| Author | Message | ||
     Spiderman Citizen Username: Spiderman Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2004 |
I’ve never posted to MOL before, but I cannot believe what happened to my daughter yesterday at Tuscan school. Her teacher proudly informed the whole class that ‘Santa Claus does not exist’. Apparently, ‘parents do everything’ and Santa, along with the Tooth Fairy isn’t real. I have never been inclined to critique teachers and schools. They have a pretty thankless job. However, I cannot understand why she did this. My daughter is 10 and we are under no illusions that she is at an age where suspicions and questions abound, but with two other younger children to consider, we had always planned to do this in an appropriate manner when the time was right. I do not know who gave this teacher the right to tackle the issue in a classroom full of children – some of whom clearly, and wonderfully, still believed in some of the last innocent aspects of childhood. My daughter was painfully quiet all evening and then broke down crying asking why the teacher said this. She’s a pretty well adjusted kid and hopefully we’ll find a sensible way to get past this, but I cannot help thinking this town has gone nuts. I guess I’m posting here to gauge other people’s reaction. My wife is very upset, to say the least. Are we the only parents who think this was wrong? | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 1409 Registered: 3-2004  |
ah, nothing like a childs first real life lesson. everyone has the ability to lie to you and probably will at some point. even your parents. Complaining isnt activism. stop bitching on the internet and do something about it! | ||
| shestheone Citizen Username: Shestheone Post Number: 221 Registered: 5-2003 |
spider, the liberterian can be a bit abrasive but i agree with the sentiment. you need to schedule a meeting with the teacher. you need to hear the teacher's version of exactly what was said and in what context. Based on that conversation you will need to decide whether or not to take it to the principal. I encourage you to call the teacher first thing Monday morning. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 10450 Registered: 5-2001 |
Religion has no place in our schools. The teacher was probably just carrying out district policy. | ||
| anon Supporter Username: Anon Post Number: 2547 Registered: 6-2002 |
There's no Santa Claus?  | ||
| Joe R. Citizen Username: Ragnatela Post Number: 264 Registered: 6-2004 |
Sure he does. You just have to know here to look! | ||
| sac Supporter Username: Sac Post Number: 3067 Registered: 5-2001 |
Once again we have the same thread in two places, which makes it very hard to carry on a coherent discussion. Please, everyone, find the most appropriate place for your discussion and post it just once! PS - Judging from the post numbers, there is a third copy somewhere that I haven't found. (I saw number 2 and this one, so far.) | ||
| anon Supporter Username: Anon Post Number: 2551 Registered: 6-2002 |
Why isn't this in one place? Very confusing. | ||
| TomR Citizen Username: Tomr Post Number: 954 Registered: 6-2001 |
Spiderman, Do with the information in this link as you deem appropriate: http://www.newseum.org/yesvirginia/clipping.htm So long as there is one person, however childlike or wizzened, who believes in Santa Claus, he will continue to exist. I, for one, believe. TomR | ||
| aquaman Supporter Username: Aquaman Post Number: 684 Registered: 8-2001 |
On one hand we want our schools to teach our children to separate fact from fiction. On the other hand we want our children to stay "innocent" and believe there's a kindly man who travels the world in 12 hours and delivers presents to Christian children while scarfing cookies and carrots en route. A sweet piece of fiction, but the rest of the world shouldn't have to carry on the charade for the parents who can't break the news that they were sort of, kind of, lying. Kids are innocent and trusting, if you really want them to believe in the unbeleivable, tell them about witchcraft, faerie circles, and Stonehedge. Teachers are supposed to teach facts and separate religion from superstitious nonsense. If you want your children to beleive in a Christian fairy tale perhaps you should consider a Christian school. | ||
| SoOrLady Citizen Username: Soorlady Post Number: 2942 Registered: 9-2003 |
Little harsh there aquaman.... it is not the teacher's job to discuss Santa... the Easter Bunny or the tooth fairy. She was WAY out of line. I would talk to other parents to see if they got the same story from their children. If they did, I'd go to the principle. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 10455 Registered: 5-2001 |
Trying to look at the bright side, I think the tire tracks on the new carpet give him the opportunity to go with a NASCAR inspired decorating theme. | ||
