, it is being recreated in Lebanon. Just because we went through it, doesn't mean we have to put everyone else through it.  | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 15071 Registered: 1-2003 |
tulip, your backpedaling doesn't work with me. You said Israel doesn't belong there. I don't care what conditions you put on belonging. No nation, even a bad one, can be judged as not belonging. You made a judgement on the value of a country. It is entirely unfitting, and backpedaling is not adequate. You ought to retract your statement. Note, I am not making a value statement on Israel's recent actions. I am speaking of its right to exist. All nations have a right to exist. Some ought to learn to act better. Rather, all of them ought to. You absolutely did make a statement about the right to exist. I'm not stupid enough for you to make me believe you didn't. Please don't try to reinterpret your words. Just retract them. Don't retract your feelings about Israel's recent actions, just your statement about Israel's right to exist. | ||
| sbenois Supporter Username: Sbenois Post Number: 15339 Registered: 10-2001  |
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| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3743 Registered: 3-2004 |
Right. Not Jews, Israel. Murdering babies. | ||
| J. Crohn Supporter Username: Jcrohn Post Number: 2555 Registered: 3-2003 |
"I think the Holocaust was horrible, but apparently, it is being recreated in Lebanon." Really, Tulip? You detect no differences? | ||
| anon Supporter Username: Anon Post Number: 2861 Registered: 6-2002 |
One cannot "overdue" the misery of the Holocaust or over-react to it. It wasn't so very long ago, Those who fail to learn the lessons of History are doomed to repeat its mistakes. Whatever is happening in Lebanon, it is not genocide and it is not a Holocaust. There are no death camps. There are no cremetoria. There is no mass murder as in Rwanda. There is no "ethnic cleansing" as in Bosnia. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 15072 Registered: 1-2003 |
Killing innocent people is wrong, but making an analogy to the holocaust cheapens the experience of those who went through the holocaust. | ||
| Spinal Tap Citizen Username: Spinaltap11 Post Number: 67 Registered: 5-2006  |
For Tulip - "War is an ugly thing, but it is not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares about more than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made so by the exertions of better men than himself." — John Stuart Mill | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3744 Registered: 3-2004 |
It doesn't matter if you are murdered in a crematorium or in a building that is crashing down on your head. Israel should cease fire. | ||
| anon Supporter Username: Anon Post Number: 2863 Registered: 6-2002 |
IMHO all of us should "cease" arguing with Tulip. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 15074 Registered: 1-2003 |
I'm with anon. I've said my "peace." Everyone else, please "join out." | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3745 Registered: 3-2004 |
In my opinion, you should stop thinking Jews have a corner on suffering. | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3746 Registered: 3-2004 |
J. Crohn, if that were your family killed by an Israeli bomb, would you be analyzing the difference between that and the Holocaust? Do you ALL believe this invasion is justified? Will you ALL go on record saying you agree with Israel's strategy here? Let's hear you. I dare you to come forward and tell me why Israel is justified in murdering babies.... Don't argue with me. You might end up embarrassed. | ||
| Wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 2758 Registered: 5-2001 |
Oh lovely. Ethnic cleansing and defending oneself is the same. More idiotic drivel. I think I need to stop listening. tulip may want to spit on Israel. I'm about to vomit after listening to her. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 15075 Registered: 1-2003 |
How 'bout them Mets! |
