| Author | Message | ||
     Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 658 Registered: 7-2005  |
Integration itself is a glaring example of racism. | ||
| Wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 2369 Registered: 5-2001 |
It seems to me that there's no reason to think aquaman did not read the entire thread. Perhaps you're prejudging and are being anti-aquaman. In any event, I believe this thread is less of a conversation than your stream of consciousness and your apparent inability to believe that others may have different perceptions and thoughts than you. Some of us never had the "My Maplewood is going downhill" thoughts and therefore didn't have to do the type of soul searching you apparently are sharing with us ad nauseum. Tjohn, you, my dear, have the patience of a saint. | ||
| Aquaman Supporter Username: Aquaman Post Number: 862 Registered: 8-2001  |
Wendy, Bless you my dear, you said it better than I ever could of, and thank you mentioning Tjohn, who has held his own in an increasingly ridiculous pity-party thread. I don't agree with Sherlock and Glock 17 and that doesn't make me racist. Sher and Glock feed on being self-appointed victims and adore stirring up so-called racism in unfamiliar places. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 659 Registered: 7-2005 |
Aquaman you are wrong. I'm not a victim and probably never will be. I just have my eyes open and my ear to the street. | ||
| Case Citizen Username: Case Post Number: 1370 Registered: 2-2005 |
Who else remembers what it was like to be 19 years old?  | ||
| Flimbro Citizen Username: Flimbro Post Number: 35 Registered: 6-2005 |
Yeah I do and it was wonderful and dangerous. I yelled at whoever I felt like yelling at whenever I felt like yelling was in order. I spoke my mind and held my ground for what I thought was correct until I somebody proved otherwise. As for this kid, I wish him the best because he doesn't back down from a challenge. Hopefully he's as tough in the real world where it's not as easy. He's exactly what's needed- believe that. | ||
| Flimbro Citizen Username: Flimbro Post Number: 36 Registered: 6-2005 |
For the rest of you: Does one person's experience and apparent honesty make you all that uncomfortable and hostile? Why? Even if you simply disagree with Sherlock- why not read and dismiss and move on as Tom Reingold suggested to someone earlier? What "pity party" is Sherlock hosting and on who's behalf? For what? When did Glock appoint himself a victim of anything? Unless I've missed something he's answered questions and stood up for himself. I certainly haven't cast myself as a victim. So why the vitriol? Tjohn has at least engaged in conversation and your suggestion that he is a saint means what exactly? He's to be "commended" because he's taken the time to ask questions and pose challenges? Or because he's stooped to discuss issues that you feel are unworthy of discussion? Is that beneath you because of superior intellect or does the idea of honest (or as honest as it gets online) intercourse about topics you've pushed to the back of your mind just scare the hell out of you? | ||
| jersey Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 515 Registered: 1-2006  |
I grew up in Montclair. I'm White. My parent's moved to Montclair so that I'd grow up in a more racially diverse place than they did. I got into fights with some Black kids. I dated a Black girl, and she wore my name belt (circa 1982.) I learned how to Break Dance from kids in my gym class in middle school. When we got to High School we all started to act like "adults." The White kids had parties when their parents went away and everyone got drunk. I went to some parties at Black kids' houses and there was music and dancing, but not enough booze. My White high school friends would say, "this party sucks, there's no beer." We'd leave. I've alway's thought that my parent's had a good idea, moving into an integrated area, but THEY never integrated. I became an adult with NO model for adult integration. As a consequence, Montclair High had de facto segregation. Teenagers were trying to figure out who they were, but had no adult model of integrated life. I have moved to South Orange, just as my parents moved to Montclair. I have a two year old son, who was kissed by a little Black girl at the playground when we were looking at our house. But I know that racial integration is wasted on two year olds if the adults can't hang out. I've lurked on MOL, and I signed on to participate in the conversations about race in our community. I learned alot about it growing up and being bussed in Montclair. I don't have the same "newly converted" enthusiasm that Sherlock does, but this discussion -- any discussion that allows the adults to set an example of racial harmony for our children is worth having. The old trite Racism question still challenges: Do YOU have any White friends?. Do YOU have any Black friends? That is a big part of the cure for Racism. Instututional and otherwise. J.B. | ||
| The Notorious S.L.K. Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1256 Registered: 10-2005 |
Glock 17- So what is stopping you from seeking out your culture/history now? I am telling you, with every post you make you sound more and more like your just regurgitating the Black Panters rhetoric. If you wish to go through life being a victim then it is your right. But it won't get you very far and will turn most people off. People don't like whiners Glock. Stand on your own two feet and step up to the plate. If not, shutup.... -SLK | ||
| bklyntonj Citizen Username: Bklyntonj Post Number: 669 Registered: 7-2003 |
Yo Jersey Boy, what are hobbies, play any sports, ...? If you want, we can get together with G17 & SLK.  | ||
| The Notorious S.L.K. Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1259 Registered: 10-2005 |
I am game....this white boy can jump....  -SLK | ||
| Sherlock Citizen Username: Sherlock Post Number: 63 Registered: 5-2005 |