| Meandtheboys Citizen Username: Meandtheboys Post Number: 2805 Registered: 12-2004  |
Spiderman, unfortunately several MOL trolls--who seem to delight in other people's anguish--have found their way here. Do your best to ignore them. As a parent of children who still happily believe in Santa--and enjoy all the attendant excitement and euphoria of the season--I would be as upset as you are. The teacher had no right. I would suggest you schedule a meeting with the teacher and try to have a rational discussion of what actually took place, and let her know how upset you and your child are. If you can find other parents in the class who are also upset, perhaps you could speak to the teacher as a group. I might also send a letter to the principal letting him/her know how upset you are. If, after that, you are still not satisfied, I would continue up the line, until you find some satisfaction. And I'm sorry for your daughter. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 6651 Registered: 5-2001  |
I'm trying to imagine the scenario where the subject would even come up in the classroom a month past Xmas. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 12176 Registered: 1-2003  |
I agree it was mean of the teacher, though it depends on context, which we don't know. But I'm not sure the teacher broke any rule. "This is the only thing my signature says." | ||
| Duncan Supporter Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 5662 Registered: 12-2001  |
Tom, I doubt the teacher broke and written rule. And for the record, though associated with a religion, Santa is not "religious" per se. Unless you are of the "St. Nicholas" school of thought. Me, I come from the Kris Kringle school of thought. Nasty old Burgermeister.  "The truth is always a compound of two half- truths, and you never reach it, because there is always something more to say."-- Tom Stoppard | ||
| LilLB Citizen Username: Lillb Post Number: 1218 Registered: 10-2002  |
Yes, talk to the teacher and find out what happened. Maybe she assumed that kids that age don't believe in Santa anymore. IMHO, 10 is too old to still believe in Santa, but this is coming from someone whose older brother broke the news to her when she was only 5 years old that Santa, Easter Bunny, and Tooth Fairy do not exist. I still haven't forgiven him for that... | ||
| SO Ref Citizen Username: So_refugee Post Number: 1472 Registered: 2-2005  |
Things I wouldn't want a teacher to tell a kid: That the kid is - stupid, ugly, too fat, too skinny, rich, poor, or anything else that doesn't have bearing on the kid's education, like the existence of Santa Claus and such. My 8 year-old has known for two years that Santa doesn't exist; however, she is forbidden to divulge this to her friends...it's the parents' responsibility to decide when to let their child in on this little secret. The teacher may well be within the boundaries of what is allowed but, it does seem a bit insensitive, especially when you consider she drops the bomb on Friday and leaves the family to deal with any aftermath and no ability to contact her regarding the matter for two days. | ||
| gemini Citizen Username: Gemini Post Number: 422 Registered: 6-2001 |
BobK, lol | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 1434 Registered: 3-2004 |
it's the parents' responsibility to decide when to let their child in on this little secret. its not really a secret. its a lie that parents tell children cause they think its cute. lets call a spade a spade. parents that tell children that santa clause exists are lying to them. what an awesome way to start a family relationship. with a lie that serves no purpose other than to amuse parents. Complaining isnt activism. stop bitching on the internet and do something about it! | ||
| Scrotis Lo Knows Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 557 Registered: 10-2005 |
Libertarian- I usually agree with most of your posts but take exception to your last one. The notion of Santa Claus also entertains children as well...yes it is a tiny white lie, but so what? -SLK Start a Revolution or shut the hell up... | ||
| Joan Supporter Username: Joancrystal Post Number: 6959 Registered: 5-2001 |
I would recommend discussing this incident with your child first and trying to get a little more information about what the teacher actually said and the context in which the statement was made. It is quite possible that something significant is being lost in the conversation. Afterwards, if you still believe there is reason for concern, check with the teacher. Do this as soon as possible if the incident is really bothering you. | ||
| aquaman Supporter Username: Aquaman Post Number: 686 Registered: 8-2001 |
