| Author | Message | ||
     tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3429 Registered: 3-2004  |
Yup. That could be crucial. | ||
| Claflin Kennerly Citizen Username: 2cents Post Number: 19 Registered: 3-2006 |
Yes, That is what the attorney's for the players have been putting out to the press, that they have this evidence (video from the atm). I assume the protocol would not allow them to present this evidence to the grand jury before the indictments? I am confused on that one, too. | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3430 Registered: 3-2004 |
And a couple of other things. Are stamps on the photos indicating the time the photos were taken totally reliable, and tamper-proof? Secondly, if the TV lacrosse player defenders are saying that it is evidence that there were only eight minutes in which the rapists could rape, and not half an hour, that doesn't mean there wasn't a rape. Rape can happen in eight minutes. The assault could have been so violent that the victim perceived it to have been a longer period of time. It's not the length of time, it's the level of violence that makes it a rape. | ||
| Copperfield Citizen Username: Copperfield Post Number: 330 Registered: 1-2004 |
Anyone else who read Tom Wolfe's "Charlotte Simmons" see many of the characters coming to life here in this case? From the obnoxious and sexually overagressive lacrosse player who practically rapes Charlotte to the liberal professors who hate the jocks and start protest rallies over the drop of a pin to the lily-livered (how's that for a good outdated phrase!) administration to the "town/gown" conflicts - it's all there. Tulip: If you go to the www.abcnews.com web site, you will be able to read, in full, all about the evidence the defense team has and why, if they do have it, it would seem to blow the DA's case out of the water. "If" being the operative word here but ABC and several other major news organizations seem to find them credible. Time will tell if they are right. | ||
| CHS2003 Citizen Username: Chs2003 Post Number: 14 Registered: 5-2003 |
I tried to stay out of this argument for as long as possible, but I feel that I have to throw a few things into the conversation. Let me start out by saying that I am a 20 year old male college student who works as a sexual assault counselor, which means that I help staff a 24 hour hotline that survivors can call. Let me also say that I do NOT claim to be an expert on all issues relating to sexual assault, so if you try to quiz me on laws and statistics, you will probably stump me. I will only share what I’ve learned in MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE working as a counselor for the past six months. First, very few rapes are reported. Many of the survivors that I speak with do not call the police, usually because they are too scared that their attacker will find out and hurt them again. Many survivors are often concerned (with good reason, after reading this thread) that they will not be believed. It is a BIG DEAL for a woman to admit that she has been raped. Second, reporting a rape is often a painful process for a survivor, and a thorough hassle for anyone who is lying. Rape exams are painful and humiliating, and often involve the survivor having multiple cavities swabbed. Blood is drawn and pubic hairs are pulled out by the roots to collect DNA. THEN the survivor faces questioning by doctors, the police, the DA, defense attorneys, etc. If I were a woman who wanted to get back at a male, I would just throw my wallet into a dumpster near his house and claim that he had robbed me. Third, and what has struck me most since working at this job, is the number of women who report that they did not fight back. Many women said that they were so shocked by what was happening that they froze up and didn’t know what to do. Others say that they were scared that any form of resistance would result in more violence against them. Still others said that after some initial struggling, they realized that their resistance was futile and just tried to close their eyes and detach themselves, praying that the rape would be over as soon as possible. What does all of this teach me about the Duke case? Nothing in particular, as I was not there and do not know anything that has not been available through online news sources. I just wanted to add this information to the discussion in the hope that some people who have not dealt firsthand with rape can have a better understanding. | ||
| MeAndTheBoys Citizen Username: Meandtheboys Post Number: 3560 Registered: 12-2004  |
Thanks for the insight, and thanks for doing what you do. I'm very impressed. But, "survivor?" Yes, rape is horrible beyond description, but "survivor" is much better applied to life-threatening situations like breast cancer. Just my opinion. And you know what they say about opinions! | ||
| Claflin Kennerly Citizen Username: 2cents Post Number: 20 Registered: 3-2006 |
I know what you mean, but I think he was referring to the fact that when a woman is threatened at that level of violence, thoughts of death must be on their mind. How many murder cases involve a woman being raped first? So I would think that if you are lucky enough to come out of that situation with just the rape and not worse, you have survived. I don't claim to know any percentages (of how many rapes end in murder, probably small) or anything else, but I just imagine you have to wonder, if you are being raped by three or just one man, "Am I gonna get out of this alive?". The rapist has complete control over you. To me rape is a life-threatening situation, for that reason. That's my opinion, one without any first-hand experience, fortunately. But that definitely makes it just an "outside looking-in" opinion. | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1551 Registered: 9-2004  |
