| Author | Message | ||
     Parkbench87 Citizen Username: Parkbench87 Post Number: 3940 Registered: 7-2001  |
S&P Vote for who you want but your "out of touch with today's youth comment" is bizzare. We all should listen to our children but I don't think that parents should vote as a proxy for their children. You are also assuming that all the students understand the issues and all of the candiates positions. Hell I doubt that many adults understand them. | ||
| breal Citizen Username: Breal Post Number: 812 Registered: 6-2002 |
I remember what it was like in high school. None of my teachers recruited me to be a foot soldier in their labor dispute. They would have regarded that as a boundary violation. I was a minor. I was their student. They had the power to give me a bad grade. It would have been an abuse of power. By any means necessary cannot include conscripting minors. If someone tries this with my kid, I'm coming back at them. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1034 Registered: 10-2004  |
I for one am going to vote for change. While I thing Gregg is a solid and honest individual I cannot vote in good conscience for anyone of the incumbents. It is these same people who defended their hiring of Super H and who allowed him to bring our district to this point. I am not happy with Mrs. Pollack and her tenure should never have been approved given the unusual incidents and the hostile atmosphere she has created with her workers. I think the teachers deserve a fair contract that gives them some assurances that we value them and I think our administration has plenty of fat to purge. The current board members have served in good faith and my thanks goes to them for their service to the community but its time for new people to help lead the district back to excellence | ||
| dave23 Citizen Username: Dave23 Post Number: 1609 Registered: 5-2001 |
breal, Which teachers said what? And when did they say it? | ||
| crabby Citizen Username: Crabbyappleton Post Number: 551 Registered: 1-2004 |
I have no idea who I'll vote for... Brownlee- looks nice, but is he a talker or an "action guy"? Gleason- Haven't met him yet. Eastman- I think he likes to hear himself talk. PayneParish- Not impressed. Betheil- Knows his stuff. WILl have no learning curve on BOE. Voted not to renew Horoshak 3 years ago. Fraser- Knows his stuff. But is he a PC artist at heart? | ||
| breal Citizen Username: Breal Post Number: 813 Registered: 6-2002 |
And P.S., I am not aligned with the central office or the incumbents who are running for reelection. | ||
| mjh Supporter Username: Mjh Post Number: 446 Registered: 5-2001 |
breal: well said. There is an issue here that is unrelated to whether Pollack is good, bad, or indifferent (and I think she should resign, BTW). The professionalism of our teaching staff is in question. Discussing your labor disputes or the job performance of your boss is not professional or ethical. | ||
| Jim McLaughlin Citizen Username: Jmclaugh Post Number: 64 Registered: 3-2005 |
Sandi & Paul, Peter and others Are you saying that the challengers and their supporters (sorry Gordon) think it is appropriate for SOME teachers to talk about the principal with their students? Do they think its okay that classroom instructional time (even in math classes) are used to discuss the principal and other controversial subjects. I doubt it. I agree that we should listen to and taken seriously the opinions of the teenagers in our lives. I've been impressed with the thoughtfulness and passion of many of the students who have posted on MOL. I believe as they do that Renee Pollack should resign. However, that doesn't mean that they have a full or nuanced understanding of the issues, or that they cannot be manipulated (unwittingly or otherwise) my the adults in their lives. | ||
| Gordon Agress Citizen Username: Odd Post Number: 413 Registered: 8-2004 |
Maybe some supporters of the challengers think teacher manipulation of students is okay (if it's happening at all -- again, all I personally have is hearsay) but if so they certainly don't speak for the candidates or even the majority of the supporters that I know of. Both sides have some supporters whose views really don't reflect the candidates or the mass of their support. Also, some folks here have offered comments that "respect is a two way street" -- I've argued that while this might explain, it couldn't excuse, but note that it isn't clear that it was offered as an excuse in the first place. So I'm not sure it's very clear what people here actually do think. If I cared more about it, I'd press for some clarification before I started critiquing people's opinions. | ||
| Sandi and Paul Citizen Username: Momsandi Post Number: 74 Registered: 10-2005 |
