| Author | Message | ||
     anon Supporter Username: Anon Post Number: 2658 Registered: 6-2002 |
Suppose I wrote a book about the US State Department under the Bush Administartion and called it "The State Department and its Lies." No Problem. Suppose I called it "Black People and their Lies." Is that title racist? Powell and Rice are Black. I consider them to be liars. I am not criticizing all Black People, just two of them. Is the title racist? | ||
| aquaman Supporter Username: Aquaman Post Number: 841 Registered: 8-2001  |
Did this film address Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam's involvment in the slaying of Malcolm X? | ||
| N. Bonaparte Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 2309 Registered: 5-2001 |
Any comments to Spanish Inquisitor or the other voices of reason, bklyntonj? I didn't paint anyone with a broad brush. LF does his own broad painting. You either didn't read a word I or others have said or you have bigger blinders on than I thought. As I said at the outset, go after the people with power who are promoting a culture which is perhaps antithetical to any group's self-image. As soon as you label that group white, black or Jewish I have every right to call you racist or antisemitic, respectively. This thread has already morphed somewhat. The issue is that a film was shown that depicted the million man march, a laudable event. If it implied that Louis Farrakhan did it by himself and therefore elevated him to a pedestal he in no way deserves because of his BLATANT ANTI-SEMITISM then that is as unbalanced as Fox News. If you can't see it, too bad. Shall I start to recount anecdotes about students questioning why we're still studying the holocaust? I'm better than that and will work behind the scenes for equality and lack of prejudice for all. | ||
| aquaman Supporter Username: Aquaman Post Number: 842 Registered: 8-2001 |
You go Wenderful! "I'm better than that and will work behind the scenes for equality and lack of prejudice for all." Allow me to add a companion quote from the late great Malcolm X: "I for one will join with anyone, I don’t care what color you are, as long as you want to change this miserable condition that exists on this earth." | ||
| Wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 2311 Registered: 5-2001 |
Thanks aquaman. | ||
| breal Citizen Username: Breal Post Number: 839 Registered: 6-2002 |
Farrakhan's deal, as was Hitler's, is giving people one monolithic "enemy" to blame. Someone whose fault all their problems must be. As a strategy, it's as old as sin. He even picked the same "someone" as enemy that Hitler did. He couldn't very well have chosen the Tutsis, I guess. Or the Kurds. Too far away, and already taken. So he went with the old standby. I hope CHS history teachers will inform students about the strategy of demonizing an "other" to gain followers. It would be a good history and current events lesson. | ||
| efull Citizen Username: Efull Post Number: 3 Registered: 4-2006 |
Bob K, once again! THIS FILM WAS NOT THE ORIGINAL FILM TO BE SHOWN! The film Mrs. Pollack said no to was the War on Peace- about the Black panthers and hip hop. ffof... I happen to know Ms. Taylor quite well and if she knew that you were saying that she teaches the history slavery and what students were coming away with was that AA sold one another- she would be livid. You must be kidding! Surely, somewhere there is a history book waiting to tell you that only accounts for a small piece of what happened. She also teaches about Nzinga who cut off her right breast to fight of the Portuguese and save her people. Let's not go there, because at the same time I saw a film (documentary) about Jews who hid that they were Jewish to keep from going to the concentration camps. Is that the whole story of the holocaust or a small detail? That does not EVER excuse what was done to those people, or do we say that is not indicative of the courage and pride shown by the vast majority who displayed their stars of David with pride in face of their oppressor ? This singular short tart claim, that "We sold each other into slavery", has maintained in a state of continual flux our historical basis for Black-on-Black self love and mutual cooperation at the level of Class. Even if it is true (without further clarification) that we sold each other into slavery, this should not absolve Whites of their responsibility in the subjugation. After all who profited? We did not seek to sell captives to the Whites as an original act. Hollywood s favorite is showing Blacks capturing Blacks into slavery, as if this was the only way capture occurred. There are a number of ways in which capture occurred. Let s dig a little deeper into this issue before we make ignorant blatant statements. | ||
| kathleen Citizen Username: Symbolic Post Number: 481 Registered: 3-2005 |
