| Author | Message | ||
     Flimbro Citizen Username: Flimbro Post Number: 38 Registered: 6-2005 |
SLK you're deciding that Glock considers himself a victim. When you first posed the question he rebuffed you- right? Yet you continue to address him as if he agreed with your assumption. He didn't. Maybe try dealing with him according to who he says he is and not according to what you need him to be. I understand that you need to put him in a box in order to respond but he appears to be smart enough to dodge that trap. Regarding being well versed- please don't worry about living up to my expectations. I think you're doing just fine. Re Jews and African Americans and their respective slave histories. What difference does it make? Why allow this to be reduced to a contest about who suffered more? Is there a door prize? I think this is a diversion. What does it have to do with the original idea of this thread? Is there a need to see the black experience through the filter of the Holocaust or vice versa? Or do you need to have an answer to this question in order to form an opinion about the validity of what the African Americans on this thread have to say? Hoops- If you understand and even agree with regard to exposing the tactic I was describing then please don't get hung up in the grammar. "They" are people- in this case overwhelmingly white, who in an effort to maintain a status quo seek to negate the life experiences of anyone (in this case African Americans) by belittling and deriding that life experience and any expression of that life experience. These people (when they are white) usually accuse black people of playing the "race" card or assuming a status of "victim". It is a trap. If black people believe that they cannot express displeasure with second class citizenship because they will be "bore" the architects of that situation, the situation will not change. If black people think they cannot mention inequality without risk of being accused of playing the race card then the inequality will continue and they will continue to suffer. It is a trap. "Them" obviously describes the same group. If you don't belong to "them" than you shouldn't be offended. If you do belong to "them" the choice is yours- be offended or construct a less obvious strategy. If you understand the tactic and disagree with it, then you should begin to point it out when you see it. Tom R. - The first slave in what is now North America arrived in 1528. He was brought by Spanish slavers and his name was Esteban or Estevanico. Spanish slavers sent Africans to the "New World" as early as 1502. See, now you made me contradict myself. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1115 Registered: 10-2004  |
SLK - I know you cant help yourself. Its ok. Glock - Jews are still not welcome members of many communities. In fact I think that black folks may be accepted into some communities these days quicker then jews just because of a common religion. The experiences are similar in that respect. As Tom says jews fled to America because of religious persecution. Everywhere that jews have emigrated to they have been subject to persecution and violence. In recent memory there are not many, if any, things more abhorent then the holocaust. It is not so far gone that simple statements comparing the experiences of one race to another with broad brushes dont hurt. A great many of the jewish people in our area can point to relatives that perished during that time, and a great many others have no link to their past remaining at all. It is best to keep focused and on point when relating the story of racism, then to try to minimize anothers struggle when trying to explain your own. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1116 Registered: 10-2004 |
Flimbro - I think its important to spell it out. Letting a simple statement stand as you said it made it all too ambiguous and for the sake of the discussion I thank you for clearing it up. I agree with you also about conflating the experiences of jews and blacks. | ||
| The Notorious S.L.K. Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1278 Registered: 10-2005 |
Glock 17- Unbelievable.... Let me apporach this in a different manner. Are blacks responsible for any of their bad/wrong actions? The majority of drugs in white communities are brought in by the users and they get caught they should be punished. Guess where they get the drugs from? And be careful on this topic. I have experience in this field.... -SLK | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 675 Registered: 7-2005  |
Jews made a concious choice to come to the united states...not Canada, not south america, mexico, or somewhere in africa...the united states. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 13737 Registered: 1-2003  |
Some Jews chose to go to those places, too. In 1654, they landed in Brazil. Were you aware of these facts? But maybe I'm missing your point. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1118 Registered: 10-2004 |