Scrotis, "Tiny White Lie"? Big old honking lie is more like it. How many kids define the bridge between childhood and reality with the moment they realized their parents were lying to them for years? Parents pose their kids on the Fake Mall Santa's lap for pictures and dig deeper into the lie - Mall Santa isn't the real Santa, but he'll tell the real Santa...but if you're bad he'll tell real Santa to stop at your house and mock you with a lump of coal, Santa is benevolent but if you piss him off you'll rue the day you heard the word "Santa" Just because something is a tradition doesn't make it a healthy child-rearing practice. Santa is fine until the kids catch on, then it's time to 'fess up. If a 10-year-old still buys into the Santa myth, I suspect it's more about the parent than the kid. | ||
| Meandtheboys Citizen Username: Meandtheboys Post Number: 2810 Registered: 12-2004 |
And a big old "BAH HUMBUG" to you too, aquaman! | ||
| MBJ Citizen Username: Mbj Post Number: 103 Registered: 10-2005 |
Get a life, aquaman. | ||
| Mr. Big Poppa Citizen Username: Big_poppa Post Number: 491 Registered: 7-2004  |
You know, I thought the Libertarian was way off at first because he was attacking the great Santa secret tradition. However, the more I thought about it, the wierder the idea of Santa seemed. Why do we create a ficticious character and lie to our kids about it? Do we do that with any other thing? My oldest is reaching the age where she will understand the Santa concept and I'm not sure I would feel comfortable propagating this lie (I could just have my wife do it instead  ). | ||
| Brett Weir Citizen Username: Brett_weir Post Number: 1220 Registered: 4-2004  |
If religion has no place in schools, then the teachers should leave it alone. It is not their job to expound upon God or Santa or even non-sectarian images like the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy or St. Valentine. Those issues should be referred back to parents/guardians. If promoting religion is off-limits, so is debunking it. Math teachers should teach math, science teachers should teach science, and so on. No one connected with any public school should be telling children what to believe or who to believe in. I'm sure there is more to this incident that Spiderman will share after he checks further, but the premise is simple; if religion is such a bugaboo, fine. Leave it entirely alone. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 12193 Registered: 1-2003 |
Why do we create a ficticious character and lie to our kids about it? Do we do that with any other thing? Lots of parents tell their kids that God exists. Proof of God's existence isn't any more abundant than proof of Santa's existence. Now, I've heard the argument that if we tell them there's a Santa and they learn that we were kidding that it shake their trust in us and their faith in God. That doesn't seem to happen, though. "This is the only thing my signature says." | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 1438 Registered: 3-2004 |
You know, I thought the Libertarian was way off at first because he was attacking the great Santa secret tradition. However, the more I thought about it, the wierder the idea of Santa seemed. i am pleased with your progress towards the dark side. soon, we will rule the galaxy! Complaining isnt activism. stop bitching on the internet and do something about it! | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 1439 Registered: 3-2004 |
Get a life, aquaman when people post stuff like this, my first 3 thoughts are: 1. how does this contribute in any way? 2. does this person consider themselves a rational adult? 3. the point that elicited this comment must have hit pretty close to home. Complaining isnt activism. stop bitching on the internet and do something about it! | ||
| Scrotis Lo Knows Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 564 Registered: 10-2005 |
Aquaman- Yup, and I see droves of 8 year olds committing mass suicide when they learn the truth. It is funny how his Santa thing is such a big deal/lie but the tradition keeps carrying over with every generation. God forbid you feed a kid's imagination. Lighten up. In some ways the Santa/Easter Bunny/Tooth Fairy gigs are silly, but it ISN'T ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK.....it is about the children... Remind me never to come to your house for the holidays... Start a Revolution or shut the hell up... | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 1441 Registered: 3-2004 |
it is about the children. how about not starting their lives with a big lie from their parents. Complaining isnt activism. stop bitching on the internet and do something about it! | ||
| LilLB Citizen Username: Lillb Post Number: 1219 Registered: 10-2002 |