I'll probably live to regret this post, but I think Ms. Pollack misspoke when she equated Louis Farrakhan to Hitler, and the extent to which she misspoke is rather important, given her position. Louis Farrakhan is more like Michael Moore than he is Hitler. He's more like Pat Robertson or Mel Gibson He's more like any other ex-tap dancer and showbiz loving character who goes into politics or religion in search of an admiring audience and a guilt-ridden chance to "make a difference." The problem with likening Louis Farrakhan to Hitler is that it trivializes Hitler. If there is such a thing as "playing the race card" (that miserable cliche uttered by people who just want to admire the sound of their own voices) then there can also be something called "playing the Holocaust card" to cause a distraction. Just the other day I went to the movies to see Dave Chappelle's Block Party (quite a fun movie, featuring CHS's own Lauryn Hill!), and in that movie Wyclef Jean makes an impassioned speech to young African Americans to not blame white people but to demand better opportunties: better libraries, better schools. The kids in the movie look quite ready to embrace that path. If you sanctify one "people's" grievance, you simply must allow other "peoples" grievance too, lest you be quite accurately accused of double standards and hypocrisy. History has been cruel beyond description to both Jews and African Americans. The majority culture owes a reassurance to both groups for protection and redress. Wise people will recognize that any "peoples" with a grievance are going to cut those who articulate THEIR grievance some slack. Sure, I've been taken aback by the extent to which some Jews rationalize the hate driven politics of some "leaders", and I've been taken aback by the extent to which some African Americans rationalize the hate-driven politics of their "leaders." But I fully understand the injury that sets the emotional stage for cutting such slack and being defensive about it. You don't betray the people who stand up for you in the face of oppression. African Americans have suffered an equally grievous injury to that of Jews. Those who speak the truth about these injuries in the face of majoritarian denial are understandably defended by those who still feel that more injury is possible. Anyway, Louis Farrakhan is not the equivalent of Hitler. I expect the intellectual guides of CHS to be able to discern the difference and to teach students how to discern the difference. That isn't an "elective." It cuts to the heart of what it means to be an educated person. Actually, the people I keep my eye on are not the preening celebrity blowhards who exploit the aggrieved because they like being "leaders." I keep my eye on the cool and boring characters who tell you that they've got science and data that proves some groups of people are not quite as good for the community as others. Historically, they are the real threat. But maybe that's just my paranoia. | ||
| ffof Citizen Username: Ffof Post Number: 4656 Registered: 5-2001  |
efull- what are you blowing your stack for. I think we all know it's an involved complicated history. glock's post put words into my mouth, but did I go nuts? And all this accusation about whites (all whites?) wanting to absolve their responsibility? Another broad brush. Anyhow, I'd like to just move on thank you very much. We all, as Americans, are truly fortunate people. See yall. I'm on vaca. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 535 Registered: 7-2005  |
White people always want to move on when it comes to the issue of race. They want to forget. "This country is a nation of thieves. It has stole everything it has, beginning with black people, beginning with black people." | ||
| Sandi and Paul Citizen Username: Momsandi Post Number: 80 Registered: 10-2005 |
This thread has gotten totally away from the films and the MLK assembly. Now we have two minorities bickering over who is the most misunderstood and downtrodden. Yes, Farakhan is anti-semitic. Yes, Farakhan is a leader who has helped AA men and his people. There are only a few leaders who seem superhuman and don't have human frailties and prejudices - Gandhi and Mother Theresa are two of those. The rest, including all of the presidents, have skeletons in their closets or character defects. But they are still leaders. Unless the films in question had anti-semitic material in them, this thread should be put to bed. | ||
| jersey Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 456 Registered: 1-2006  |
Farrakhan is an imperfect voice for Black America. But he is promoting positive things. Brklyntonj and Glock like what they hear that's good and forgive what they probably wouldn't say themselves. Why should a discussion about Black American History include Jews? It's just distracting. I hear/read what you're saying about hollywood, but it's not THE issue. I"m fine with Farrakhan being taught completely. The facts are the facts. That's what we teach. Shouldn't the students be having this debate? J.B. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 536 Registered: 7-2005 |
I never said I supported Farrakhan...actually quite the opposite. | ||
| Nohero Supporter Username: Nohero Post Number: 5320 Registered: 10-1999  |
Well, I can agree that the discussion here is irrelevant to the student films. The assembly has been shown on local cable. The student film is not a tribute to Farrakhan. | ||
| jersey Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 462 Registered: 1-2006 |
Glock, I came late to this discussion. It's three pages long. I didn't read all of your posts. I apologize for considering you a Farrakhan supporter. J.B. | ||
| Scully Citizen Username: Scully Post Number: 302 Registered: 8-2005 |
Glock: "This country is a nation of thieves. It has stole everything it has, beginning with black people, beginning with black people." How about Native Americans? Maybe 'continuing'... Who is the quote from? | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 537 Registered: 7-2005 |