If there are teachers who are acting in an unprofessional manner, the parents WHO ACTUALLY HAVE EVIDENCE should report it to the administration. All I have seen here are unsubstantiated innuendos designed to undermine the position of the student body when they decided to have their sit out. They had complaints which have been explained. Yet certain MOLers who support the current status quo have sought to explain away their gripes by suggesting that the teachers put them up to it. You can explain it anyway you want, that is how it looks to me. | ||
| wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 2260 Registered: 5-2001 |
Are you saying you don't believe a CHS student when she said this:
and then followed up with this:
I do. And if she was my daughter, I'd be going straight to the administration with the names of those teachers. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1038 Registered: 10-2004 |
Sure you would, especially if your daughter was really excelling in class and loved her teachers as many Columbia students do. You would be first in line to have the administration discipline those unethical and poor examples for your child. Sure you would. On the other hand if your daughter was getting C's it would give you a great reason to go and complain. This is a non issue. The only question that is valid to a parent is - "Is my childs teacher able to reach her and teach her, relate to her and is my child interested and enthusiastic about going to school?". That is the only question a parent needs to ask in order to know whether a teacher is good or bad. This entire discussion is all about nothing. | ||
| wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 2261 Registered: 5-2001 |
Thanks for the ethics lessons Hoops. I believe there are far better models out there than you. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1040 Registered: 10-2004 |
 I have no doubt of that, however I dont lack for honesty. | ||
| Sherlock Citizen Username: Sherlock Post Number: 14 Registered: 5-2005 |
Have you all forgotten what it was like to be in high school. I went to school in CA and maybe it was different out there. But students do not exist in a vacumm. They are there, they are experiencing what they are experiencing, ie., disrespect, and they have feelings about it and talk about it. Teachers may have more respect of our childrens abilities than we do. They talk to them about the issues that the students are seeine everyday. How many of you who are parents of High School students are talking to your children about the high school? how many were doing it before recent events? How many of you have ever had an adult conversation with your child about the politics of education? our schools? their experience? from what I read hear some of you really don't get it. Most teachers have been amazing with our students, and most teachers are absolutely aware of appropriate boundaries. I am so tired of teacher bashing on mol, especially from the likes of Wendy, hooray that she won't come back to this site. | ||
| wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 2262 Registered: 5-2001 |
Neither do I (lack for honesty that is - at least we have that in common). And I know how to separate out respecting a good teacher but knowing when that teacher has crossed the line. Don't presume to tell me what the only things I should think about or care about are. In other areas you seem to care about things beyond your own nuclear family - why the cynical assumptions here? | ||
| Sherlock Citizen Username: Sherlock Post Number: 15 Registered: 5-2005 |
Wendy, I thought you were leaving? could it be you misspoke about that? | ||
| wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 2263 Registered: 5-2001 |
Well now that you're here Sherlock I feel compelled to stay at least to keep the discourse civil and honest as opposed to your rude behavior reflected here and in last night's BOE meeting. Sorry to disappoint. But I never really left. | ||
| Sherlock Citizen Username: Sherlock Post Number: 16 Registered: 5-2005 |
From you being thought rude is a badge of honor, oh, you might want to look that concept up. As well as revolution, freedom you know that kind of stuff. You might want to start though by looking up respect, you like the boe, respect only those who think and act like you. As you can see, for the boe you can see that treating people without respect has a consequence. Sometimes that is called revolution. And sometimes revolution becomes something like, say, the United States of America. get it? | ||
| wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 2264 Registered: 5-2001 |
Oh I get what you're saying. As far as getting it. Yes I do since I'm happy to say I majored in psychology with an emphasis in abnormal pyschology. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1041 Registered: 10-2004 |
