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JerryC
Citizen
Username: Jerryc

Post Number: 230
Registered: 12-2002


Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 3:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was eating breakfast at Conway's Deli this morning and while reading the News Record was dismayed to find yet another front page article regarding a violent crime on SA. It seems that two people, a man and woman, hijacked a taxi at gunpoint and held the driver hostage for about 18 hours as they made him drive them around to various locations in East Orange and Newark.
As a Springfield Ave Parnership Board member, I am reluctant to discuss this here as it may be seen as counterproductive to our efforts. However, it is an issue that is ever present and in spite of all of the efforts to "beautify" the ave, this sort of stuff will continue to hamper any real lasting success. The incident occurred at the corner of SA and Oberlin, right across the street from Conway's and only about three blocks from where I live. In spite of all of the work I've done encouraging people to partronize the ave, I have to say that I myself have become more and more reluctant to consider being up there much, especially past dark. This incident should sound a VERY large alarm and resound with our police chief, our township committee and everyone else who really cares about this town. I know it is only one incident but it is a very scarey one. What if it had been a resident, stopped at a traffic light or getting into his/her car that night?
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Joan
Supporter
Username: Joancrystal

Post Number: 6939
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 4:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jerry:

I don't live much father from SA and Oberlin than you do (maybe an extra block or two at most) and I was also alarmed at what I read about the incident but it sounded very random with no real link to Maplewood or SA apart from that being where the incident began.

I honestly don't know what anyone can do to prevent such a random occurance, especially since there is no reason why a taxi driver wouldn't agree to pick up a fare when he didn't have another call to respond to.

I do think that a similar incident happening to a resident who just happened to be passing by could be discouraged by having more residents spending more time on SA than they do now. There truly is safety in numbers in this kind of situation.
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gtonne
Supporter
Username: Gtonne

Post Number: 91
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 7:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The most important link between this incident and Maplewood and Springfield Avenue IS where it began. Getting car jacked and kidnapped should not be an acceptable risk for spending time on Springfield Avenue. The cab driver refused the fare and that's when the gun was pulled, in broad daylight, on a Sunday in an area that's being promoted for families.

What can you do to prevent such a random occurrence happening to you? How about not living in an area sandwiched between Irvington and Vauxhall. In an area where the township government and police force are working hard, with strong community support, but having a very hard time trying to figure out how to deal with these types of problems. This is a lot more serious than someone's car being stolen from the Verjus parking lot or my neighborÕs car being stolen - twice.

And while incidents like this are random - location has a lot to do with it. Is something like this more likely to happen in the Montrose section of South Orange or Springfield Avenue?

This is another in a series of incidents to occur near my home that make me think long and hard about the risks of living in this area. I'm far from giving up on Maplewood as I love living here, but things like this do seriously concern me and I have to consider if I should raise my family here and hope that it gets better and not worse.
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harold
Citizen
Username: Harold

Post Number: 343
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 9:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

JerryC, I give you credit for posting this, but inadvertantly you are not doing Conway's a favor by explaining what happened as right across the street from his business......this could impact his business in the future.
[In other words, he doesn't need this type of advertizing].
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marie
Citizen
Username: Marie

Post Number: 1393
Registered: 6-2001
Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 10:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What happened to the October groundbreaking for the new police department?
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Haight-Strawbury
Supporter
Username: Strawberry

Post Number: 6675
Registered: 10-2001


Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 11:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Vic Deluca and David Humer blocked the construction of a police dept on SA. Never forget who you supported and who you support...THIS IS A CRITICAL TIME FOR SA...
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bottomline
Citizen
Username: Bottomline

Post Number: 368
Registered: 8-2003
Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 11:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OK, I’ve got a question: Has anybody validated the driver's story?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those in-denial types about crime in our community. I live quite near Springfield Avenue, and I'm on the Avenue a lot, but I have a very realistic attitude about the forces at work there.

However, this particular incident -- or alleged incident -- has got me wondering. This cat says his two kidnappers made him drive around Essex County for 18 hours. 18 hours! What were they doing all that time with respect to eating, sleeping, relieving themselves, etc? Did anyone report this guy and/or his taxi missing during that time? Did they drive or park anywhere that a security camera might have spotted them?

I’m not asserting outright that this didn’t happen, because I don’t know. I’m not saying it couldn’t have happened. And maybe the cops already know the answers to the questions I posed. But I am very curious.