Claflin Kennerly, Thanks for answering the question Hoops asked. You pretty much summed it up! I think the accuser in the Duke case had to look through pictures to identify her attackers and the police had to round them up. In Kobe's situation it was pretty clear who he was and where to find him. I dont think it would be legal for the cops to arrest all 43 players and ask her to pick one out. Hoops, This is a very serious situation, and I would like to know if these Lacrosse players alledgely rape this woman or is this woman is telling the truth. I have sons and would HATE to think of them being falsely accused. I have neices if God forbid something like this happened to them, I would want the perps prosecuted to the fullest. This incident has torn the community of Durham to pieces. The "haves" against the "have nots", Black against White. First thing from the media "Racially charged case at Duke University." How can you say "race" does NOT play in this incident? This case is now causing a racial divide in Durham. | ||
| tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 4241 Registered: 12-2001  |
I would say that the racial fault line exists everywhere in America. Unfortunately, when incidents such as this occur, there are all too many people who rush to exploit that fault line before all the facts are in. | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1552 Registered: 9-2004 |
tjohn, What about this mother's plight. A mother’s ‘torture’ A jury sent Romona Moore’s murderers to prison, but her mother still seeks justice by joshua rhett miller / metro new york APR 10, 2006 EAST FLATBUSH — After nearly three years of “no respect” from the NYPD following the rape, torture and slaying of her only child, Elle Carmichael wants answers — and money — from police. Elle Carmichael holds a photo of her slain daughter Romona Moore in her East Flatbush home. Carmichael is suing the NYPD for not doing enough to find her daughter. Though no court dates are set, Carmichael’s lawyer says the case will be brought “soon.” (Photo: Bill Lyons/Metro) Carmichael, the mother of Romona Moore, alleges in a civil lawsuit seeking in excess of $1 million that police ignored Moore’s disappearance in 2003 — reportedly assuming she was out with her boyfriend — and ignored 911 calls by a neighbor who heard screams from the Snyder Avenue apartment where the 21-year-old Hunter College student was held in a basement for three days. “I wasn’t treated right,” Carmichael said. “I explained this was a unique case. She didn’t sleep out, she never missed school, and they just gave me a deaf ear to that.” According to the lawsuit, filed in Brooklyn Supreme Court in July 2004, the “NYPD has a policy and practice of not making a prompt investigation of missing persons claims of African-Americans, while making a prompt investigation for white individuals, despite having official policies and procedures to investigate unusual or unaccountable absences.” ‘Full-blown investigation’ Last month, while announcing the indictment of Darryl Littlejohn in the death of Imette St. Guillen, Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly defended the NYPD but admitted detectives did not take the complaint originally because Moore — an “emancipated adult” — could have simply left home. “Once [detectives] took the case, they did a full-blown investigation, they did a canvass,” Kelly said. “Doing that canvass enabled them to find another victim of these [suspects] and that’s how the case was broken. So there wasn’t a delay on the part of detectives.” After Moore was reported missing on April 23, 2003, family and friends distributed flyers in the neighborhood. Cops began their search four days later. On May 10, Moore’s badly decomposed body was found after an anonymous caller notified police. Ten days later, Kayson Pearson, 24, and Troy Hendrix, 22, were charged in her death. A jury convicted them last month. When Carmichael’s case finally goes before a judge, more is at stake than a settlement, said City Councilman Charles Barron. Issue of race “This is a larger issue of race and the value or white life versus the value of black life,” Barron said. “When are we going to be treated with some respect here? It’s racism, no question in my mind.” “In the end, I would like to see people treated differently if they call to report a missing person, especially if it’s a young black woman or young black man,” Carmichael said. “Police should listen carefully to family members and not just jump to a conclusion that a young woman is out partying or at the bar somewhere. They should make better judgments so no other person goes through what I went through — it was utter torture.” Romona Moore’s Law • Barron is pushing “Romona Moore’s Law,” which would require police to begin searching immediately for missing people under the age of 25. Currently, police must investigate reports involving teens under 16 or people over 65. Barron thinks he has the votes to pass the bill. | ||
| tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 4243 Registered: 12-2001 |
What about it? If poor and, especially poor blacks, receive less attention from police than the wealthy and white, that disparity should be quantifiable. And if it is quantifiable, the disparity can be resolved. As to the specifics of this case, I can hardly comment on the basis on one news report, although I am sure it is factual and fee of bias. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1131 Registered: 10-2004  |