I agree Scrotis. I don't think there's anything wrong with encouraging the story of Santa or Easter Bunny with young children. We do it because it's fun for the kids and it's fun for us to see their excitement. We have so few years in our lives with that kind of magic - let the kids have it for as long as it will last. Imagination is a good thing. Sometimes it's just about the fun. When they get wise to the story then it's time to tell them the truth and they'll be old enough to handle it. | ||
| Scrotis Lo Knows Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 566 Registered: 10-2005 |
Libertarian- A "big lie" ? Talk about melodrama..... Start a Revolution or shut the hell up... | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1383 Registered: 9-2004 |
I guess 10 year olds are not the 10 year-olds of the Leave it to Beaver age. With the internet et al, a 10 year old is bound to find out before they reach this age that the Easter Bunny and Santa does not exist. When my kids were that age they had their list written out of what they wanted for Christmas and given to ME. My youngest kid made sure I left him an Easter Basket because he was not to old to receive one. He even described the one he wanted. However, I think it is up to the parents and not the teacher to provide this little fairytale (I'd rather not use lie here)is not true. Did anyone see the Chris Rock show "Everyone Hates Chris?" One storyline featured the older son telling his younger sister that Santa does not exist. The show got plenty of angry parents calling in. | ||
| dave23 Citizen Username: Dave23 Post Number: 1278 Registered: 5-2001 |
Troll alert. | ||
| SoOrLady Citizen Username: Soorlady Post Number: 2945 Registered: 9-2003 |
Dear Editor-I am 8 years old. Some of my little friends say there is no Santa Claus. Papa says, If you see it in The Sun, it's so.» Please tell me the truth, is there a Santa Claus? Virginia O'Hanlon Virginia, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the scepticism of a sceptical age. They do not believe except they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men's or children's, are little. In this great universe of ours, man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge. Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Santa Claus! It would be as dreary as if there were no Virginias. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The external light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished. Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies. You might get your papa to have men to watch in all the chimneys on Christmas eve to catch Santa Claus, but even if you did not see Santa Claus coming down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Santa Claus, but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that's no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world. You tear apart the baby's rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived could tear apart. Only faith, poetry, love romance, can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, Virginia, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding. No Santa Claus! Thank God! he lives and lives forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay 10 times 10,000 years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood. | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 1442 Registered: 3-2004 |
Libertarian- A "big lie" ? Talk about melodrama... if it is not a big lie then what is all of the melodrama about your kids finding out the truth? shouldnt be a big deal then. Complaining isnt activism. stop bitching on the internet and do something about it! | ||
| Scrotis Lo Knows Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 567 Registered: 10-2005 |
Lib- My whole point is that it is not a big deal either way. Do what you see fit with your kids, but to make it out that it is a huge mindblowing lie to tell your kids about Santa is just a bit over the top... And depending on the context, it is not up to the teacher to offer this info to her class... For such a privacy guy, I am surprised you don't agree....if parents want to lie or disclose the truth about Santa then by all means go ahead.... Start a Revolution or shut the hell up... | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 1446 Registered: 3-2004 |
but to make it out that it is a huge mindblowing lie to tell your kids about Santa is just a bit over the top... the content of the lie is not the important part. the important part is that you tell your kids a big lie for your own amusement. they would do just fine with the truth from day one but you want to watch the joy they get from the lie. forget the fact that one day they will learn that you have lied to them. its a good lesson for a child, your parents are liars and have lied to you for years. quality parenting. Complaining isnt activism. stop bitching on the internet and do something about it! |