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kathleen
Citizen
Username: Symbolic

Post Number: 444
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 12:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I recall that there was a carjacking on Ridgewood Road just a few years back. Property values have since gone up. It is not a good idea in Essex County to sit in your car eating lunch (as this livery driver was doing) or with the engine idling while someone else runs an errand (as is pointed out on the new police website).

I do not recall that David H. or Vic DecLuca did a single thing to block moving the police station from Dunnell Road to Springfield Ave. (or adjacent to it). Both were in favor of the relocation. That said, police do not patrol from inside a police station. They patrol in patrol cars and on foot all over town. The issue of "where is the police station?" is one of cost overruns, not beefing up a visible police deterrent on SA. Studies have shown police buildings and cameras do not deter crime. Visible police officers who work with business owners and residents do. If people want to deter crime on Springfield Ave. and around it, they need to ask for community policing, not merely a building or cameras.

Tom,

I think the story in the N-R said that the driver was never left alone, that the pair with the gun took turns leaving the car. (You can find the story on the web.)
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Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13

Post Number: 3680
Registered: 1-2004


Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 4:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How did the gas last for 18 hours?
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crabby
Citizen
Username: Crabbyappleton

Post Number: 437
Registered: 1-2004
Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 6:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I recall that there was a carjacking on Ridgewood Road just a few years back. Property values have since gone up."

You should not drink and post.
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Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk

Post Number: 10360
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 8:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is a link to the MPD website, although I didn't find a crime blotter section. http://www.maplewoodpd.org/

Were the alleged perps Malplewoodians or just passing through?
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eb1154
Citizen
Username: Eb1154

Post Number: 453
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 10:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oberlin St. meets SA at the BK not Conways.
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JerryC
Citizen
Username: Jerryc

Post Number: 232
Registered: 12-2002


Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 11:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know that, eb, but it is still across the street and not too far. THAT was my point, not the exact location.

As for the bad publicity for Conways, my apologies if that's what it appears. I'll still eat my breakfast there every Saturday morning. I love the Taylor Ham and egss, whole wheat toast, coffee and the conversations with Marty. I certainly feel safe inside there.

I know that people are working hard to make SA a nice place to shop, dine, etc.,but the question in my mind is are we doing enough and are we focusing on the right things?
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Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13

Post Number: 3683
Registered: 1-2004


Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 11:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jerry-
Why use Conways as a point of reference when you say yourself you know it's not across from Oberlin but it's 'not too from' where the incident occured? Why didn't you just use Burger Crud? Oops I mean Burger King?
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anon
Supporter
Username: Anon

Post Number: 2519
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 12:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Vic Deluca and David Humer blocked the construction of a police dept on SA.

Now that is just an outright lie.
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JerryC
Citizen
Username: Jerryc

Post Number: 233
Registered: 12-2002


Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 12:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I mentioned it because it was where I happened to be when I read the article. I just felt that it was interesting that I was partonizing a business on the ave when I read the article about the incident ON the ave., not far away. Why on earth should I lie about where I was???????? Is the situation so tenuous that we are worried that mentioning an establishement in the same post as a commentary on a crime nearby is a big problem? Do you think that the owner of Conway's, Marty, doesn't know that there is crime in the area?????? Why don't you go talk with him about the issues. I do all the time, while I'm eating there, partronizing his business. How come nobody made an issue about gtonne's mention of a car being stolen from the Verjus parking lot?
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Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13

Post Number: 3686
Registered: 1-2004


Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 1:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jerry-
I'm not saying you lied about where you were. I guess it wouldn't be any different then someone saying I was having a beer in (fill in the blank) reading the paper when I read there was a strong arm robbery at Blockbuster.
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Haight-Strawbury
Supporter
Username: Strawberry

Post Number: 6676
Registered: 10-2001


Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 1:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wrong Anon,

If Fred has gotten his way we'd have a police station just about completed instead of an aging dance studio that could easily have relocated. Vic and David are responsible.

This is old news and you trying to rewrite history is just plain idiotic.
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anon
Supporter
Username: Anon

Post Number: 2522
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 3:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You don't know what you are talking about. The TC voted to place the new Police HQ at the site of the dance studio. Fred Profeta got his way! Then some citizen circulated a petition against it and got lots of signatures. The TC and the Mayor backtracked, paid for a public opinion poll and when the results came out, reversed themselves and went looking for a new site. It all had little or nothing to do with Dave or Vic.
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Nohero
Supporter
Username: Nohero

Post Number: 4978
Registered: 10-1999


Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 3:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mr. Strawberry, I think you have your past potential police stations confused.