Phenix - Race is there only because people insert race into it. The issue is whether or not a woman was raped. Not whether or not a black woman was raped by a white man. Does it really make a difference the race of a victim or the race of a rapist? If the town is racially divided, it is not because of this issue. It is because the town is sensitive, in fact it seems all of American is sensitive to issues where different races of people are involved. In my mind there is one American woman and 2 American men involved in a criminal investigation. The thing is I can understand that the trial would be watched locally. It makes sense for that to be big news in a college town where there are more then just racial divides going on. There has been much conversation about prejudice and racism in our town at our school by this one or that one and to some extent there is a double standard but, and this is key, not every issue is a race issue. At some point you have to be patient and see how justice is meted out. If these guys are tried and the trial is done right then they will be either sentenced or freed. There wont be one iota that race has to do with it. Claflin - the point is this, this is one ncident in a country that has these things happen on a daily basis (see CHS2003's post). It is sensationalized by a tabloid press that uses these things to sell you more soap and deodorant. There is no real world news, there is no real domestic news because its too mundane to follow what is going on in congress and in the state house. This trial is nothing more then a sensationalized, over publicized, potential crime. There is no socially redeeming value in watching the happenings here. --- it does make for good MOL discussion though  } | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1553 Registered: 9-2004 |
tjohn, I saw the mother being interviewed on the local stations (NBC/ABC) and I'll admit, I never heard of this case till her murderers were on trial. After they were convicted, the mother voiced her anger at the police. Romona's mother was crying out that she was treated with racism when trying to report her daughter missing. Four days? And this girl would still be alive if the police had investigated those screams and went searching for her unlike what happened to Imette St. Guillen. Hoops, We can agree to disagree. However, it does make for a good MOL discussion. THAT I AGREE!  | ||
| Wendyn Supporter Username: Wendyn Post Number: 2975 Registered: 9-2002  |
I went to Syracuse where the AA population, both in the town at at the school, is pretty low. I'm guessing if there was an accusation of wealthy SU LAX students against a poor "townie" stripper, there would be the same amount of coverage as in this case. Seems to me much more haves vs. have nots than white vs. black. | ||
| Claflin Kennerly Citizen Username: 2cents Post Number: 21 Registered: 3-2006 |
Hoops - The press was not the first to bring race to this issue. Remember, the alleged victim and her partner brought that to the table with their initial accusations (the racial slurs at them both). As with everything in this case, that has not been proven, but the e-mail has some serious racial undertones, too. The press had nothing to do with either of these incidents (one alleged, one proven), but I am sure they were more than happy to run with it-it sells newspapers, gets TV viewers, etc. They did not just dream this up, however. I have to disgree with you regarding the lack of value here; we need to be informed about the state of humanity, not just what is going on in the state house and congress. That is the value I get from this. We always need to strive to make the world a better place for our children and our children's children. We can't get better if we are ignore basic problems with our culture. And yes, this issue is good for MOL posting. Maybe something else will come up soon that we can discuss and agree on! | ||
| LW Citizen Username: Lrw Post Number: 107 Registered: 10-2005 |
TJOHN-Not necessarily so. Discretion is the problem with the way many crimes and offenses are handled by the different players in the criminal justice system. Whether or not an individual is arrested, indicted, how they're sentenced, and as in the case above, how long it takes to start and to what extent a missing person's case is investigated. And the disparities are quanitfiable for offenses, but I've never seen concrete data on the investigation process across gender/race lines. However, it was either NBC or ABC that did a report shortly following the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, on the tireless pursuit by police, the media, and public interest and sympathy for missing white women, compared to missing Black women. | ||
| Claflin Kennerly Citizen Username: 2cents Post Number: 22 Registered: 3-2006 |
Wendyn, I think it may be a little of both, but I can only guess, since I was not there. I think that applies to a lot of the problems in town, too. What about the achievement gap? How much of that can be applied more to economics than race in our town? I have to say that since I have lived here I have been more of a victim or elitism (is that a word?) than racism. You bring a good point to the table. Some of the press I have read does focus on that more than race. | ||
| tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 4244 Registered: 12-2001 |