Please accept my apology for putting the post in personal terms. I did not mean you personally. I really meant to place my arguments to the position you took with respect to notifying the adminstration. While I agree with all of you who say that a teacher should not discuss their contract or the status of an administrator, I do not think it is a hard and fast ethical line. The issues going on at the school affect all of the people who work there, teachers, security guards, janitors, lunch aides and administrators plus all of the students. Talking about the status of the principal is not unacceptable since it is a public discussion even here. Our kids are not sheltered, they know whats going on and they can figure out for themselves what is right and what is wrong. If you (not just you wendy, any of you) want your children to understand right and wrong and think that there is a line crossed by the teachers that should not have been then talk with your kids about personal ethics. I stand by my statement that this thread is about nothing. | ||
| ffof Citizen Username: Ffof Post Number: 4635 Registered: 5-2001  |
SandiandPaul- You have mischaracterized what many have been trying to say. No one is trying to undermine the student body! This isn't about the protest. THis started waaaaaay before the protest. And I mean years and years. There are teachers who use the classroom for other purposes (contract complaints, admin complaints, racial complaints) and many of those teachers are actually very good teachers. No one is trying to explain away anyone's gripes. If you've actually read through the posts, most posters you are disagreeing with are not necessarily defenders of the status quo. | ||
| Sherlock Citizen Username: Sherlock Post Number: 17 Registered: 5-2005 |
Abnormal, how appropriate! | ||
| Sherlock Citizen Username: Sherlock Post Number: 18 Registered: 5-2005 |
ffof, If you actually read posts you would get what sandiandpaul is trying to say. You and your ilke have made your decsions about things before you read so that you don't get what is being said because it goes through the prism of your decsion. stop bashing teachers. | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1509 Registered: 9-2004  |
I remember what it was like in high school. None of my teachers recruited me to be a foot soldier in their labor dispute. They would have regarded that as a boundary violation. I was a minor. I was their student. They had the power to give me a bad grade. It would have been an abuse of power. By any means necessary cannot include conscripting minors. If someone tries this with my kid, I'm coming back at them. So I guess our students at CHS cannot THINK and ORGANIZE for themselves? Ahhh… what are we teaching our kids? Do you have kids at CHS? Wendy do you? Wendy you seem so aligned with Principal Pollack, makes me wonder why you're putting ALL the blame on our manipulating teachers for this walkout. What's your MOTIVE? BTW…I DO have a senior at CHS and have seen in these past 4 years the downward spiral of communication and respect amongst the teachers,the adminstrators and the dear student who ATTEND CHS with Mrs. Pollack. Kind of sad to have my senior witness this kind of atmosphere at CHS in his last year here.  | ||
| Jim McLaughlin Citizen Username: Jmclaugh Post Number: 65 Registered: 3-2005 |
Sherlock, I am not bashing teachers. I expect teachers and administrators to behavior in an appropriate and professional matter. SOME simply are not, and they should stop it immediately. Moreover, any teacher who uses instructional time to discuss non-educational matters should be disciplined for it. FWIW, my wife reported it to the administration last year. I know the teacher that she complained about (who by the way is an excellent math teacher, much loved by his students) was spoken to, but to no avail. He complained loudly about censorship, lack of free speech, etc. and threatened to file an union grievance (I don't know if he followed through). I believe the administration backed off, and that is precisely the reason why Renee Pollack must go. She has lost control of the school. | ||
| Sherlock Citizen Username: Sherlock Post Number: 19 Registered: 5-2005 |
What the heck kind of school did you go to? Do you think that teachers are automatons that she exist in the near box of the subject in which they teach. wasn't galleo a math teacher, sort of, and wasn't he a radical, and again, neither students nor teachers nor education exist in a vacuum. | ||
| Wordsmith Citizen Username: Wordsmith Post Number: 16 Registered: 5-2003  |
“If you (not just you wendy, any of you) want your children to understand right and wrong and think that there is a line crossed by the teachers that should not have been then talk with your kids about personal ethics.” Dear Mr. Hoops, You seem to be short on commas, so I will give you one. While we’re at it, let’s move that misplaced modifier and capitalize that proper name. (Yes, I know she doesn’t it do so herself, but we know that names should be capitalized, even if some people take liberties here on MOL.) Try this, “If you (not just you Wendy, any of you) want your children to understand right and wrong and think that the teachers crossed a line they should not have, then talk with your kids about personal ethics.” Yours truly, Ms. Wordsmith | ||
