| Author | Message | ||
     Wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 2964 Registered: 5-2001 |
Yes you all out there. We supposedly own MOL according to Straw and FvF. Now I really need to know something really important vis Israel. If you consider yourself a liberal - and that at least has to mean you did not vote for Bush either time (my thread-my definition) - but are not Jewish by blood or choice do you totally support the right of Israel to exist and defend itself? You can have issues with certain things, heck even Israelis do, such as the fence, settlements, prisoner exchanges. But please let me hear from you on this thread. I really hope I can count the number of you responding with a simple Yes on more than my two hands. Thanks in advance. | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 5489 Registered: 5-2001 |
Yes. | ||
| Strawberry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 7696 Registered: 10-2001 |
The majority of liberals think Israel is a terror state. | ||
| tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 4682 Registered: 12-2001  |
I hate the term liberal and conservative as the meanings are twisted so far out of shape from what they once meant. But, to your boldface question, yes. | ||
| Project 37 Citizen Username: Project37 Post Number: 240 Registered: 3-2006  |
Show your work, please. | ||
| anon Supporter Username: Anon Post Number: 2992 Registered: 6-2002 |
Wendy: I have a friend who lives in Maplewood and used to post on MOL but became fed up with it. He is active in the Democratic Party. fairly liberal, has little use for GWB, and is a devout Roman Catholic. His position on Israel and the Arabs is closer to that of Bibi Netanyahu than to yours or mine! | ||
| anon Supporter Username: Anon Post Number: 2993 Registered: 6-2002 |
Classic anti-semites believe the majority of liberals are Jewish. | ||
| Strawberry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 7697 Registered: 10-2001 |
Show my work? How about the biggest MOL lib of them all, Kathleen. "I suppose pointing out that Hizbullah is not Hitler, and that the democratic state in the Middle East that today is at risk of elimination is not Israel but Lebanon, would just fall on uncomprehending ears." | ||
| Nohero Supporter Username: Nohero Post Number: 5721 Registered: 10-1999  |
I think we all support the right of Israel to exist and defend itself. Actually, that's kind of a clinical way to put it. So, let's put it this way - I think we all support the continued health, safety, and prosperity of the people of Israel. The disagreements that you see here, are about the best ways to ensure the continued health, safety, and prosperity of the Israelis. The folks who mouth simplistic slogans about "liberals", or whoever they want to argue about, are not helping to ensure the long-term survival of Israel. | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3869 Registered: 3-2004  |
Thanks, Nohero. | ||
| Wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 2968 Registered: 5-2001 |
Nohero, if I was concerned about the "the continued health, safety, and prosperity of the people of Israel[my emphasis]" I would have phrased it that way. I like my "clinical" way. With your way, the "people of Israel" could leave Israel and move to Brooklyn as a liberal suggested a while ago. In fact it was that type of attitude which while blatant got me thinking that perhaps that is sort of the thought of some other liberals who are not Jewish. So answer the question I posed please. Thanks. | ||
| Wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 2969 Registered: 5-2001 |
OK, two on line people and one friend of an on line person and a sort of yes but it needs to be clarified. Here's hoping that by the time the cease fire goes into effect, I will need more than one hand at least to count the yeses. | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3871 Registered: 3-2004 |
There will be no cease fire. | ||
| Wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 2970 Registered: 5-2001 |
You are not welcome in my thread. | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3872 Registered: 3-2004 |
Oh. You jumped into mine. | ||
| Wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 2971 Registered: 5-2001 |
Do I bother to explain to her the difference? Nah...... Now back to the question. Yes? No? | ||
| Nohero Supporter Username: Nohero Post Number: 5723 Registered: 10-1999 |
Wendy, I didn't know about that interpretation of your question. So, if I may rephrase my response, I think we all support the continued health, safety, and prosperity of the people of Israel right where they are, right now, as we speak, or type, or just sit here reading. If I missed something in my response, let me know. | ||
| Wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 2972 Registered: 5-2001 |
Now we have four. Thanks. No you didn't miss anything. But I don't agree that "we all support" Israel and thus my thread/poll. It really isn't rhetorical unlike other threads. In fact I think the DNC is probably playing close attention don't you think. (Oh and we should be out of Iraq too but that is just muddying the waters isn't it?  ) | ||