LW, I don't doubt that there are disparities in the intensity of police investigations. It just seems to me that this is one problem that should be easier to quantify and address than many problems. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 7316 Registered: 5-2001  |
One thing that struck me about those two boys in Minnesota (?) who were found drowned a couple weeks ago was that no Amber alert was issued for several days. There was a quote by a local law enforcement officer that, since no one had seen them abducted, they waited. These kids were black. I wondered if, were it two 11 y/o white boys who were last seen heading to the park, would there have been the alert placed right away. It happens that in this case it would not have made a difference because they weren't abducted. But, when any child disappears, why take the chance of losing any valuable time? | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1554 Registered: 9-2004 |
greentree, That's my question with the Romona Moore case. Valuable time was lost and a young honor student death may have been prevented had the police responded sooner rather than later. Here is a disturbing quote from one witness in that Duke incident: A neighbor heard one of the boys yelling out, "Hey b----, thank your grandpa for my nice cotton shirt!" The neighbor, Jason Bissey, says that before the woman went back inside, he heard one of the partygoers repeating urgently, "Guys, let's go." He also says the party broke up within five minutes after the women left. from MSNBC Referring to the cotton fields? And I'm sure we ALL know the history behind that comment. | ||
| LW Citizen Username: Lrw Post Number: 108 Registered: 10-2005 |
TJOHN-If there's no pressure to, other than from grassroots organizations, why would they address these disparities. | ||
| LW Citizen Username: Lrw Post Number: 109 Registered: 10-2005 |
HOOPS-During the wee hours of April 24, 1959, Mack Charles Parker was lynched in Poplarville, Mississippi. An African-American, Parker had been confined to the Pearl River County Jail in Poplarville after being charged with the rape of a pregnant white woman. Broken out of jail and tortured and shot to death by a white supremacist mob, Parker's mutilated corpse was discovered May 4, 1959 on the Louisiana side of the Pearl River -- about two and a half miles south of the Bogalusa Bridge. And I'm sure that you've heard of the Emmett Till story. (1955) | ||
| LW Citizen Username: Lrw Post Number: 110 Registered: 10-2005 |
HOOPS-Those were examples of lynchings by hangings, which is what I believe you challenged me to find. BTW, crime is usually intra-racial, meaning that whites usually committ crimes against whites, and Blacks usually committ crimes against other Blacks. Also, similarly to what is being discussed now, white life is perceived to be more valuable than Black life. Whether or not you choose to acknowledge that is another matter, but I think that everyone in this country sub-consciously realizes this. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1136 Registered: 10-2004 |
LW - I thank you for looking into the issue and finding that these incidents though highly publicized are really not all that common. You also found that in each of the cases you cited (not sure about the earlier ones - pre 60's) that the people responsible for these acts were found, tried and convicted. How that stacks up against the value of a black persons life versus a white persons life can be debated. I am not in denial about racism nor am I in denial that our society has a long way to go before racial barriers are broken down for good. My intention is simply to point out that while sensitivity is heightened about racial issues, sometimes racial issues are really human issues. Sometimes inserting race into human issues serves to obscure what is going on. I have no answer to the police f-up in the case that Phenix cited. It is a tragedy and I hope the mother gets a settlement that causes change. I have no answer to the issue of the boys who were found drowned, I think it is despicable if race entered into the decision about whether to search or not. I do not define people by their race. I may describe someone as black or white in appearance, but the percentage of melanin in their skin has no meaning when talking about their character or personality. I dont say 'Hes a great black guy'. I say 'Hes a great guy'. | ||
| LW Citizen Username: Lrw Post Number: 111 Registered: 10-2005 |
HOOPS-If they were so "highly publicized", why did you initially assert that I wouldn't be able to find ONE case? Don't contradict yourself in an effort to minimize the information I reported for you. And in where did you read that the people cited in the torture and hangings were "tried and convicted"? Let me reiterate the cases, in order to save you time: "In 1981, KKK members in Alabama randomly picked out a nineteen-year-old black man, Michael Donald, and murdered him" Parker had been confined to the Pearl River County Jail in Poplarville after being charged with the rape of a pregnant white woman. Emmett Till, I seriously hope you just are uneducated on this story to make such a statement. So you see, out of the three cases, only one had been legally charged with a crime, but never made it to trial. These were just savage, vigilante acts of revenge. It seems to me, no matter what data, statistics, facts, or research is brought to you, you will never have an answer, they'll all just be examples of coincidence, or an expception to the rule. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1137 Registered: 10-2004 |
