| Author | Message | ||
     MeAndTheBoys Citizen Username: Meandtheboys Post Number: 3542 Registered: 12-2004  |
Me, I'm so tired of it being all about these poor boys, how they didn't do it, how their lives are going to be ruined, how they face lots of jail time if convicted. GOOD! Nobody ever seems to care about the victim in these cases. And of course it doesn't help that she's a stripper! They can't seem to stop mentioning that fact. Drives me crazy! | ||
| dougw Citizen Username: Dougw Post Number: 825 Registered: 3-2005 |
Where are you reading articles like that? Everything I read has been pretty factual. Also not one article I read called her a stripper. | ||
| dave23 Citizen Username: Dave23 Post Number: 1671 Registered: 5-2001 |
doug, Type 'duke stripper' into Google News. | ||
| jersey Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 520 Registered: 1-2006  |
I wish they hadn't been LACROSSE players! The sport used to have some class. These MEN (they're in college and will be tried as adults) showed their warped values when they refused to cooperate with the police to protect a teammate who is a rapist. As if that's team spirit. My lacrosse coach gave us a lecture to behave better than usual when wearing the team jacket, because we were representatives of a great organization, blah, blah, blah. They have tainted the sport, their college, and for the Delbarton graduates, their high school. Now regarding the facts: I heard none of the DNA matched. What's up with that? J.B. | ||
| MBJ Citizen Username: Mbj Post Number: 208 Registered: 10-2005 |
"Now regarding the facts: I heard none of the DNA matched. What's up with that? " Well, it just might mean that none of the team members raped this woman. | ||
| Deidra Citizen Username: Deidralynn Post Number: 539 Registered: 6-2004  |
I was wondering when someone was going to bring this up. I hear you, "me". Someone on "The View" said "what if these were basketball players"? I come from a lacrosse family and played myself. It does have a reputation as an affluent sport (and Duke is a high ranking team) - which is why they are trying to put this "all american boy" image out there. I mean, is it so far fetched that this could happen? Come on! This was a college party that got out of hand. With all this DNA mess, I am definitely staying tuned to the details as they unfold. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 11246 Registered: 5-2001 |
OK, I admit I have been watching Dan Abrams when I get home. I think there is a lot that isn't known about the case yet and some conflicting evidence, such as the lack of DNA and some time stamped photos that don't support the alleged victim's story. Lacrosse players do tend to be a little uncouth. It is part of the culture of the sport, but it is one thing to have a party, even one with an exotic dancer or two, and another thing to have the party end up in a gang rape. | ||
| Deidra Citizen Username: Deidralynn Post Number: 540 Registered: 6-2004 |
Jersey Boy, you know the deal...(go Mounties!)  | ||
| frannyfree Citizen Username: Frannyfree Post Number: 187 Registered: 1-2004 |
The newest is that there is evidence that the boys identified were not even at the party at the time. Credit Card reciepts and such. And with no DNA, I doubt they could get a conviction without first getting a conviction in the media. Meand..can you have an open mind or is everyone guilty in your view if a woman says so. | ||
| dave23 Citizen Username: Dave23 Post Number: 1673 Registered: 5-2001 |
This is an ugly incident no matter what. Either this woman was raped or she's lying and is trying to ruin the lives of these guys. (Not to mention the email from one of the players that literally turned my stomach.) | ||
| LilLB Citizen Username: Lillb Post Number: 1526 Registered: 10-2002  |
I must be missing something. From everything I've read and heard, the defense is pretty confident that they have evidence that places both of the guys that were charged, elsewhere during the time the crime was allegedly committed. I also heard that the DNA didn't match. Was there other evidence that I'm missing - my search doesn't seem to turn up anything. I've noticed that there tends to be a general assumption that men accused of rape are definitely guilty (this is just my informal observation). Is this just the resulting backlash to so many years when actual rape victims were usually dismissed as "asking for it" and other notorious defense tactics? Whenever a story like this arises, my husband restates his position that it's an atrocity that men accused of rape are plastered all over the news while the accuser keeps her anonymity. I used to argue with him about this, but I actually have come around to agree. What if these guys are innocent? Their lives are completely ruined. I think that there are very good reasons a rape victim should be able to keep her anonymity, but I would argue that if the victim (of any crime) is allowed to keep his/her anonymity then the accused should be able to do the same until proven guilty. | ||
| LW Citizen Username: Lrw Post Number: 90 Registered: 10-2005 |
JB-The DA handling the case pointed out that a large majority of rape cases have no DNA evidence. Maybe it has something to do with using a condom. I don't think that this necessarily taints the reputations of lacrosse, or Duke, because it's problematic to start making sweeping generalizations when isolated incidences occur. My brother played lacrosse for CHS, so I wouldn't be so easily influenced by this situation; I do agree that athletes tend to have a certain sense of entitlement or invincibility. The same goes for rich kids. What I do think is scary is the fact that one of the players arrested, and the one who wrote that heinous email, are from Essex County, NJ. I think when people hear of a white person being racist against Blacks, there's this automatic assumption that they're some type of Southern, white-trash bigot. Obviously not the case here. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 13744 Registered: 1-2003  |