It didn't steal native americans...it stole their land...and I guess you're right but that doesn't make for a very powerful speech. http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/stokelycarmichaelblackpower.html | ||
| bottomline Citizen Username: Bottomline Post Number: 410 Registered: 8-2003 |
"White people always want to move on when it comes to the issue of race." [Emphasis added] Glock, Words like "always" sap your credibility and undermine your message. Do you choose such words deliberately, or do they just come tumbling out because you are so excited when posting on MOL? If a white person used the same word to describe the behavior of another racial group, he/she would be rightly criticized for stereotyping. | ||
| bklyntonj Citizen Username: Bklyntonj Post Number: 643 Registered: 7-2003 |
Excuse my absence, I was busy doing something primitive, enjoying the outdoors with nothing technical involved (unless you include riding a bike with my daughter a modern vehicle). Actually, this conversation is very pertinent to CHS's and society's situation. My daughter told me parents were out protesting Friday morning and one of the issues was the use of Farrakhan in the film. Methods to success may not be understood by all but that doesn't mean they can't be effective. My point being, all of these comments said related to Farrakhan, name one follower of Farrakhan who isn't living a moral, respectful life? Name one who has disrespected any Jew or white person? My point is, this man you're trashing develops more upstanding, law-abiding black people than you give him credit for. You would never have to worry about someone in the NOI robbing your house, stealing your car, disrespecting you verbally. They're just not taught such nonsense. One of his most loyal followers, Khalid Muhammad broke the laws and he was ousted. Glock is a very intelligent young man, he along with others on this post know their historyand I commend them for that. And believe me, I know mine. What person in their right mind wants to concentrate on the negative parts of their history? We all have a bright and a dark side to our history. Let me ask another question, can we all have this same open conversation in person? | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1528 Registered: 9-2004  |
2. The film on the Million Man March- showed maybe all of ten seconds of Louis Farrakhan. He was by no means the focus. “I think that HS kids are smart enough to view a documentary that refers to him and be able to process their thoughts.” Yet, folks are arguing the issue of Farrakhan as if HE was the FOCUS of the student’s film. As the above poster said, kids these days are "smart enough" to decide on their own thoughts of Farrakhan. efull, Thank you for your honest opinion since you were INVOLVED and had a first-hand look on this whole issues of the films in question. the article? As far as the CHS having 1600 kids in the school during the walk-out, my senior said out of 29 kids in his class, only 3 others showed-up. Either kids stayed home and others walked-out. Pollack had the NERVE to use reverse racism for her demise? When in fact, a good majority of CHS students Black, White, Latina et al, do not think HIGHLY of her. She has caused a great deal of disruption, divisiveness, lack of leadership and now RESPECT from the CHS community. How long do OUR students have to suffer? I wish she would STOP using the “student are being manipulated by adults” act. Students (as witness by some posting on MOL) have witness Pollack in-action. Time for change folks. WE as a community deserve BETTER than this! | ||
| The Notorious S.L.K. Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1165 Registered: 10-2005 |
Glock said: "White people always want to move on when it comes to the issue of race." I can't speak for all "white people" but I sure do. Can't it be argued that a segment of the black population dwell on the subject of race too much? Label me what you will but the most frustrating thing in life for me is to finally have a black man and a white man on equal footing only to have the former scream racism everytime something doesn't go his way. I understand (as best my white existence can)the struggles black america endures but my positive side also notices the vast amount of progress made. There is still a ways to go, but I fimrly believe that the race card only hold back the progress of Black America (unless the claim is legitimate of course). Morgan Freeman said it best recently (thank you Morgan): NEW YORK - Morgan Freeman says the concept of a month dedicated to black history is "ridiculous." "You're going to relegate my history to a month?" the 68-year-old actor says in an interview on CBS' "60 Minutes" to air Sunday (7 p.m. EST). "I don't want a black history month. Black history is American history." Black History Month has roots in historian Carter G. Woodson's Negro History Week, which he designated in 1926 as the second week in February to mark the birthdays of Frederick Douglass and Abraham Lincoln. Woodson said he hoped the week could one day be eliminated — when black history would become fundamental to American history. Freeman notes there is no "white history month," and says the only way to get rid of