Back in 2003, there was a proposal to tear down the old Hilton library, and build a police station and a new library on the site. Some residents objected to the location of the police station there, and other concerns were raised, as well.

Then, in the spring of 2004, the decision was made to acquire a building nearby the first site, to construct a new station. That's the building which was called the "Bette White" site, after the dance studio located in the building. Lots of people objected to that, too.

In the middle of all this, the Verizon building was for sale, and there was talk about using that as a potential location.

A few months later, there was a telephone poll sponsored by the Township Committee. On seeing the results, the TC decided to go with a different location. The decision was made to go with a third site, a little further down the block, which includes part of the old Apter Funeral Home site.

So, nobody "blocked construction", and the "aging dance studio" (as you put it) was only the designated site for a few months.
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Haight-Strawbury
Supporter
Username: Strawberry

Post Number: 6677
Registered: 10-2001


Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 4:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

and it was killed by Vic (while out of office but still wielding a big stick) and Humer.

If Fred/Ian had their way SA would be much safer today. This is the bottom line.
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Nohero
Supporter
Username: Nohero

Post Number: 4979
Registered: 10-1999


Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 6:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nobody "killed" the police station on SA.

There was a community dialogue, and a final decision made about where to build it.

Although, I'm sure that there will be people pushing your version of the story in years to come (such as around election time).
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Lydia
Supporter
Username: Lydial

Post Number: 1601
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 6:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Back to the subject...

I had a friend who was kidnapped at gunpoint while delivering pizzas in a dicey area in Chicago, they held him for over a day while they joy (road, rided?) around.

2 people and a gun can detain a terrified victim for a long time. My friend was locked in his trunk for much of the ordeal.

I believe the victim's account until we have credible information to the contrary.

The good news is, like the cabbie in the Springfield Av. incident, my friend lived to tell the tale.

Crime on Springfield continues to chug along, but Springfield Av. feels safe to me during daylight hours. I think that progress is definitely being made.

Setbacks happen, and when they do it's alarming and disheartening.

Statistically, it's probably safer to walk down Springfield Avenue at dusk than to ride a bike without a helmet on Old Short Hills Road. I saw one bike fatality there, and since I've lived in Maplewood I've known 2 people who were killed in completely random car accidents.

The difference is that being held up at gunpoint feels completely out of (y)our control.

I consider Springfield av. to be a work in progress, but I think we are turning the corner.

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ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc

Post Number: 4710
Registered: 9-2001


Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 6:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

“Back in 2003, there was a proposal to tear down the old Hilton library.”


Give it up Nohero! We don't have to wait for anything. In case you forgot, I was the first one to push for “MOVING” the Hilton Branch Library to the Dehart recreation center during my run for Township Committee back in 2002. At that time I had an investor willing to pay up to $2.2 million, who wanted to put in a big beautiful drive-in, 24/7, Walgreens Drug and convenience store. IMHO, it's still not too late to move the library where it belongs!

Once the Township Committee finally saw the wisdom of using the space for the police station at a huge financial savings to the town, they screwed it up by dropping the ball and allowing a handful of NIMBY’s talk them out of it. Net Project Cost in 2003 was only $9,000,000 to complete the project, and it included the cost of $1,150,000 to replace the Hilton Library… By now both the police department and the new library would have been built and fully operational.

In my mind that failure to act was the beginning of the end of saving the town some money on this deal, and was a clear indication of weak leadership on the Township Committee way back in 2002/2003.

Moving the library two blocks away would have maintained the two library status, saved three years of infighting among themselves and the businesses in and around the Bette White Center, the Verizon site, and Nelsons Garage; not to mention the purchase of property we never needed to buy, a lot of additional lawyer fees, all the additional charges from the Eli Goldstein Partnership, all the added construction costs, interest on our money, and on and on and on….

