| Author | Message | ||
     tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 4217 Registered: 12-2001  |
Blkyntonj, Obviously Katrina has been debated to death. Equally obviously, there was a failure to plan at all levels. But, at the end of the day, the State of Lousiana had the resources to prevent the Superdome debacle and failed. I imagine that if they had put Lt. Gen. Honore on the job sooner and with better instructions, he would have had National Guard trucks and high-ground-clearance flat bed trucks rolling in on Tuesday morning to evacuate people and bring in supplies. But instead, we had Mayor Nagin, Governor Blanco and President Bush, all supposedly in charge of something, evidently trying to figure out who was in charge. In any case, it was a CF, not racism. | ||
| The Notorious S.L.K. Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1224 Registered: 10-2005 |
anon- If someone is walking down a railroad track with an on coming train and he/she gets hit are you going to blame the train? I see it too often where everyone/everything is blamed except for for the actual culprit. Example, this week's Time magazine has a story entitled "Dropout Nation" about an alleged dropout crisis in the US. Predictably The author of the article blamed everything EXCEPT for the actual dropouts who gave lame excuses for dropping out. They were bored. They weren't pushed hard enough. The rich kids were treated better then them, etc. Now they find themselves in low wage paying, dead end jobs. But it is not their fault... Give me a break... -SLK | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 613 Registered: 7-2005  |
Lydia... If you mean a woman getting raped by a man is the same as white imperialism/white power raping the people of this nation and the rest of the world...i guess you're right. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 614 Registered: 7-2005 |
The way I see it though...women always complain about a "Glass ceiling" and how they can't move upp in corporations...that sucks and all ...but black people can't even get INTO the corporations | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2619 Registered: 9-2003  |
Glock 17, you're wrong -- unless you're talking about the very few positions a the top. Black people (men and women) work in corporations, as do White women. In management, and senior management. And not just in sideline roles in HR and facilities. The question is really can they make it to absolute top, and what does it take. Is it just merit,and the long gestation in senior positions? Is it willingness to work wretched hours that that are utterly family unfriendly? Or, is there a good measure of cronyism? I certainly still see good ol' boy cliques at the top that aren't fond of bringing in people who are different from them, whether White women, Black men, Black women. But I am not so knee-jerk willing to say it's a glass ceiling based on gender and race alone as I once was. And there aren't so many of those tippety top positons and the price is not one many are willing to pay. | ||
| Sherlock Citizen Username: Sherlock Post Number: 47 Registered: 5-2005 |
How many of you have been knocked back on your ••• poor? How many of you have had two or even three jobs, paying minimum wage and trying to raise a family? Where the need to bring in money and have the 3 jobs keeps you from being able to aquire skills so that you could earn more money, and the reason you find yourself in this position in the first place is because you were thevictimeof a substandard education? THat is instituitional and not, in this country an isolated incident. How about the working poor? Working poor, not lazy poor, not if they only tried harder poor. that is the reality of this country for a lot of people. and how about the fact that the governments in LA have been saying the levees need work for decades? How abou the fact that in a simulation just weeks before katrina everything that actually ended up happening, also happened in the simulation? How about the fact that the presidents brother and fellow republican got everything he needed when he needed it and a democratic governor got squat? that's way institutional. | ||
| The Notorious S.L.K. Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1228 Registered: 10-2005 |
Glock 17- Your last comment about blacks not being able to work for corporation truly illustrates your young mind. Do you wish to come to work with me one day? You may learn a thing or two. You may be shocked to find all kinds of different colored folks working in my office. And obviously you paid no mind to my post about diversity (see above). So it must be entirely the corporations fault, right? Yup, I see alot of the bro's hanging on the corners or Irvington and Newark just brushing up their resumes.... Stop playing your whiny, victimhood politics. This is what many non-blacks find tiresome. It doesn't help your cause one bit and only makes you look weak and foolish. -SLK | ||
| Gregor Samsa Citizen Username: Oldsctls67 Post Number: 497 Registered: 11-2002  |
Sherlock, have you? I feel a tear coming on... | ||
| Wendyn Supporter Username: Wendyn Post Number: 2934 Registered: 9-2002  |