racism is to "stop talking about it." The actor says he believes the labels "black" and "white" are an obstacle to beating racism. "I am going to stop calling you a white man and I'm going to ask you to stop calling me a black man," Freeman says. Freeman received Oscar nominations for his roles in 1987's "Street Smart," 1989's "Driving Miss Daisy" and 1994's "The Shawshank Redemption." He finally won earlier this year for "Million Dollar Baby. Both the KKK and Farrakhan can speak all they want for all I care, even though they are both batty in my book. They have every right to do so...but no one ever said one has to listen to them. I can understand bklyntonj's argument about Farrakhan having a positive influence on the black population to a point. But my patience stops when he says asinine things like the US Govt. deliberately blew up the NO levee's to kill all the black people.... -SLK | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 541 Registered: 7-2005 |
"but the most frustrating thing in life for me is to finally have a black man and a white man on equal footing only to have the former scream racism everytime something doesn't go his way. " Blacks and whites are not on equal footing in this country. Blacks make up roughly 12.3% of the population (2000 US census) but are 46% of the incarcerated population. Equal footing..pffft. | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1529 Registered: 9-2004 |
"You're going to relegate my history to a month?" And the shortest month at that!  Seriously tho, recognizing Black History should be year-round. | ||
| The Notorious S.L.K. Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1166 Registered: 10-2005 |
Glock- Then maybe they need to stop going to jail? I really don't want to fight about this. If you wish to dwell on only the negative aspects of black America, go right ahead, Malcom. Being close to 40, I have seen alot of progress made over the years. And then you wonder why Whites want to move along on the topic. You take one little tibit (sp) out of my entire post and jump all over it.... -SLK | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 341 Registered: 1-2006 |
There is a Black victim majority also. Kids killing kids, Bloods, Crips wiping out peace and each other in Newark. Saturday night, on Long Island, a 14 year old girl shot while in her house at a party. Shot by a youth in her backyard. Oh, it was an accident. What was the punk doing with a gun in the first place? What about disfunctional messages from hip hop, rap, gangster looks, bling-bling, sports above education, pimp my ride, thousand dollar rims, serial out of wedlock impregnations. When visiting S.O. Middle a few years ago, the filth spewing from some majority students's mouths in the hallway left me with the impression they heard this somewhere else, often enough to learn it well, and that they could hold their own with the high school drop-out South Brooklyn longshoreman of a generation ago. Am I wrong to point this out, because of my skin color, or the content of my character? jd | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 542 Registered: 7-2005 |
Alright S.L.K. you go to Camden, or Newark, or Jersey City...and tell black people to "Stop going to jail". | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1078 Registered: 10-2004  |
bklyn, In this case I cannot agree with you. The NOI is not a benevolent association. I am not going to do this research you asked for but another on the thread asked about the assassination of Malcomn X. Do you believe that the NOI had nothing to do with it? No, I believe that while the NOI may be doing a great many things that can be considered good, including teaching life skills and providing avenues for black people to grow and prosper in some cases, I also believe that they are no panacea for the social ills of our nation nor are they the answer to the troubles of poverty and racism. Farakahn himself is a very rational and dangerous person. On one hand he can offer structure and hope and a way to live and improve oneself and on the other he often times makes dangerous and callous statements about both white people in general and Jews in particular. In the jewish community I believe you will find racism directed at blacks the same way you will find racism in the black community directed at jews. - Despite Glocks dictionary and whether prejudice is different then racism. However I am unaware of any book being sold by the anti-defamation league that deliberately depicts blacks as evil. Likewise I echo ffof (I think) who wanted to remind Glock about the role of the Jews in the civil rights movement. The jewish people were a great ally and the relationship of blacks and jews as friends has been brushed under a rug and hidden. That is a part of recent black history that should not be forgotten because it is very real, tangible proof that what Farakhan says about 'Jews' is untrue. Making apologies for that aspect of Farakhan and his organization ignores truth. Criticizing Israel and its policies does not make anyone anti-semitic. Israel needs to be criticized and its policies need to be adjusted as do our American policies, as do Palestinian policies etc. That is not anti semitic its realistic and human. If that were Farakhans position, and as intelligent as he is he can certainly make himself clear, then we would not be having this discussion. The fact is that is not what his position is. He changes tunes as often as Bush and his administration do in order to confuse and keep the power base that he has. The black community has better leaders. Far better. | ||