Sorry folks, strong leadership has to do the right thing, at the right time, for the greater good of the community as a whole; not cave in for a handful of NIMBY's!!! Professionals evaluate the problem, make the decision, and do it. Politicians make the decision and change their mind based on public opinion. I'm afraid I have to go with Strawberry again on his assessments of where to place the blame on our present status...
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JerryC
Citizen
Username: Jerryc

Post Number: 234
Registered: 12-2002


Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 7:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gotta go with you on this one Art. While in the end, we sorta won and got the PD on the Ave, I still will always feel that the overall TC caved to pressure from a small group rather than look for the greater good. I remember the meeting to discuss putting the PD at the site of the Hilton Library. It seemed to me like a slam dunk except for the whining by a few folks who didn't want it that close to them or from those who couldn't fathom walking an extra couple of blocks to the new location for the library.
Oh well, water under the bridge so to speak. Let's just hope it doesn't happen again (and again and again!).

However, that was not the point of my initial post anyway...
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Nohero
Supporter
Username: Nohero

Post Number: 4980
Registered: 10-1999


Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 7:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Relax, Mr. Ajc, I was not referring to your "move the library" plan. I was just talking about the earliest police station plan that had been on the table at the time.

And your last comment is internally inconsistent. You state -
Politicians make the decision and change their mind based on public opinion. I'm afraid I have to go with Strawberry again on his assessments of where to place the blame on our present status...
But, Mr. Strawberry blames Mr. DeLuca, who was not in office at the time. The decision-makers were the members of the TC at the time.

I still disagree with your criticism of the TC's consideration of public opinion on this issue.
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Haight-Strawbury
Supporter
Username: Strawberry

Post Number: 6678
Registered: 10-2001


Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 7:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually I blamed Humer as well so it's Nohero who is internally inconsistent, not AJC.
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aquaman
Supporter
Username: Aquaman

Post Number: 682
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 8:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

NoHero,

Mr. DeLuca drummed up his supporters and created a movement to keep the Bette White space as it is.

Ironically, the Bette White business is up for sale if you keep your ear to the ground.

DeLuca doesn't have to hold an elected office to stir the pot, but I think you know that NoHero.

DeLuca is not a hero or an antihero, he's an opportunist who understands %'s and sob stories.

So is Profeta, so is Huemer.

The key is to make these politicians do the right thing with the votes we cast.

Quick question: Which of the three has a summer house?

Profeta, DeLuca or Huemer?

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ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc

Post Number: 4713
Registered: 9-2001


Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 10:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a summer house Aquaman, so what?

Dear Mr. Nohero, I am referring to my move the library plan. My plan was the catalyst of everything that followed as regards to the library site…

And, I'm also talking about the public presentation of the New Police & Court Building plan of Oct.29, 2003. Included in the plan was an expensive cost comparison study by Eli Goldstein of 12 different sites that were on the table at the time Vic, David, and Jerry were still on, and in full control of the Township Committee.

FWIW, the costs given were based on construction starting by June 2004. Therefore, I still stand by my position that weak politicians make their decision and then change their minds based on public opinion.

Think about the message it sends to voters. We’re talking about building a police station that looks like it will cost double what it would have if we went with a location plan only a few hundred feet away, only two years ago. It really sucks when you think about it. We elect so called leaders to make thoughtful decisions, and then they change their mind when confronted by a little resistance. IMHO, if this is all they stand for, we might as well get rid of all the politicians and govern by referendum...

The more I think about this waste of time and our wasted property taxes, the more aggravated I get!!!!

Check it out, like John Kerry and other politicians on the far left, Mr. DeLuca, who was still the Mayor at that time, has this thing of voting for something before he changes his mind and votes against it... Right Vic?
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Smarty Jones
Citizen
Username: Birdstone

Post Number: 200
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Monday, January 23, 2006 - 10:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why hasn't Springfield Ave. business associations considered 24 hour private security? They want to be an outdoor mall, and Malls do this all the time...the costs are outweighed by the gains of added shoppers.

Home owners associations have been doing this for years to great success....Sure, get the town to deploy resources, but why sit around and wait in the interim?
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anon
Supporter
Username: Anon

Post Number: 2529
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Monday, January 23, 2006 - 3:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's funny Art, but DeLuca wasn't on the TC when they took the "final" vote to located the new Police HQ at the so-called "Bette White site". That was a 3-2 vote with Profeta, Grodman and Laventhal in the majority and Huemer and Pettis voting no. Huemer favored the Maplewood Tire site on the south side of SA. Pettis was the only one, to my recollection, that did not want a new HQ on SA. He wanted to renovate the old Dunnell Road location.