How is talking about the bull### that exists in this world if you are a young man of color whinning? Oh yeah I get it. If you are the oppressor and your victim rails at his oppression that is whinning, right? Jersy boy, you get to be the adult role model for your child. If there is any place that makes it easy to reach out and create relationships it is here. As you said from your own experience, children are a way ahead of the curve than adults. However, we manage to infect them by the time they get to high school. If you want to be the intergration role model for your child then look at who you are hanging with. If it is monochromatic, reach out. It isn't hard here because you have virtually a rainbow, People of all different ethinicites, religions, cultures, socio-economic backgrounds. And it isn't affirmative action. It isn't I'll have 2 black friends, some brown friends, etc. It is about reaching out to people who look different from you but if you make the initial connection you might find that you in fact have a lot in common. Glock seems to have a good handle on his culture. Glock, I assume, is american. Our cultural heritage, as americans, includes the black panthers, pilgrims, native americans, angela davis, the chicago seven, MLK, malcolm x, theodore roosevelt, the civil war, the great quake, the railroads built by migrant chinese workers, slavery, anti-semitism, anti-everthing we don't like ism and a whole lot more. It is our american history and culture. It should all be embraced, not cherry picked. Some great stuff happened in this country some awful stuff happened in this country, we need to learn from all of it and we can only do that when we acknowledge it, teach it, and move on. | ||
| The Notorious S.L.K. Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1261 Registered: 10-2005 |
Sherlock- I am an oppressor? Glock is oppressed living and going to school in Maplewood? Give me a break...what is this the 1950s? If you have been paying attention Sherlock (instead of preaching) Glock has some pretty naieve perceptions on the world (no blacks allowed in corporations, etc.) that are simply not true. Do us all a favor and get over your white guilt. -SLK | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 662 Registered: 7-2005 |
I don't particuarly care for being told to shutup. You just lost any respect I had for you. Mainly because you say that I am whining...and with every post you make, you whine more about my posts. And on top of that all...you spend all of your time targeting me..which is evidence that you have clearly missed the point. A person does not have to be oppressed themselves to acknowledge inequalities and ills within society. You then proceeded to stoop down to language that is on par with street arguments (after repeatedly calling me immature)...congrats. I am no longer going to inconvenience myself by reading your increasingly rediculous posts. | ||
| Sherlock Citizen Username: Sherlock Post Number: 65 Registered: 5-2005 |
Well, it certainly looks as if you wish to suppress this conversation. It is obvious you don't want to be a part of a discussion you only want to shut it down. So please, feel free to go where you are more comfortable. No one is forcing you to post here. If it is so abhorrent to you than don't. Please feel free to abandon this thread. Because at this point I don't see what it is of merit you are bringing to the table. It's not that you disagree with what I said, that is certainly your right. However you seem to need to disagree in the most abusive way. It is clear that you are firmly entrenched in your beliefs and that your beliefs require you to put down anyone who believes differently than you do. And just an fyi, I don't suffer from white guilt, in the name of white guilt people end up doing really racist things. I just have a take one what is going on in this country, in regards to race that is different than yours. I would add though that if white people suffer from white guilt maybe it's because in their hearts they know they have something to feel guilty about. Certainly not you slk. It is apparent that guilt is not something you are suffering from. But again please feel free to go. | ||
| Flimbro Citizen Username: Flimbro Post Number: 37 Registered: 6-2005 |
Glock Hey, you can fight your own battles but I've enjoyed reading what you have to say so I'd prefer you keep swinging. In my opinion he's jumping on you because he needs to control what you say. Take it from me. Nothing is scarier to them than someone they can't shut up and can't control. The only method left is to marginalize what you say by attempting to belittle your perspective after they've attempted to decide what your perspective is for you. It's a classic move- you'll see it again. The problem is, this cat isn't well versed enough to do that. He says you're regurgitating Panther rhetoric and then he says you're whining. Well if he knew anything about the Panthers he'd know they sure didn't do any whining. He's afraid of dealing with what comes out of your head on an intellectual level for reasons known only to him. This has more to do with him being uncomfortable with what's going on here than with what you say. Speak your mind. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 664 Registered: 7-2005 |
Indeed...you are correct. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 665 Registered: 7-2005 |
Indeed...you are correct. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1112 Registered: 10-2004  |
Flimbro - I agree with your assessment, however could you please clarify with respects to this comment - "Nothing is scarier to them than someone they can't shut up and can't control. The only method left is to marginalize what you say by attempting to belittle your perspective after they've attempted to decide what your perspective is for you." From my perspective the argument your statement pertains to is with a close minded individual and Glock. I see no 'them'. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 668 Registered: 7-2005 |