Sherlock, I'm not understanding your use of the word "institutional". So I looked it up. in·sti·tu·tion·al adj. Of or relating to an institution or institutions. Organized as or forming an institution: institutional religion. Characteristic or suggestive of an institution, especially in being uniform, dull, or unimaginative: institutional furniture; a pale institutional green. Of or relating to the principles or institutes of a subject such as law. relating to or constituting or involving an institution; "institutional policy" organized as or forming an institution; "institutional religion" So are you saying that you believe there are laws that are preventing poor people and african americans from succeeding? If so can you show me the laws? There is ignorance and racism everywhere. It is extremely hard for poor people to break out of the cycle of being poor because they are discriminated against. But I don't think that qualifies as "institutional". Leveling IS institutional. I don't think it is in and of itself racist or bias. I do think that if someone is perceived to be less intelligent or capable it could be because of race, gender, religious persuasion or income level. However, some people simply ARE smarter and/or harder working than others. And is it fair to the struggling kids to put them in a class with brainiacs? How would you feel being one of the "stupid" kids in class? I have mixed feelings about leveling. I do think kids can get stuck in tracks that aren't challenging. I also think that sometimes it is easier to learn when you are with people who need similar learning structure. In addition, if a teacher has a bias (racial or otherwise) when suggesting a level for a student, won't that teacher have a bias teaching in an unleveled class as well? So which is easier, teaching the teachers to assign and evaluate levels accurately and without bias? Or teaching the teachers to teach without bias in an unlevelled environment? | ||
| tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 4218 Registered: 12-2001 |
Sherlock, I think we all agree that is sucks to be poor and you don't get second chances when you are poor. However, there is no institutional conspiracy to keep the poor poor and to keep a disproportionate number of blacks poor. The good fortune I have enjoyed in my life was not made possible by keeping the poor poor and by exploiting slave labor in the past. I would argue that the legacy of slavery in particular and poverty in general, far from benefitting the wealthy, makes us all poorer. So, talk about solutions, but spare me the victimhood and institutional conspiracy ranting.. You started to saying something interesting in an earlier post on levelling, but have since returned to ranting. Finally, the Katrina debacle was not institutional neglect of the poor or some Republican plot. If Florida was hit by Hurricane Andrew last year and that was the first bad hurricane in the last forty years, it would have been a circus. The "I told you so" critics will be out in force. If the New Madrid Fault ruptures, as scientists predict it will someday, the initial relief efforts will be a circus. The "I told you so" critics will be out in force. If the San Andreas Fault ruptures producing a 9.0 earthquake, the initial relief efforts will be a circus. And, the "I told you so" critics will be out in force. | ||
| jersey Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 496 Registered: 1-2006  |
Sherlock, Your post of April 13th 4:22 finally states what I think your point was in starting this thread. Why did it take two pages to get there? Your statement (not your original question) that the leveling amounts to something "institutional" is undeniable. Racist? I don't know. However, holding all students to the same standards seems like a good idea. What was going on when leveling was designed? I'm sure some students weren't succeeding in reaching the high expectations. You're solution seems to be, better teachers will just fix the problem. I worry that that is too simple and would be doomed to fail. It'll be the same teachers, struggling with multiple level class preparations... J.B. | ||
| bklyntonj Citizen Username: Bklyntonj Post Number: 662 Registered: 7-2003 |
ok tjohn, if what you're saying is true, how do you feel about the way the refugees, oops evacuees are being handled now? No home to go back to, getting kicked out of shelters and hotels, given $1000 and told to go find an apartment with no job... Is it right to just leave them to fend for themselves? There's still parents who can't find their children, loved ones who can't locate their family. Not because they've passed away but because they were taken to a different location. And these are not people who were jobless or on welfare either. Where's the humanity in this? | ||
| Kibbegirl Citizen Username: Kibbegirl Post Number: 491 Registered: 5-2003 |
I'll give you all an example of "institutional racism". Mr. Kibbegirl says it best: the music industry is the last bastion of racial segregation when it comes to the corporate aspect of the industry. Mr. Kibbegirl is a wonderful earner, but his white counterpart, with the same title as Mr. Kibbegirl, and the same education background, but with significantly less responsibility, earns several thousand more than Mr. Kibbegirl. When you go into any music company USA, you'll know before even asking which is the "pop" side and which is the "urban" side. The majority of the whites, sans a few, work the "pop" side of the floor and the majority of the blacks, sans a few, work the "urban" side of the floor. It's quite laughable and sad. It's extremely hard for a black executive at a record company to "cross over" to the pop music side as it's highly regarded a "white's only" division. But, I've met many white executives over the years who were heads of urban music divisions. So although Mr. Kibbegirl is a top executive at a major label, it's still a punch in the stomach to know that the guy two doors down not only has less responsibility, but earning more in the process. | ||
| tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 4219 Registered: 12-2001 |
Bklyntonj, The followup to Katrina is a national disgrace. I am sure you can find somebody to argue otherwise, but not me. With regard to Katrina refugees, a hard decision has to be made to rebuild or not rebuild (I know, I know, even that decision carries racial baggage). If they rebuild in Lousiana, they had better do it right in anticipation of future Cat V hurricanes and rising sea levels from global warming. I would expect to see a lot of stilt towns just like Long Beach Island. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 617 Registered: 7-2005 |
SLK... I will do as I please. | ||
| Kibbegirl Citizen Username: Kibbegirl Post Number: 493 Registered: 5-2003 |
Please stop calling the Katrina victims "refugees". They are not from another land -- they are all Americans! CNN started that "refugee" b.s. and it's just stupid! | ||
| bklyntonj Citizen Username: Bklyntonj Post Number: 663 Registered: 7-2003 |
Exactly Kibblegirl, I was being sarcastic. I also agree with you re: music industry. It ties into what I said in the MLK thread. It also explains why Mr. Kibblegirl will not go but so far within that industry. Myself included. | ||
| The Notorious S.L.K. Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1234 Registered: 10-2005 |
Glock- Exactly. Great attitude. Go through life thinking the black race has no chance in coporate america even though the truth says otherwise. Why anyone would go through life being a victim is beyond me. Especially if you are in fact one. You have alot to learn. The funny thing is you are not willing too... -SLK | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 618 Registered: 7-2005 |
And I'm sure you know.  | ||
| catmanjac Citizen Username: Catmanjac Post Number: 134 Registered: 2-2004  |
Glock-- just for you-- http://release.theplatform.com/content.select?pid=EX_6PuwELuJWKtKomP81MxIl4teo44 1k&UserName=Unknown | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 621 Registered: 7-2005 |
That's what happens when you bring a loaded Glock to a gun saftey demonstration...what makes them so useful in tactical situations is that there are no user-engaged safeties on the gun. The safety is the user itself. god...that guy was an idiot | ||
| Flimbro Citizen Username: Flimbro Post Number: 29 Registered: 6-2005 |
SLK to the rescue! Finally a man with answers... The truth says otherwise? What does the truth say? What can we do to throw these shackles of racism off our backs? You mentioned attitude- is a sunny disposition the secret- less scowling more smiles? More pep in our step- less glide in our stride? Scrotis my man, seriously, is it those pesky doo rags- would you prefer Red Sox baseball caps? Is it the loud car radios- we'll turn them down. I would hate to think that the only thing between me and equality is a loud Jay Z track! What about the rims? I've always suspected the rims- is that it? Is it the spinners man? Be honest now. Or maybe it's the propensity to wear bubble jackets in the springtime? Is that it- white folks don't like bubble jackets? Please- tell us what to do! We're all poised to make the leap to true citizenship! Teach! | ||
| catmanjac Citizen Username: Catmanjac Post Number: 135 Registered: 2-2004 |
And he's suing!?! Imagine that! I used to read a magazine that had the dumb crook award of the month... this guy is the dumb cop (DEA) award of the year! Never assume a gun is unloaded (especially when you leave one in the chamber), and never point a gun at anything you don't intend to shoot, including your foot. And even after injuring himself, he continues to give his demonstration. But all gun owners do eventually have some sort of accident. A .25 fell out of my coat pocket when I bent down once, hit the floor and fired. Almost ruined a good pair of boots! Found the round in the wall a few inches away from where my leg was... | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 622 Registered: 7-2005 |
Handguns are so dangerous...he probably had his finger inside the trigger guard DUR DUR DURRRR | ||
| Sherlock Citizen Username: Sherlock Post Number: 48 Registered: 5-2005 |
someone who gets it help me. It has been two pages and I don't really feel I'm makingheadway. Jersey boy, it is not leveling that is my focus, I simply used it to illustrate "instituitional racism" the institution couldn't be bias at all if all the criteria for it were objective. Where ever you have a system, instution, hierarchy, where movement requires in part or in whole a human beings subjective judgement it becomes subject to bias. for the purpose of this thread, racist. and it is really easy to make it look like something other than racist, white people do it all the time. I know, I am white. I know that often if I am going to look for an apartment in any predominately white area in New Jersey, and probably another state, and I am exactly as good in all areas as a black renter, I will get the apartment. And I will be told, oh we liked you or something else as riduculous. And that person and I will both know I got it because I am white. but we will never talk about it, because than we might not feel good about that. that is instituinal racism. got it? | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 13665 Registered: 1-2003  |