| Fruitcake Citizen Username: Fruitcake Post Number: 275 Registered: 9-2003 |
"wasn't galleo a math teacher...?" That's it! That's the solution! Let’s take these errant teachers and excommunicate them for 400 years or so. Then they'll understand right from wrong, and they’ll damn well understand who is in charge! | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1046 Registered: 10-2004 |
wHY THANK YOU mS. wORDSMITH. i HAVE A PHOBIA ABOUT commas. iN MY OPINION THEY GET IN THE WAY OF A GOOD RUN ON SENTENCE. sO SORRY. mR. hOOPS | ||
| dave23 Citizen Username: Dave23 Post Number: 1613 Registered: 5-2001 |
Wordsmith, If Hoops was referencing the poster's online moniker, then he was correct in keeping it lowercase. After all, he may not know if Wendy is her actual name. | ||
| Jim McLaughlin Citizen Username: Jmclaugh Post Number: 66 Registered: 3-2005 |
Instructional time should be reserved for instruction. One third of the math class period should not be devoted to discussions about the Iraq war, teacher grievances, etc. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1047 Registered: 10-2004 |
JM - I can not agree with you about that at all. The curriculum for each class has to be covered in the time alloted. There is plenty of filler in there to discuss things that are relevant to our students lives that have nothing to do with the particular subject. The best teachers can reach our children on multiple levels. I agree with the Sherlock about that. dave23 - thanks. I do try to copy down the screen names how they are written (except when abreviating or arguing with SLK) | ||
| breal Citizen Username: Breal Post Number: 814 Registered: 6-2002 |
Like I said, Phenixrising, I remember what high school was like. What I was like in high school. In math class, I thought about math. Math and boys. I never once thought about labor negotiations. But maybe that was just me. | ||
| wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 2266 Registered: 5-2001 |
I have nothing but respect and admiration for your patience Jim. The argument went something like this: "You and your ilk are bashing the teachers and students alike. The students have their own opinions." [of course no one said they didn't and no one is bashing] Well that gets refuted by you and others by pointing out that what some of us were concerned/upset/disgusted about was the opining on things other than the subject at hand and taking up valuable instructional time in the process. Then the argument goes like this: "Oh teachers are human not robots. Didn't you ever hear of Galileo, viva la revolution." or Wendy is a BOE ••• kisser or something like that. Who knows what the response will be to your factual statement regarding 1/3 of the class time taken up with their political leanings or complaints, etc. So, again, thanks for your patience. And one third Hoops? You sure about your opinion on that? Well even if there is that much room for filler which I highly doubt, then they shouldn't be opining about their boss' continued job, faculty complaints, etc. More relevant is to discuss a tangentially related subject to the one they are teaching. But I don't believe 1/3 is filler anyway, clearly not for most students. | ||
| Sherlock Citizen Username: Sherlock Post Number: 20 Registered: 5-2005 |
And when I was in high school, in the late 70's I thought about the vietnam war. And that is the way it is. People are different. Different things matter to different people and they experience the same world differently. And if a teacher is really good and covers what needs to be covered and respects students enough to utilize the extra time in discussion of topical events so be it. Because the world outside of high school works that way. We live our lives and the world and it's event are apart of that. | ||
| ffof Citizen Username: Ffof Post Number: 4636 Registered: 5-2001 |
sherlock- my ilk[e]? I totally got sandiandpaul. You clearly did not read through any of my posts for meaning though. You want to see teacher bashing, so you see teacher bashing. Clearly, if you would like to act like an •••, you will be perceived as an •••. | ||
| Sherlock Citizen Username: Sherlock Post Number: 21 Registered: 5-2005 |
And the last time you were in a high school class was? because you seem to think that you know som much more then anyone who thinks differently than you. | ||
| Sherlock Citizen Username: Sherlock Post Number: 22 Registered: 5-2005 |
And the refuge for those of limited depth is name calling isn't it? | ||
| tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 4187 Registered: 12-2001  |
"And when I was in high school, in the late 70's I thought about the vietnam war. And that is the way it is." What were you thinking? Perhaps you were wishing you had been in high school when the war was on? |