| Nohero Supporter Username: Nohero Post Number: 5726 Registered: 10-1999 |
No, it's not muddying the waters. It's pointing out that people who are trying to justify their bone-headed decisions, want to us Israel to blame for our Iraq mis-adventure. | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3874 Registered: 3-2004 |
So, you are constantly referring to something I said, and not wanting me to comment. Boy, I'm glad you are not the boss of me!!! Let me tell you a little something, ma'am. It just happens, that even if I thought that Israel should close up shop and move on, it still wouldn't be anti-semitism. I can be pro-semitism and not think Israel is conducting itself in such a way as to lengthen its own life in its current neighborhood. I do not think that God or anyone else tells people they have a right to be in any specific place, or are "chosen people." I do, however, and have, loved Jewish people, including my grandparents, my parents and my relatives. You and your chums can call me names til doomsday (which seems rather short at hand.) I think Israel has made a mess of this. Defending oneself should not include running into the neighbor's yard and throwing stones. So.... | ||
| Project 37 Citizen Username: Project37 Post Number: 241 Registered: 3-2006 |
I missed the memo that explained how the opinion of MOL poster Kathleen represented "the majority of liberals". I now have a better idea of how to interpret your future posts. Wendy, in response to your boldface question: Yes (reserving the right to "have issues with certain things"). | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 5490 Registered: 5-2001 |
While Hezbollah claims to want to wipe out Jews worldwide, there are probably a couple of guys in the woods of the upper peninsula of Michigan who say the same thing. But since neither has control of a large industrial economy, independent supplies of coal and iron, or a strong manufacturing base, they don't merit comparison with Hitler. Nazi Germany made messerschmidts, panzers, lugers, and all manner of artillery. There isn't a country in the Middle East outside of Israel that could make a ballpoint pen. | ||
| Wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 2974 Registered: 5-2001 |
thanks Project 37. Tulip I really don't have to call you names; nor have I. Your posts do it for themselves.
| ||
| pcs81632 Citizen Username: Pcs81632 Post Number: 109 Registered: 6-2002  |
Israel must defend itself. No Question. The US should be an impartial referee in the process, open to both sides. Isn't it oddly amusing, that everywhere we are in conflict in the world, the US is, basically, cleaning up the after effects of British Colonialism? Or am I incorrect? | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 5493 Registered: 5-2001 |
I think it's just coincidence at this point in history. Afghanistan is a byproduct of the mess that the USSR made of the place. George Bush wouldn't be able to find Iraq on the map if they didn't have large petroleum reserves. The problems vis a vis Israel would be the same if it were the Belgians or the French who had colonized that part of the world. | ||
| anon Supporter Username: Anon Post Number: 2995 Registered: 6-2002 |
Wendy, my friend, tulip is no liberal. Nohero is one of the best people who post on MOL. It is insulting to Christians who are also "liberals" to question whether they support the right of Israel to exist just because some nut-jobs don't. Wendy you're the gal who got Annette DePalma and Marie Stratuchuk to Daven together. Give the gentiles a break. Have a good week. | ||
| Wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 2978 Registered: 5-2001 |
Well anon, perhaps you have a point. But as they said in X-files do you believe they are out there? | ||
| Strawberry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 7698 Registered: 10-2001 |
I can see Project 37 needs more examples. Tulip another MOL lefty who bleeds liberal blue. "Debby, I'll try to explain my question one last time. After all, poor Joel Dranove is puking all over the place, and I wouldn't want to upset his family. I am asking why Judaism can support killing on the Sabbath. I thought orthodox Judaism, and conservatism, frowned upon any kind of physical work on the Sabbath. It seems that sitting at the UN and talking about peace is not physical labor. Just checking with my Jewish MOL poster friends, you know? Simple, unadorned question, that's all. What's the big deal? " Shall we continue or are you done? Plenty more to play with sonny boy. | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 5494 Registered: 5-2001 |
Well I suppose if there are only three liberals in the world, those two comprise a majority. But I think that you have several millions to go, and you ain't going to get there with anecdotes from MOL. | ||
| 3ringale Citizen Username: Threeringale Post Number: 346 Registered: 1-2006 |