No, I meant not to minimize the attrocities. Please make no mistake about that. I meant to point out their rarity. As you can see you had to go to the Jim Crow era to find them, and they have become increasingly rarer year after year. I say this to make the point that calling something a 'lynching', as you did, and applying racial bias into a place where racial bias may not actually be is counterproductive. Where racism is found, it is important to bring it to light. I think that calling everything racism makes the case for equality a losing battle. Everything is not racism. Truly, you and I are in agreement on more then we are in disagreement. There are over 16,000 murders in the US every year. There are over 94,000 cases of rape in the US every year. These things are horrible, but not necessarily race related. The media picks up a juicy story and publicizes it. This would still be a story regardless of the race of those involved. | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 535 Registered: 10-2005 |
Presuming they DID find DNA matching several guys at the party, but their lawyers effectively argued that the Durham CSI team mishandled the evidence (thus introducing the possibility of tainted evidence), would we be as quick to exonerate these boys as people we did with OJ Simpson? If a glove found in the backyard of the house don't fit anyone at the party, must we acquit? | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 11268 Registered: 5-2001 |
Smarty, I will admit I have no idea what went on at the party other than, knowing lacrosse players, it was probably a real wild affair. However, the lawyers for various members of the lacrosse team are basically doing a "Johnny Cochrane" already in that they are releasing tons of information intended to, as I have said before, "win an acquital in the court of public opinion". | ||
| Smarty Jones Citizen Username: Birdstone Post Number: 536 Registered: 10-2005 |
More questions.... If this was a White Freshman Woman from Chatham NJ, would the notion that the story was Made-up have been included in 1 news article? I'm sure plenty of White girls have been this drunk (or drunker) at college fraternity parties.... Why don't the dozens of annual proven, verifiable Rape cases on College Campuses make national headlines? Why haven't we seen a counter-suit launched for Defamation of character, etc.? Will United Artists produce a film in 5 years about this incident like they did with Flight 93? Will the lacrosse players be allowed to star in it as themselves, like the aforementioned movie? Or is this topic destined for A&E? | ||
| LW Citizen Username: Lrw Post Number: 112 Registered: 10-2005 |
HOOPS-I wasn't aware that 1981 was considered "Jim Crow Era". My statements may seem counterproductive to you because you don't see the disparity, but if you're the affected minority, or if you're concerned with social justice for all, you may find this quite productive indeed. Lastly, lynchings are not restricted to the hanging of another person, but because you assumed that's what I meant by the term and challenged me to a history lesson, I accepted, giving you exactly what you asked for, and doubted that I could present. Lynching[according to Wikipedia]- is violence, usually murder, conceived by its perpetrators as extra-legal execution, or used as a terrorist method of enforcing social domination. Victims of lynching have generally been members of groups marginalized by society. So, if we were to include the various forms of lynching, including but not limited to, racial or religiously charged hate crimes, police brutality, etc. I'm sure you wouldn't have to go back as far as "Jim Crow" to find such examples. | ||
| LW Citizen Username: Lrw Post Number: 113 Registered: 10-2005 |
SMARTY JONES-What?!?! And this is a serious question for all of my white fellow MOLers: Why do you always bring up OJ? | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 4758 Registered: 1-2004  |
Tulip- The time stamps on the photos could not have been altered. The reason this has been proven in people in the pictures were wearing watches. The investigator blew the pictures up and guess what? The time on the pictures matched the time on the watches. There would have been way too many things for the LAX players to have thought of to cover up and or give themselves alibis. What the one from Mendham has said has been backed up by the cab driver who picked him up from the house before the alleged attack. He took him to the bank where his ATM card was use. I think I read something that said they stopped for food. The LAX player was then driven back to his dorm where he used his school id swap card to get into the building. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1138 Registered: 10-2004 |
LW - by the definition you found lynching "is violence, usually murder, conceived by its perpetrators as extra-legal execution, or used as a terrorist method of enforcing social domination. Victims of lynching have generally been members of groups marginalized by society" I still see that your examples are very rare - which was my point. Your 1981 example not withstanding, I never said there was no incidence of racial violence (although I doubted you would find any actual lynching), that would be foolish. I just meant that your use of the word 'lynching' in your original statement, was not correct. It was you who said
Your statement was an emotional reaction and not reflected in todays reality. I can understand the emotion and in fact I can understand your frustration with me, but my point is not without merit. People are too quick to cry racism, sexism, anti-semitism, prejudice, etc whenever there is a crime or a perceived wrong. Its not always the case and in fact I dont think is mostly the case where rape especially is involved. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 7324 Registered: 5-2001 |