By wikipedia's definition (or really, Stokely Carmichael's), you are correct. tjohn, it doesn't have to be a conspiracy to be true. People don't usually get together in a room and say, "let's keep the poor poor" or anything like that. | ||
| Lydia Supporter Username: Lydial Post Number: 1780 Registered: 5-2001 |
Tom, I think people do get together and say it in other words - "Let's keep profits high and keep the shareholders happy, let's minimize our maximum line, let's keep the unions out and keep our workers under 35 hours a week, keep benefits to a minimum...etc" Reading yet another book about Wal-mart and it's influence on American and International economics that is curling my hair. (Wal-Mart - The Face of 21st C. Capitalism) Either our government picks up the slack or the private sector does. 401K's and health insurance are a pipe dream for millions of working Americans, if the working poor goes down the tubes, the middle class and even upper-middle will follow them in one or two generations. | ||
| tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 4221 Registered: 12-2001 |
"tjohn, it doesn't have to be a conspiracy to be true. People don't usually get together in a room and say, "let's keep the poor poor" or anything like that. " Oh my. This is worse than I thought. Now I get it. We have institutional racism and conspiracies, but the conspirators communicate telepathically and there is no written record of the institutional racism. It's brilliant really. So, now some people believe in God. Some people believe in institutional racism. Some people believe in reincarnation. | ||
| Stevef Citizen Username: Stevef Post Number: 201 Registered: 5-2005  |
The same people who maintain institutional racism also have possession of the Holy Grail and make crop circles. | ||
| The Notorious S.L.K. Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1238 Registered: 10-2005 |
Glokc 17- Know what? -SLK | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 628 Registered: 7-2005 |
You act like you know my state of mind, course of action, current actions, past, present, and future everytime you post. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 13669 Registered: 1-2003 |
tjohn, I never knew you to put words into people's mouths. | ||
| tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 4223 Registered: 12-2001 |
I have my moments. Anyway, I find this constant yammering about institutional racism to be tedious and not part of any solution. I don't doubt that codified racism still exists in places, but the people who implemented leveling in SOMSD are most certainly not racists. Now, if leveling needs to be reviewed, modified or ended, that is fine, but when people insist upon framing the issue in terms of some racist conspiracy, you lose my support. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 629 Registered: 7-2005 |
Leveling can easily be filed next to redlining. | ||
| Lester Jacobs Citizen Username: Lester Post Number: 109 Registered: 10-2005 |
Hmm, maybe I'm in the minority, but I have seen a couple black men (both from Africa) become millionaires at my Firm. Since we are a small company we can hire people who are actually qualified instead of being forced to hire minorities because of affirmative action. The result has been that we hire very smart people, but still have a fair amount of diversity. In fact I would venture to guess that there are a slight majority of Indians and Asians at my company. | ||
| breal Citizen Username: Breal Post Number: 842 Registered: 6-2002 |
Kibbegirl--At least you got to go to Gorillz Live at the Apollo. The pop guys were probably at a Jesse McCarthy concert. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 635 Registered: 7-2005 |
Lester...congrats 2 black people succeeded...once again...thats 2 ...doesnt prove equal footing its far too nice to stay in and argue this...going outside to play frisbee and ride a bike. | ||
| The Notorious S.L.K. Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1242 Registered: 10-2005 |
Glock 17- Like you do to me and everyon else that has a different opinion from you? -SLK | ||
| Flimbro Citizen Username: Flimbro Post Number: 30 Registered: 6-2005 |
Lester- I bet there's a good chance that the two millionaire Africans enriched your firm on the way to becoming millionaires. See what a little diversity will do? Now what would happen if your firm took the time to hire more Africans or African Americans whose skill sets were routinely overlooked by other employers? Why in no time you all might be millionaires and you'd be online from your sloop in the Carribbean. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 13671 Registered: 1-2003 |
tjohn, I see codified racism and institutional racism as different things. |