So there is no basis for the statement made by another well-known poster that Huemer and DeLuca were against locating the Police HQ at Springfield Avenue. And I'm not sure what vote DeLuca cast and then later voted the other way.

I absolutely agree with your statement:

We elect so called leaders to make thoughtful decisions, and then they change their mind when confronted by a little resistance. IMHO, if this is all they stand for, we might as well get rid of all the politicians and govern by referendum...

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growler
Citizen
Username: Growler

Post Number: 886
Registered: 11-2001


Posted on Monday, January 23, 2006 - 8:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So Jerry....what to you propose? You bash SA but have yet to do come up with any solutions. And this is an isolated incident. Why bring it up?
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ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc

Post Number: 4717
Registered: 9-2001


Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 12:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for your continuing interest Anon. It's amazing how quickly people forget...

True, DeLuca wasn't on the TC when the "final" votes were made. By that time, he was playing Monday night quarterback. However, the responsibility to select the location for a new police headquarters was on his watch as Mayor. It was at the time when Vic, David, and Jerry were all in control of the Township Committee, not Fred and Ian…

IMHO, the three musketeers had their chance to relocate the police headquarters wherever they wanted, and could have saved us all millions, and a couple of years of aggravation. But instead they fell on their swords, they gave up the ship, they tossed in the towel and failed to act.

Let’s be clear, the Hilton Library Site was the primary site under consideration in 2003, NOT the Bette White site.

The fact is the Bette White site wasn’t even on the list of the 12 locations under consideration on October 29, 2003. This is the whole point; the three of them all caved in after all the thought and planning, and all the money spent to make the best choice for the town as a whole.

In retrospect, they collectively made the right decision based on the information and all the sites available to them at the time. The library site was their choice, it was the best choice, and rather than follow through, they buckled under a little pressure and voted against it after they had voted for it.

I have all the color diagrams and site feasibility studies if anyone wants to see them. The library site today would still be a public facility, and our police headquarters would be located in a beautifully wooded, park-like setting, with more parking, better access, lots of room for further expansion, and we would still have a branch library only two blocks away. As if that isn’t enough, it would all be done by now, and as a town we would be much better off financially.

So Anon, FWIW, it’s nice for a change to know there’s something we’re both in absolute agreement on...

We elect our leaders to make thoughtful decisions for us, however, when confronted by a little resistance, they change their mind. IMHO, if this is the best they can do, we might as well get rid of the politicians and govern by referendum...
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pseudonymous
Citizen
Username: Berry_festival

Post Number: 227
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 9:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"We elect our leaders to make thoughtful decisions for us, however, when confronted by a little resistance, they change their mind. IMHO, if this is the best they can do, we might as well get rid of the politicians and govern by referendum... "

AJC, are you advocating to 'get rid of' Fred Profeta? The referendum was his idea...
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JerryC
Citizen
Username: Jerryc

Post Number: 235
Registered: 12-2002


Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 11:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Growler,

This was NOT an isolated incident. There have been a number of other serious incidents on SA in the past. Why is it that everytime someone choses to discuss a topic that is perhaps negitive, someone feels the need to pop out and use the old "what are you suggesting"..."you're just bashing" response???? Is it possible that someone wants to bring the issue to light for discussion without having all the answers???? Did that ever occur to you??? The purpose of a discussion forum is to have discussion. It is not the "Gee, I have a solution to all of the problems" board. My solution up to now has been to be very active with the SA Partnership. However, I am begining to think that other measures are needed. For example: When I talked with Marty at Conways (who by the way had no problem with the fact that I mentioned his establishment in the post), he said that what the police ought to be doing is stoping every person that they don't know on the Ave and simply asking them who they are and what they are doing there. Obviously, that would be WAY politically incorrect but he feels that the only way to make the Ave really safe is to take some extreme measures. While I may agree, I am also smart enough to know that that isn't going to happen. So....what measures CAN be taken beyond what we are currently doing? Can we increase the patrol frequency? Can we get foot patrols? What happened to the idea of a bicycle patrol? Can the PD be a little more agressive in questioning people? Will more pedestrian traffic in and of itself help? Will the location of the new PD help?
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anon
Supporter
Username: Anon

Post Number: 2531
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 11:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Art:

If you are correct then there were two separate occassions when the TC "caved in" to public pressure and backtracked on their selection of a site for Police HQ. The first would have been in 2003 when they abandoned the idea of the Hilton Library site, and the second would have been in 2004 when they changed course on the Bette White site. In 2003 the TC was Ryan, DeLuca, Huemer, Profeta, Grodman. In 2004, Pettis and Laventhal had replaced Ryan and DeLuca. So the TC did it twice under two separate regimes.
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marie
Citizen
Username: Marie

Post Number: 1394
Registered: 6-2001
Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 12:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

JerryC,

I believe that all of the suggestions you make will help make SA a safer, more viable place to live and shop - it seems that the political will to go forward with some/all of these ideas isn't there. Maybe it's time for SA business owners to attend some TC meetings?
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growler
Citizen
Username: Growler

Post Number: 887
Registered: 11-2001


Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 12:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Jerry. Those are some good questions to ask as a starting place. Next step is to ask those same questions to the mayor and the police chief.
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ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc

Post Number: 4719
Registered: 9-2001


Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 1:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear pseudonymous,

How appropriate to identify yourself as a fictitious and self-assumed pen name. Who are you writing for this time?

FYI, I’m not advocating to get rid of’ anyone. My purpose in all this is only to set the record straight. I believe we should elect our leaders to make decisions for the greater good of our community, not to be swayed by small groups of dissenters. I invite anyone to dispute the facts I’ve put forward in my earlier posts on this matter.

In a process they controlled, Vic, David, and Jerry virtually rejected every potential venue to relocate the new police headquarters, and in the process, failed the police, and miserably failed to fulfill their responsibility to the town. In the end, they abdicated their responsibility to Fred and Ian, who in essence were left holding the bag.

As for Mayor Profeta, IMHO, Fred is the best Mayor Maplewood has had since Robert Grasmere. Why would anyone want to get rid of him, or for that matter Ken, or Kathie? They've all done an honest and well balanced job on the committee for the past few years. I attend most TC meetings, or watch the ones I can't make... The three of them are certainly NOT in lock step like Vic, David, and Jerry were.

Now, for the record, the process of NIMBY rule by the committee was well established by their predecessors. In the wake of the inherited indecision on the committee, Fred put the question of where to put the new police headquarters to a distinguished committee of local community volunteers and opened the debate to the general public. The decision for the Bette White site was the result of that committee and that process. He showed the courage to vote for it, and the wisdom to alter it in the face of severe public outcry against it… The final result is an example of his ability to turn a frog into a Prince…

FWIW, I’m not looking forward to continuing this debate, but I will not allow the facts to be distorted for anyone else’s political gain. There are a number of others who have previously shared their opinions of this subject, who are now mysteriously silent on the issues, ie:

Kathleen, (I do not recall that David or Vic did a single thing to block moving the police station from Dunnell)
Nohero, (I think you have your past potential police stations confused)
Anon, (It all had little or nothing to do with Dave or Vic)

Why? I'll tell you why. The way I see it, doing nothing to block the move, being confused, and having little to do with it, is the whole problem... Vic, David, and Jerry should have resolved this matter on their watch and didn’t. It seems the only thing you offer on this subject is just more excuses.

BTW Anon, I believe I answered your comment about the difference between the two examples you gave… In the latter, “Fred showed the courage to vote for the recommendations of the distinguished committee that recommended the Bette White site, and then the wisdom to alter it in the face of severe public outcry against it…” In the final analyses, Fred made the best of the bad hand he was delt...
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ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc

Post Number: 4720
Registered: 9-2001


Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 2:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jerry, some how I’ve seemed to have high-jacked your thread. Sorry about that...

Q. What measures CAN be taken beyond what we are currently doing?
A. Keep on doing what you’re doing, and don’t give up!

Q. Can we increase the patrol frequency?
A. Yes, we need to show a strong presence where reported problems persist.

Q. Can we get foot patrols?
A. Yes, even if it requires patrol cars to stop and get out and check doors.

Q. What happened to the idea of a bicycle patrol?
A. We need to raise funds to buy more bikes for warmer weather tours.

Q. Can the PD be a little more aggressive in questioning people?
A. Yes, and I believe it can be accomplished in a helpful way.

Q. Will more pedestrian traffic in and of itself help?
A. Yes, the more the better. Keep building and it will come.

Q. Will the location of the new PD help?
A. Absolutely, the 24/7 activity alone will make a huge difference.

FWIW, more citizen involvement like yours will turn the Avenue around. Thanks for your service on the Partnership. You’re a great American...

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