Glock - jews made a concious choice to go to all those places. These days blacks are making those same choices. Again, it serves no purpose other then to confuse the issue. If you are arguing against racist practices then that is a large enough issue that you should not have to step on another persons heritage/struggle. It seems to me that you have much more research to do. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 677 Registered: 7-2005 |
I didn't bring it up so don't pin it on me as stepping on someone elses struggle. I'm not saying Jews haven't suffered I'm just saying that the two experiences are totally different | ||
| bklyntonj Citizen Username: Bklyntonj Post Number: 671 Registered: 7-2003 |
Reader, yes I'll say it. Blacks were and are more oppressed than Jews. | ||
| The Notorious S.L.K. Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1279 Registered: 10-2005 |
Who cares who suffered the most!?!?!?! Both blacks and jews suffered. Case closed. Is someone offering a prize for to the poster who proves what race of people suffered the most? My ancestors weren't treated to nicely when they reached these shores either but you don't hear me harping about it... Just another excuse to remain a victim in my book. -SLK | ||
| bklyntonj Citizen Username: Bklyntonj Post Number: 673 Registered: 7-2003 |
SLK, when's the last time your rights were interfered with just because of your skin color? Oppressing someone because of their religion is a big difference. If a Jew chooses to wear mainstream clothing and change their name (which a lot chose to do), they could fit right into the society that oppresses them. While Michael Jackson may be an exception, not too many blacks able to change the color of their skin to fit in. Africans were also stripped of their culture, RELIGION, history and language. The things that helped Jews rise above the oppression they were faced with. These are also the things that helped Jews become the most literate group of people there are (95% have some college education). And just because of your last post, I'm going to dunk on you when we play. | ||
| LW Citizen Username: Lrw Post Number: 89 Registered: 10-2005 |
SLK-Your ancestors were Jewish, Black, or Latino? Unless they were, your "book" on victimization and oppression, hatred and tolerance, disenfranchisement and acceptance, are completely different than those "races" above. And why I continue to entertain this, I'll never know, but where do the users get their drugs from? I'd love to hear this, because unless you're running a meth lab out of your home, we already know that drugs are not typically home grown in the US. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1119 Registered: 10-2004 |
bklyn - that depends on where you live - here is some background on Jewish oppression: http://www.unlearningracism.org/writings/jewish_lib.htm and theres this history between 1800 and 1946 http://www.religioustolerance.org/jud_pers2.htm living in Iran is no picnic for Jews It is safe to say that it depends on your point of view. At any time in our history there have been pogroms, attempts to rid the area of jews. There has been mass slaughter over and over. In the middle east today there are only small pockets of jews in countries other then Israel, where before jews made up much larger percentages. I am not minimalizing the black experience in America and I am not belittling oppression, racism, classism or any other method used by those in power to keep in power. Its important to keep in mind that while we live in a 21st century world here, in many other parts of the world they are living in the middle ages. | ||
| jersey Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 521 Registered: 1-2006  |
Bklyntonj, "Yo Jersey Boy, what are hobbies, play any sports, ...? If you want, we can get together with G17 & SLK. " With those two? Maybe boxing? With you and me as refs.  J.B. | ||
| The Notorious S.L.K. Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1281 Registered: 10-2005 |
SLK- So now that we established that the jews, blacks and [now latinos] have the monopoly on being oppressed, what will proving who was oppressed the most accomplish? -SLK | ||
| bklyntonj Citizen Username: Bklyntonj Post Number: 674 Registered: 7-2003 |
Hoops, are you serious? If you read my post and consider the fact that the things Africans were stripped of is what makes the big difference. I would say I'll dunk on you too but you don't show up for anything that's not behind a keyboard.  Jersey Boy, you take the first few rounds, I'll take the rest. Oh yeah, low blows are considered KOs. | ||
| mem Citizen Username: Mem Post Number: 6053 Registered: 5-2001  |
It's ridiculous that there is even a comparison of "who suffered more" at the expense of another race. Stupid stupid stupid, but I'll jump in here - No race killed blacks in the millions (except other blacks, i.e., Africa) in an effort to exterminate them as a race, like the unspeakable torture and murder of millions and millions of Jewish people by the germans. There is NO comparison, quit the disgrace. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1121 Registered: 10-2004 |