I'm curious - those who are convinced by the evidence that is being presented in the news: Are you saying that the victim made up the story? Or that perhaps she was mistaken about who raped her? | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1557 Registered: 9-2004 |
People are too quick to cry racism, sexism, anti-semitism, prejudice, etc whenever there is a crime or a perceived wrong. Hoops, I think it's more on how the case was handled. The community of Durham was angry because they felt that the authorities were dragging their feet. Not until protest and community pressure and the mayor wanting answers, did authorites begin to pursue further into the investigation. Again, the case I sited above (Romona Moore), took awhile for the police to investigate her case, unlike Imette St. Guillien. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1140 Registered: 10-2004 |
On this issue we agree. When a complaint is raised to the authorities they should look into it immediately. I can agree that there may be a racist aspect to the response but I will not point the finger cavalierly. In terms of Durham and the police response, was the response slow because of racism, or was it because an institution that supports the town was involved and they felt they had to cover themselves? There can be many factors involved that do not involve race. I am not absolving the police of racism, how would I know if that really was the motivation, I'm just trying to point at other factors that could be the reason. | ||
| Royce Citizen Username: Royce Post Number: 7 Registered: 1-2004 |
How did the authorities drag their feet? From what I've heard, the DA has taken the allegation seriously from the start, or did I miss something that happened early on? | ||
| LW Citizen Username: Lrw Post Number: 115 Registered: 10-2005 |
HOOPS-You did not say that it was rare, you originally said that it was impossible, big difference. And because these examples of racial violence are "rare"(I use quotes because I do not share your sentiment) in present-day, does that mean it's ok? One gay man being beaten up only once a year is acceptable because it's rare? If only dozens of Native Americans, Blacks and Latinos are victims of police brutality each year in our state, is it ok? Because combined, they make up almost half of the population, so it makes it rare. Separate justice systems for different groups of people, no biggie, either. Dr. King once said that "injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere". So, I won't apologize for crying any "-isms" when the facts are clear. Also, my use of the phrase "lynch mob" was correct, and it was not an emotional outburst. If so, I would not have been able to refute your claims, and support mine. In closing, my dear HOOPS, you will never understand my emotions because you refuse to acknowledge and are unaware of where I'm coming from. And here's a challenge for you, if you're up to it: I challenge you to look at the disparities that exist in the CJS, it's less work yet still very telling to narrow it to the state of NJ. Also, if you think race is not an issue in rapes, also research the scores of Black men that have been exonerated for rapes (white female victims) that they did not commit, but have spent the majority of their adult lives in prison for. You may want to start with the Innocence Project, I think it may be helpful. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1142 Registered: 10-2004 |
lw - I guess I have not made myself clear to you. I agree with you about the criminal justice system. I agree there are disparities where race becomes a factor both in investigations and in actual sentencing. I do not accept your challenge to research the issue because I concede the point. We can continue to disagree on the language you used but I dont think it will get us any further. Also I assure you that I am directly aware of where you are coming from and I am sympathetic. You dont have to believe me, I wont mention it again. It has been fun exchanging these views with you. | ||
| Joe R. Citizen Username: Ragnatela Post Number: 391 Registered: 6-2004 |
Has anyone read the girl's statement on Smoking Gun? The kids used aliases and called each other by uniform number to hide identity. How about the statement about the kid at the party excitedly brandishing a broomstick and threatening the girl with being sodomized with it? For timeline fans, how long do you think it would take for 3 big athletes to violate an intoxicated woman with an object like that. Our aggravated sexual assault statute doesn't require the use of the penis. I haven't read the NC law, but I would be surprised if it were not similar. This is a possible explanation for the lack of DNA. I'm not saying I know what happened there, but what I do know is that I don't know enough to begin to judge the case. It's always in the best interest of the defense to try a case like this in the Court of public opinion. The DA, however, owes no one an explanation at this point. He has said too much already. By the way, these guys were very fond of the girl apparently. They have pictures of her on the floor, on the back porch, in the car...Do we have all the pictures (I've seen 7)? Unless I'm mistaken, there are a couple of dozen of pictures we haven't seen. Taking digital photos is like eating popcorn. |