| The Notorious S.L.K. Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1167 Registered: 10-2005 |
Joel- Of course you should point this out. My social worker wife points this out all the time and she has been in the worst schools in brooklyn. According to her it is a white thing to be educated. I'll admit that I like some RAP (not Hip-Hop), but talk about a phenomena dragging a young population down. It all about being tough, from wearing those silly doo-rags (they remind of the KKK...creepy)to wearing winter clothes in 70 degree weather. Most of these kids don't realize that all these tough gangsters is just a marketing ploy. A few years ago I met a gay black rapper who said his record company wanted him to change his image/style to be all gangsta...so he did it... Rap sold out long ago...now it is hip hop.... -SLK | ||
| The Notorious S.L.K. Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1168 Registered: 10-2005 |
Glock, Why do I need to go there to point out the obvious? Do you want to come with me with me to my old Brooklyn hood...let's talk to some people there... Life isn't too hard to figure out Glock, but stop making excuses for your brothers just because they are black. -SLK PS I have been to all the places you have mentioned multiple times, am I suppose to be scared? | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 543 Registered: 7-2005 |
You obviously don't listen to Paris, Dead Prez, or The Coup. No. But you seem to be ignorant of the fact that the statistic I mentioned is the result of a well calculated social-ill. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1079 Registered: 10-2004 |
SLK - Rap is a part of Hip Hop and always has been. Your statement made no sense. In fact hiphop, rap and all the capitalism associated with it today has not 'brought down a young population'. These young folks today are no different then the young folks of any generation. They wear the clothes, hair styles and listen to the music of their generation. There is nothing 'creepy' about it. Your arguments about clothing are borderline if not overtly racist. I think you sell these 'kids' short if you think they dont know who is real and who isnt. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 544 Registered: 7-2005 |
"Moving out of the ghetto 'cus it troubles you. Making payments on a B-M-Double-U" -Too Short S.L.K. it sounds to me like the only thing 'hood' about you is the one you have pulled over your eyes. You moved out...and now you condemn the people that live there. | ||
| frannyfree Citizen Username: Frannyfree Post Number: 184 Registered: 1-2004 |
I think you give kids too much credit if you think they aren't being influenced. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 545 Registered: 7-2005 |
He never said they weren't. He just said it's normal for kids to be influenced by the culture of their time. | ||
| The Notorious S.L.K. Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1169 Registered: 10-2005 |
Ahhhhh, the racist accusation...that didn't take long at all...was anyone timing that? Hoops, I never said rap and hip hop weren't related. And if you think it is racist because I think it is silly for someone to wear a winter coat in 70 degree weather then you sure have a warped perception on things. Glock, I never said there were NO intelligent, postive rappers but none of the can ever touch Public Enemy (no matter how much I disagree with the latter's politics).  -SLK | ||
| The Notorious S.L.K. Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1170 Registered: 10-2005 |
Glock, please define the "social-ill" you speak of.... | ||
| mem Citizen Username: Mem Post Number: 5999 Registered: 5-2001  |
"this should not absolve Whites of their responsibility in the subjugation." "Whites"? Which ones? Broad, broad brush here. No one in my family history, as well as that of the vast majority of Americans, was involved in slavery. This argument is getting very old. It's just like saying all blacks are theives, murderers and rapists. "Blacks make up roughly 12.3% of the population (2000 US census) but are 46% of the incarcerated population. Equal footing..pffft." Are these prisoners randomly being thrown in jail by "whites" then? Morgan Freeman is the best. | ||
| Buzzsaw Citizen Username: Buzzsaw Post Number: 4419 Registered: 5-2001  |
I think bklyntonj has an important point - "can we all have this same open conversation in person?" I wonder too. | ||
| The Notorious S.L.K. Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1171 Registered: 10-2005 |
"This argument is getting very old..." Glock, Mem said it best (above). This is why "whites" want to move on. With Tiger on the golf course, Oprah on TV and Powell/Rice in high political offices, this is becoming a mute point, and rightfully so. Blaming the system is just an excuse for not stepping up to the plate of life. Besides, where was it written that whites have such easy lives? I bet we have some stories to share... -SLK | ||
| The Notorious S.L.K. Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1172 Registered: 10-2005 |
Buzzsaw, I am willing, anyone else? Tell me where and when.... -SLK |