actually I am very serious. The things African Americans were stripped of can never be given back, nor recovered. But I will say it another way because you dont believe me. Jews are always in danger. At any moment in time another madman will come to power on the backs of another lie against jews and there will be another massacre. It is not ancient history, it is very real and happens all over the world even today. Yes, Jews can hide amongst 'white' people (those jews that are white) and they can be discreet about their religion (those that are not orthodox), but that in itself constitutes persectution. A jew will never be pulled over for driving while black that is true. A jew will not be denied a living based on the color of his skin, those jews that are white that is, but jews none the less have been and are discriminated against. I wouldnt be so sure of myself on the court there bklyntonj, remember I am also a brooklyn ballplayer.  | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 13743 Registered: 1-2003 |
Right. There is no comparison, and we gain nothing by trying to make them. I pipe in because there were a few things people should know, because displaying ignorance certainly won't help. | ||
| bklyntonj Citizen Username: Bklyntonj Post Number: 675 Registered: 7-2003 |
mem, first you say its ridiculous, then you add your own two cents... New rule: no posting on race issues unless sober. See ya later mem. | ||
| bklyntonj Citizen Username: Bklyntonj Post Number: 676 Registered: 7-2003 |
Good one Hoops. But will you show up? Tom, do you have diplomatic status on MOL? | ||
| mem Citizen Username: Mem Post Number: 6054 Registered: 5-2001 |
bkly, Note that I prefaced my statement with: "Stupid stupid stupid, but I'll jump in here". OK? As far as your new "rule", what are you going to do, stop me from posting? I'll post about race whenever I want, whether I'm drunk or on crack or whatever. However, I am still deciding which wine to drink tonight, red or ....white. I think red. Cheers. | ||
| The Notorious S.L.K. Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1282 Registered: 10-2005 |
bklyntonj- Congratulations, you are the 1st prize winner of being part of the most oppressed race in the history of the planet. Your prize is...... -SLK Careful man, I have a mean skyhook.... | ||
| LW Citizen Username: Lrw Post Number: 92 Registered: 10-2005 |
MEM-Seriously, put the wine down. No race ever killed Blacks in the millions? Have you ever heard of the Middle Passage? Also, you contradicted your whole point in comparing slavery to the Holocaust when you stated that no race ever killed millions of Blacks, other than other Blacks. If that's the case, no race ever killed millions (heck not even hundreds) of other whites, other than whites. | ||
| LW Citizen Username: Lrw Post Number: 93 Registered: 10-2005 |
SLK-And your prize for being a part of the most oppressive race in the history of the planet.... ...Drumroll please. BTW, I'm a girl, but I might have to meet you all for a fierce game of whatever you decide to play. Or maybe I'll just cheerlead. LOL | ||
| LilLB Citizen Username: Lillb Post Number: 1527 Registered: 10-2002  |
Can't we remember history (recent and distant) without having to prove that one era or event was worse than another or the oppression of one group was worse than another? Where does that get us? | ||
| Sherlock Citizen Username: Sherlock Post Number: 66 Registered: 5-2005 |
The fact of the matter is that the in the holocaust 6 million jews were killed, and 2 million gypsies which represented almost the entire population and millions of communist and mentally ill and physically deformed. The slavery of the middle passage and the jewish experience are the same concept in action. That is when one group of people dehumanize, through institutions, others for whatever reason. We are all well versed on the holocaust experience in our schools, however we are given only the most rudimentary outline of slavery in america and its lasting impacts and we are taught almost nothing of the civil rights movement. That's a problem. It's a problem for all americans. regardless of their ethinicty. And SLK, everyone has hard times and obstacles to overcome. But as a white male their is a whole world of stuff you are never going to have to deal with period. And that is what you keep denying and or belittling. YOU ARE NEVER GOING TO KNOW WHAT ITS LIKE TO BE BLACK. And therefore it strikes me as arrogance, at the very least that you are going to tell glock, or filmbro or anyone else of color that what they are saying about their own experience is wrong. And at this point it is a pretty old arguement. | ||
| The Notorious S.L.K. Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1285 Registered: 10-2005 |