Flimbro was referring to people with the same mindset as the individual in question. (That will be encountered throughout life.) Or at least that is what it seemed. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1113 Registered: 10-2004 |
I am nitpicking his comment only because this is a sensitive topic. In deciding to use the pronoun them, Flimbro polarizes anyone who might not fully agree with him. I cant deny that the method Flimbro describes is used time and again, in fact its used daily at Whitehouse press conferences but I want to make clear that the majority of the posters on this thread have been speaking honestly from their personal perspectives. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 13728 Registered: 1-2003  |
joel dranove wrote: To let you know there is more than one opinion, and that tired, old liberal White guilt is boring. Thanks for checking in. Glock wrote: Jim the Jewish experience can never be related to the black experience. There are differences and there are similarities. Millennia ago, Jews suffered under centuries of slavery. We are charged with remembering that as if it happened to us personally. There was also blatant anti-semitism in recent memory here. Also, there are many Jews speaking out against the genocide in Darfur, not because the victims are black but because genocide is genocide. As I said, there are differences, to be sure, but it is everyone's duty to be mindful of both potential and existing problems, and I know plenty of Jews who are. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 669 Registered: 7-2005 |
I apologize. Let me clarify. The Jewish-American experience and the African-American experience. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 13729 Registered: 1-2003 |
The African-American experience and the Jewish-American experience both have histories of slavery. The state we are in today is influenced by that experience. I'm sure you'll agree with that. Also, more recent history has discrimination. | ||
| ffof Citizen Username: Ffof Post Number: 4658 Registered: 5-2001  |
glock- I was just catching up on this thread and a while back there was discussion about the prison population. I have a major problem with this too. To change what is going on in the prisons we have to change our horrendous drug laws. You may want to read and become involved in this great organization www.drugpolicyalliance.com | ||
| The Notorious S.L.K. Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1264 Registered: 10-2005 |
LOL- Thanks for the laugh people, really... Flimbro-if you consider intellectual discussion as "no black people are in corporations" from a high school student then I really feel sorry for you. Let's cut through the BS shall we? Our biggest enemy is ourselves. If Glock wishes to go through life as a victim then so be it, but his platform is full of ignorant beliefs that he refuses to test against reality. Instead he'll come up with all these reasons why our society is so racist and use it as an excuse without ever looking at the other side of the coin. If he is going to view every obstacle in life as the system's fault then I feel sorry for him too. And, for Sherlock and flimbro to support his belief system is downright child abuse. Sherlock-I want to be a part of this conversation but it has to balanced in some way. There is an underlying theme here that all white people have it good while all blacks don't and that it is entirely due to the system. My wife and I differ greatly on political/social matters but as a social worker in Brooklyn for the last 15 years working with primarily young AAs, she will tell yout this isn't true at all. These kid's and their parents made BAD CHOICES in their lives that now haunt them. And in your own words: "The biggest roadblock to irradicating racism is white people who know that they are not racist. I know I am not a racist" OK, I'll take your word for it since you are so sure about yourself, but you sure can't shutup about it either. What is the point of this thread, to tell the world how you are not a racist while everyone else is? Glock-I apologize for telling you to shutup and hopefully you will accept my apology. I just got frustrated with some comments you have made. My philsophy in life has always been "do something about it or shutup" and victimhood has never been one of my favorite attributes... You are young and you are to sure about what you know which makes me skeptical since it reminds me of how I was at your age. Boy did i learn alot since then. Peace -SLK | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 670 Registered: 7-2005 |
Once again...you totally ignore everything that was posted. I AM NOT GOING THROUGH LIFE AS A VICTIM. I AM NOT IN HIGH SCHOOL. THERE ARE BLACK PEOPLE IN CORPORATIONS. !!!!!!!  | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 671 Registered: 7-2005 |
BTW, a little off topic...btu does anyone remember that lovely government publication known as the Black Panther Coloring Book?  | ||
| The Notorious S.L.K. Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1270 Registered: 10-2005 |
Glock- Breathe in breathe out..... I am just calling it like I see it. You now say you are not going through life as a victim but your comments prove otherwise. I was under the incorrect assumption that you are in high school and I apologize for this. I think it stems from misintepreting one of bklyntonj's posts. Again, my apologies. How old are you and where are you in life (college, etc?). And about black people and corporations. Did you not say the following in an earlier post: "The way I see it though...women always complain about a "Glass ceiling" and how they can't move upp in corporations...that sucks and all ...but black people can't even get INTO the corporations" -SLK There Flimbro, hows that for this cat being, ahem, "well versed"? | ||