And the more we gossip about it, the more we drag all the concerned people through the mud. | ||
| LW Citizen Username: Lrw Post Number: 91 Registered: 10-2005 |
And for the record, upon an examination, a doctor did determine that the young woman had been raped, or sexually assaulted. | ||
| Claflin Kennerly Citizen Username: 2cents Post Number: 7 Registered: 3-2006 |
The DA said that 75 to 80 percent of rape cases do not have DNA evidence. Since the Grand Jury sent down an indictment, there must be a lot of other evidence. I think the attorneys for the defendents are putting whatever out there because it serves to put doubt out there. The reason I say this is that last night both attorneys for the players indicted said that their players would not be indicted. Obviously this was incorrect info. Still, I am eagerly listening to all evidence presented, as my son is African-American and loves playing lacrosse. I would love find out that the players are innocent. | ||
| Kibbegirl Citizen Username: Kibbegirl Post Number: 509 Registered: 5-2003 |
LiLB, I'm a woman and I have to agree with your husband. I do find it unfortunate that before proven guilty, that the names of men accused of rape are released to the public. On another note, I too await the outcome of this mess. So long have these boys of sports been given the old pat on the back, wink-wink, look the other way b.s. I don't get coaches and fathers who don't openly discuss this behavior with their boys. Don't these men have daughters? I don't give a rat's ••• if this woman was shaking her ••• for money for these boys. She was there as a job -- nothing more. This was not the first incident that has occurred at this campus, with this team. Enough already! If they are guilty, then pedigree or not, they should serve time, but I don't think they will. Pedigree means a lot in this country and they'll be given a warning, put on probation, and be sent on their merry ways. I guess you have to rape Paris Hilton to get a friggin' guilty verdict these days. | ||
| Hank Zona Supporter Username: Hankzona Post Number: 5488 Registered: 3-2002 |
I'll wait for the trial results instead of seeing it tried in the press and conjecturing based on how it is covered. A couple of interesting things though...Coach K, who is highly esteemed on the campus and well beyond, did not come out and speak in support of the lacrosse coach or program. Also, Jesse Jackson offered through his group to pay this woman's college tuition...a noble offer, but what if she was lying? Im not intimating that I believe she is, but it is a curious publicity move I think on his part (no surprise there). | ||
| LW Citizen Username: Lrw Post Number: 94 Registered: 10-2005 |
I'm surprised no one has brought this up, or maybe were hesitant to- Do you think that the same courses of action would be taking place right now if the alleged victim were the Duke U. student (and of course, why not assume that she is white and comes from money), and the alleged rapists were all Black basketball players from the Black university, on the other side of town? Take into account how the criminal justice system is at work right now; the role of the media; along with our ordinary, public perception (which of course, is largely dependent on the media's portrayal). | ||
| HOMMELL Citizen Username: Hommell Post Number: 120 Registered: 11-2005 |
Only a hand full of people actually know what happened, and none of them are on MOL. | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 373 Registered: 1-2006 |
Thank you. Don't forget the presumption of innocence, and the rush to indict before next month's DA election. jd | ||
| tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 4236 Registered: 12-2001  |
Would the president of Duke University have cancelled the football or basketball seasons (cash cow sports) if these teams were accused of the same misbehavior? | ||
| FlyingSpaghettiMonst Citizen Username: Noodlyappendage Post Number: 63 Registered: 11-2005 |
Tawana Brawley. | ||
| MBJ Citizen Username: Mbj Post Number: 210 Registered: 10-2005 |
Football...perhaps. No one watches Duke football anyway. Basketball...not a chance. | ||
| Case Citizen Username: Case Post Number: 1379 Registered: 2-2005 |
Actually, I heard a great quote from Jesse Jackson on this subject a few days ago. To paraphrase, he said something along the lines of "regardless of what happened, we're going to help this young woman. She's supporting her family in a very difficult way". I thought that was a very classy attitude. | ||
| CageyD Citizen Username: Cageyd Post Number: 679 Registered: 6-2003 |
Really, classy? If she turns out to be an opportunistic liar, Jesse doesn't need to help her out, she's already found a new way to support herself. And, I do also wonder what Jesse would be saying if it was black players, a white victim and no DNA evidence. You can just imagine....."these young men are being railroaded, acused of a crime without evidence because of the color of their skin." Which is why - as opposed to the great civil rights leaders of the past, Jesse is a joke who can only garner media attention by attaching himself to the latest cause celeb. | ||
| 3ringale Citizen Username: Threeringale Post Number: 175 Registered: 1-2006 |
This could well be another example of what Tom Wolfe has called the hunt for the "Great White Defendant". Time will tell. Cheers | ||
| MeAndTheBoys Citizen Username: Meandtheboys Post Number: 3553 Registered: 12-2004 |
Honestly, I really can't imagine what this woman would have to gain by lying about this. I can't imagine what any woman would have to gain by lying about something as heinous as this. And I'm pretty sure if I could find a statistic, which would probably not be that hard, that those that falsly report this kind of thing are a very small minority. You know her reputation will be dragged through the mud at every opportunity. It's certainly not going to be a whole heck of a lot of fun for her. Not saying I absolutely believe the boys did it, not saying I don't. I'm just a little sick of the media portraying men who are accused of rape as some poor, suffering victim, especially if they are athletes of any variety (remember those charming football players in Glen Ridge), while finding a way to humiliate and discredit the alleged victim at every turn. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 4738 Registered: 1-2004  |