LW- I am not trying to prove I am part of the oppressive race. Whitey was mean to Blacky over the years but things have improved greatly and I am ready to move on. Are you? Oh by the way, Girls aren't allowed at our games... -SLK | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 678 Registered: 7-2005 |
Improvement is good. But until there is equality I'm not ready to move on. | ||
| mem Citizen Username: Mem Post Number: 6055 Registered: 5-2001 |
LW, Oh OK, since you TOLD me to put the wine down, I just will then, mr. bossy pants. I'll say this now - I refuse to get dragged back into that disgraceful, stupid argument. Bye now! | ||
| The Notorious S.L.K. Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1287 Registered: 10-2005 |
Glock 17- Equality is right in front of you for the taking, what are you so afraid of? -SLK Sherlock, keep pouring that white guilt on, as long as we know you are not racist you are in the clear. -SLK | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 679 Registered: 7-2005 |
I am taking advantage of what is in front of me. ONCE AGAIN...since you seem to ignore certain parts of my posts. WE ARE NOT DISCUSSING ME. We are discussing issues of race. | ||
| The Notorious S.L.K. Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1288 Registered: 10-2005 |
Glock 17- Your last post can imply you are using you as a reference point. Can you give one example of inequality for blacks in this day and age (not saying there isn't)? -SLK | ||
| jersey Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 524 Registered: 1-2006 |
bklyntonj, "Jersey Boy, you take the first few rounds, I'll take the rest. Oh yeah, low blows are considered KOs." Aren't they always? Let's just make it "prison rules." Oh nevermind, that's already happening here. J.B. | ||
| bklyntonj Citizen Username: Bklyntonj Post Number: 677 Registered: 7-2003 |
Seriously mem, come back. We'll let you supply the refreshments at the game. BTW, red's a good choice. All jokes aside, the robbery of all knowledge of self is the most vicious crime of all. How can you recover and restore something that's completely removed and unknown? Imagine getting amnesia and someone saying to you, "why don't you just be yourself?" Huh? Now, imagine someone beating you down for not remembering... Wow, that's just wrong. | ||
| mem Citizen Username: Mem Post Number: 6058 Registered: 5-2001 |
bklyn, I hear you. I have it in my own family. But no one has beaten any of us down for it, can you explain further? Thanks. | ||
| bklyntonj Citizen Username: Bklyntonj Post Number: 679 Registered: 7-2003 |
gm mem, Let me explain, if you notice, most AAs that aspire to obtain the finer things in life tend to migrate to more affluent white communities, they also seem to take on characteristics of refinement or tendencies more associated with whites. This is known in the black community as "acting white" or "selling out". If no effort is shown in trying to better themselves, view education as unnecessary and cause havoc in the community, then that's considered being the "N word" or some might even affectionately term that "keeping it real". But ask an AA to just be themselves, like the heritage and land you come from and they're clueless. Most if not all AAs could not tell you or link any knowledge of themselves pre-slavery. As a person who came here from Crown Hts. Bklyn, one thing I know and admire is Jews make sure their history is studied and learned by all jewish adults and youth in particular. What makes it even more effective is Jews can connect or relate. AAs can learn from now until the cows come home about African countries that were part of the slave trade but the connection and relationship is just not there. Oh yeah, how come you don't invite any brothas to your events?  | ||
| LilLB Citizen Username: Lillb Post Number: 1534 Registered: 10-2002 |
I don't feel much of a connection to the countries my anscestors came from. Should I be feeling oppressed? Why does being asked to "be yourself" have anything to do with your anscestors? And, anyone moving to an affluent neighborhood probably does so because they've made something of themselves and have become financially comfortable, not because they're a chameleon. I admit, I've lost track of this thread, but I don't understand the purpose of your explanations. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 686 Registered: 7-2005 |
The point is LILB you know which countries your ancestors came from...and you know who your ancestors were | ||
| bklyntonj Citizen Username: Bklyntonj Post Number: 680 Registered: 7-2003 |
LiLB, you have helped prove my point. Unless people can relate to a certain scenario, its very hard for them to understand. Certain things I say about this issue, AAs can understand comepletely while non-AAs will be unempathetic. Vice-versa re: Jews or anyone else. When its not about them, people just don't get it (or want to). BTW, where are you from? |