I didn't vote for Bush either time, but I don't think I'm a liberal. I support the right of Israel to exist and defend itself. I do not support giving American tax dollars to Israel for any economic or military purposes. Israel has a per capita income of around $20,000, I think. But we give them $3 billion a year? For what? Armed neutrality is the historic American position. I prefer George Washington to George W. Bush. If Canada attacks Maine, we fight. If Castro attacks Florida, we fight. If Israel and Hezbollah want to duke it out, I don't want to be involved. Cheers | ||
| tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 4684 Registered: 12-2001 |
3ring, Isn't your position of armed neutrality really a dream left over from the days when we were completely self-sufficient as a nation and had no dependencies on foreign raw materials? | ||
| Project 37 Citizen Username: Project37 Post Number: 242 Registered: 3-2006 |
Wow, that's two whole people. It really is a staggering representation of the "majority of liberals" in regards to this topic. Case closed, I guess. There's no need for you to continue. The depth (and tone) of your response only underlines the value of any additional posts you might make on this thread. | ||
| sac Supporter Username: Sac Post Number: 3702 Registered: 5-2001 |
Lots more than three, particularly around here. (Maybe only about three in my old neighborhood in the bible belt.) I'm not Jewish. If I must be labeled politically, I'm sure that I fall in the liberal camp. I support Israel's right to exist and defend itself. That is entirely different from supporting every action and policy they undertake. Not so different re the USA, in fact. I also deeply resent the nasty connotations that have come to rest on the terms liberal and conservative. They are very inaccurate (in regards to the people being labeled as well as the semantics) and are rarely helpful in advancing social and political discourse. | ||
| Project 37 Citizen Username: Project37 Post Number: 243 Registered: 3-2006 |
I've noticed that some people strategically employ them in order to derail conversation and distract attention away from their own shaky platform. I resent that approach as well. | ||
| 3ringale Citizen Username: Threeringale Post Number: 348 Registered: 1-2006 |
tjohn, I don't think armed neutrality or isolationism is a dream, but it has been a long time since anyone in DC has taken it seriously. In the long run, I think it is the only approach that works. Fighting terrorism is like constructing the Maginot Line. There is always a way around your defenses. I'm all for fighting terrorism, if there is a real threat. Type "Operation Northwoods" into google and see what comes up. Immigration reform and a non-interventionist foreign policy would do more to fight terrorism than sending another 20 divisions to the Middle East. Cheers | ||
| Paul Surovell Supporter Username: Paulsurovell Post Number: 718 Registered: 2-2003 |
Wendy, Yes, Israel has an absolute right to exist and to defend itself, but what Israel did for the last 34 days had nothing to do with either. The Government's military action was a disaster for Israel which seriously undermined Israel's military deterrent and its national security. This was the obvious outcome from the first attack on the Beirut airport, which preceded Hezbollah's rockets. If one supports Israel's right to exist and its right to defend itself, it is incumbent upon you to speak out when its actions are subversive to those principles. The same is true for those who support America's right to exist and its right to defend itself. Here's an article from a trusted liberal source -- Seymour Hersh -- for liberals, conservatives and independents who want a reality-based understanding of the flawed thinking that was behind Israel's decision to bomb Lebanon. And yes, Hersh believes that Israel has an absolute right to exist and to defend itself: http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060821fa_fact | ||
| Nuff Sayid Citizen Username: Parkingsux Post Number: 480 Registered: 6-2005  |
I am a conservative, and a proud defender of Israel's right to exist. I stand with Israel against ignorance, hatred and terrorism. I'd prefer war wasn't necessary, but the right to protect its own citizens is the greatest obligation of any sovereign state. May the Love of G-d and peace be with you..  | ||
| ina Citizen Username: Ina Post Number: 390 Registered: 6-2001 |
Yes to Wendy's question. | ||
| Costanza Supporter Username: Vandalay Post Number: 1755 Registered: 8-2004  |
Looks like Dems already answered this question. A plurality of 46% say protecting Israel's right to exist is more important than securing an immediate ceasefire. Again, men (55%) and Republicans (62%) are more likely than women (37%) and Democrats (36%) to say protecting Israel should be the priority. http://www.rasmussenreports.com/2006/July%20Dailies/hezbollah.htm} | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 5497 Registered: 5-2001 |
Different question. An immediate ceasefire is not the opposite of Israel's right to exist and defend itself. You can be for one, the other, both, or neither. |