I'm not convinced the lax players did anything. Not only didn't DNA match any of the players, I've heard on several news reports and have read several news reports that said no DNA was even found on her. Not even under her fingernails. Several 'experts' have said even if the players used condoms there'd be some kind of DNA left behind. A security guard at a market had to call the local police to come remove the woman from a car she refused to get out of. The security guard said the woman was drunk. It was said on the news tonight records will show the two arrested weren't even at the party. Cellphone records, credit cards and other information will back this up. Even the lone black player and his family have said nothing like what the woman says happened at the house and none of the players did anything to her. As someone else already said -Tawana Brawley. | ||
| jersey Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 523 Registered: 1-2006 |
Why did the players all agree to not cooperate with the police? Because they're innocent -- accused of a crime none of them committed? That would be weird, especially given the e-mail planning a crime. I mean, come on. J.B. | ||
| Claflin Kennerly Citizen Username: 2cents Post Number: 8 Registered: 3-2006 |
Just the Aunt, Why would the black player or his parents (?) make any comments about a party that none of them attended? I don't understand your statement regarding them. Should they take a stand or make a statement about something they know nothing about? | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 2915 Registered: 5-2004  |
Apparently one of the two arrested is from Essex Fells... http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/photos/gallery.ssf?cgi-bin/view_gallery.cgi/njo/vi ew_gallery.ata?g_id=6719 | ||
| combustion Citizen Username: Spontaneous Post Number: 1 Registered: 4-2006 |
What would she have to gain by lying about this? Revenge maybe? She was degraded by a bunch of rowdy boys with entitlement issues. Maybe this was her way of getting back at them. Another possibliity is that she was so drunk that she might actually believe it really happened. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 4745 Registered: 1-2004 |
Claflin- What are you talking about? The black (wish I could recall his name because I don't like to refer to him as 'the black player' was at the party. He is the only one not tested because the accusre said the players who supposedly attacked her were white. I think he and his family came forward saying what they have because they felt it was the right think to do. Rastro - I think the one from Essex Fells went to Delbarton. The other is from Garden City NY. The one who sent the email Mendham also went to Delbarton. I think something like eight of the player on the lax team went to Delbarton. | ||
| Claflin Kennerly Citizen Username: 2cents Post Number: 11 Registered: 3-2006 |
JTA- You will have to get me up to speed about this statement. I have read nothing about it. I still question why his parents would make a statement. If the player was there, then fine he could. But I thought that all of the players were keeping mum. I missed the statement from the "black". | ||
| Claflin Kennerly Citizen Username: 2cents Post Number: 12 Registered: 3-2006 |
Has anyone else read anything about a statement from the black lacrosse player and his parents? I have been following the case pretty closely and I somehow missed this bit of info. | ||
| Claflin Kennerly Citizen Username: 2cents Post Number: 13 Registered: 3-2006 |
I have found a posting on another site (from an average citizen) saying that he saw the African-American player on TV with his attorney (White Female, I don't quite see the relevance of this fact) and the attorney stated that "Nothing happened." Why is this kid speaking through an attorney, then? Interesting, JTA. Thanks for the tidbit. | ||
| LibraryLady.. Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 3304 Registered: 5-2001  |
"The Black Player" (Devon Sherwood of Freeport (L.I.) is the lone black player on the team )} | ||
| Claflin Kennerly Citizen Username: 2cents Post Number: 14 Registered: 3-2006 |
Thanks, Library Lady. Now we can be PC. LOL | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1540 Registered: 9-2004  |
Funny, how folks are quick to CALL OUT Tawana Brawley. I guess the victim is guilty before the facts. BTW, Collin Finnerty (one of the accused) was arrested for assault not long ago in DC and was ordered to do community service. The police label the crime bias, because he attacked a guy who he believed was gay. Also, in the Imette St. Gullien case, the DNA found underneath her nails and the semen secretion on the blanket which she was wrapped in, did NOT match th suspect arrested, even though they found his DNA on the plastic ties used to bound her. | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1541 Registered: 9-2004 |
Finnerty, of Garden City, N.Y, is already facing an assault charge in Washington DC, the Durham Herald-Sun reported on Tuesday. The charge stems from an incident on Nov 5 in which a gay man was attacked by three men in the Georgetown area of the district. The victim in his report to police said that the three assailants hurled homophobic remarks while they beat him. He suffered a cut lip and multiple bruises. Finnerty did not enter a plea in the case and was ordered to perform 25 hours of community service in Washington. He also entered a District of Columbia diversity program and his lawyer said he understood the assault charge would be dismissed when he returns to court on Sept. 25. |