| The Notorious S.L.K. Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1271 Registered: 10-2005 |
ffof- Why don't people just stop selling drugs? Changing drug laws does not stop people from selling drugs. -SLK | ||
| Reader Citizen Username: Reader Post Number: 4 Registered: 4-2006 |
Yo Glock, you say The Jewish-American experience and the African-American experience, that you cant compare them. I know some Jewish people personally and I don't think they agree with that except for slavery in America. What do you mean here? Are you saying AA have been more oppressed? | ||
| The Notorious S.L.K. Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1272 Registered: 10-2005 |
"...a close minded individual..." Hoops- Your philosophy is "its got to be left wing or its no good." Who is close minded? -SLK | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 672 Registered: 7-2005 |
Allow me to correct my earlier post before you pick it apart anymore "Many blacks can't get into corporate america." As I said before Reader, The two will never be comparable becase Jewish people chose to come here, their experience here is the blink of an eye compared to the black experience, after coming here they were not enslaved and robbed of their culture/heritage/history. Notorious...you over simplify the drug problem. | ||
| The Notorious S.L.K. Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1275 Registered: 10-2005 |
Glock 17- Please elaborate on my oversimplifying the drug problem? -SLK | ||
| LW Citizen Username: Lrw Post Number: 87 Registered: 10-2005 |
GLOCK-The BPP coloring book!! I wonder how many people still don't know that that was FBI propaganda, not an actual BPP publication. SLK-Enough, already! We know that Glock said that Blacks can't even get into corporations, and later retracted that statement. So please, stop dwelling on one statement that the brother made, jeez. Time to move on. And I see that you still don't get the "War on Drugs", and it's harmful affects on communities-at-large. Also, when you are the descendant of an African slave, (which I am, and proud of it because my people have come so far from that existence) it's damn hard to discover your history/heritage/culture. Another reason we know that our school systems have failed in getting children (including those that are now adults) to comprehend American history, particularly in regards to slavery. READER-Yo, I don't think Glock is attempting to minimize the Jewish experience (although he can clear that up with you himself). I think that he's saying that the experience of Blacks in America is very different from the experience of Jews in America. As a Christian, I know that Hebrews were held in bondage for centuries, because those were my people, as well. Being a Jew means that you subscribe to a specific religion; Blacks can be Jews, too. In this country, however, Jews do not have the same history as Blacks, because it did not take that long for Jews to "become white" or to assimilate into the mainstream society. In the same token, Blacks don't have the same history as white Jews in Germany, Poland, Russia, etc, due to their relatively small number, and short history in those coutries. | ||
| LW Citizen Username: Lrw Post Number: 88 Registered: 10-2005 |
SLK-How do the drugs get here in the first place? Since it's so easy, why don't we just lock up the people responsible for allowing drugs into our country and throw away the key? Why continue to waste time and money on petty drug dealers? | ||
| The Notorious S.L.K. Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1277 Registered: 10-2005 |
LW- The last time I checked we were... -SLK | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 673 Registered: 7-2005 |
I'm talking about the experience specifically in the united states. The simple fact is that Jews chose to come here. Africans did not. Jews were not enslaved when the came here. Africans were. Jews have not been here nearly as long as black have. S.L.K.- WE started that when drugs started entering white communities. -9x19mm | ||
| mem Citizen Username: Mem Post Number: 6052 Registered: 5-2001  |
I read this and then I realized the sherlock character was being sarcastic, since she is "not a racist": "Then you would be allaying yourself with people who want this district to have one high standard of education for all children. And I think, there wouldn't be a need to have leveling because children would get what they need to succeed from the get go and we wouldn't be producing different outcomes of different children." What is this going to do to children who have learning disabilities, or are just plain slow, or not as smart, being lumped in classes where there may be high or even genius levels of intelligence? You are going to have kids that have the biggest inferiority complexes when they sit in classes with kids that are just a lot smarter than them, and everything just passes the slower ones by and all they learn is how to be angrier, because they don't receive the slower pace that they need. How ignorant. Also, "allay" means: "To reduce the intensity of; relieve". The word you meant to use is "align". Are you a product of de-leveling perhaps? Lonely extremists that need causes (and friends) can be so annoying. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 13734 Registered: 1-2003 |
Glock, you could say that Jews chose to come here, but given that it was a choice between death and emigration, I'm not sure it's a choice in the traditional meaning of the word. They did not come here for better economic opportunity. They came here to save their lives. Were you aware of that? Jews arrived in the western hemisphere in 1654. That was only shortly after African slaves were brought here. Were you aware of that, either? I don't mean to pick a fight with you. I appreciate your respect for the topic. I just wanted to make sure you were aware of the above, because I suspect you were not. |
