| Author | Message | ||
     Case Citizen Username: Case Post Number: 1462 Registered: 2-2005 |
This might belong in Political, but I HATE Political... so I thought I'd start it out here. I know that the USA typically puts up with a lot of crap, but this just seems insane even by our standards. Why in the world would our national anthem need to be sung in anything except English? "With passions running high over the release of "Nuestro Himno," a Spanish-language version of the national anthem, Bush told reporters that people who want to be citizens of the United States should learn English and "ought to learn to sing the national anthem in English." | ||
| Joan Supporter Username: Joancrystal Post Number: 7332 Registered: 5-2001 |
I have no problem with the National Anthem being translated into other languages (not just Spanish) as long as the translation doesn't skew the meaning of any of the passages. Songs (including National Anthems from other countries), books, magazine/newspaper articles, motion picutes, television programs and all other forms of oral and written communication matter have been made available in whatever mix of languages was requested/required for a very long time now. The central question really seems to be whether the United States of America should be available in languages other than English. A universal language is helpful when we have to be able to communicate with one another but it is also helpful to try and preserve as much of the multiple heritages of our citizens as possible. I can see both sides of this issue. | ||
| msg Citizen Username: Msg Post Number: 191 Registered: 8-2001 |
I feel that if people want so much to live in the US, they should not only learn to sing the national anthem in english but speak it too. I have no problem with people teaching their family language at home and speaking it at home but if english is the official language of America, then that's just what it should continue to be. Maybe if we made english language classes more accessible and free, immigrants could get a better start with their lives here. | ||
| Nancy - LibraryLady Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 3346 Registered: 5-2001  |
I guess, in this case, what is so upsetting is that this Spanish language version is viewed not a tribute but as a pronouncement that the decendents of and the current Hispanic part of our population (both legal and illegal) are announcing that they are taking over our contry. I have a version of God Bless America sung in yiddish and the feeling from that recording is one of respect and acceptance of our country and its language, not a challange to English as our national tongue. (better move this to Politcal Soapbox!) | ||
| Nohero Supporter Username: Nohero Post Number: 5340 Registered: 10-1999  |
I think that the organizers of this are saying the exact opposite, that they are as much a part of America as anyone else. But for those who view this as an indication of a nefarious plot against "real Americans", translating The Star Spangled Banner into Spanish (or any other language) is nothing new. For example -  The above is from the Library of Congress - you can see the words and music at this link - http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cocoon/ihas/loc.natlib.ihas.100000007/default.html The first page of the music indicates that this was put out in 1919 by a group that included John Philip Sousa. | ||
| Deacon Blues Citizen Username: Deacon_blues Post Number: 50 Registered: 8-2003 |
The United States, I believe, has no official language. There is nothing in the constitution making English the official language. Maybe there should be, but that is another issue. At the moment, it is not the case. | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 103 Registered: 4-2006 |
Should we now have english and spanish renditions at sporting events, like they do the national anthem in french and english in Canada? | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 104 Registered: 4-2006 |
At least our national anthem sounds better than " Oh,Canada" | ||
| Case Citizen Username: Case Post Number: 1463 Registered: 2-2005 |
But it's not nearly as cool as Ireland's national anthem... either the old one or the current one. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 762 Registered: 7-2005  |
It's all these damn illegal Mexicans. If you aren't legal...GO HOME. THE COUNTRY IS FULL. Carlos Mencia - "Have you BEEN to Mexico lately? There are NO Mexicans left over there!" And if you are illegal...and want to be here. SHUT UP. Love the country you dodged border patrols and barbed wire for. | ||
| catmanjac Citizen Username: Catmanjac Post Number: 164 Registered: 2-2004  |
They are changing some of the lines, which desecrates our national anthem. If a word-for-word translation into other languages is done, that is okay. But changing the lines and meaning are wrong. Why do illegals think they deserve to be above the laws of this country? Yes, my great-grandparents came to this country in the 1800's. But they did so by the laws in effect at the time. We have current immigration laws and they should be followed. Anyone who skips work Monday for the rally should be fired. Anyone who skips school should be suspended. | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 110 Registered: 4-2006 |
I think we have some U.S. border control candidates right here on this thread. | ||
| mtierney Citizen Username: Mtierney Post Number: 929 Registered: 3-2001 |
Translation into another language is one issue, but the real problem, I agree, is that this Spanish version has changed and/or added new lyrics. This has to be a no-no in any language! For a long time, I have personally been repelled by the "new" versions of the anthem sung at so many sporting events. Hip hop, beboop, whatever, isn't respectful of the original song either IMHO. They may be rendered in other languages, too, I can't be sure! I am so turned off by people singing (shouting) into a mike held so close to their teeth, you can't read their lips! | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 764 Registered: 7-2005 |
mic** | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 121 Registered: 4-2006 |
" Oh say can you see, the people crossing the border in the middle of the night?" | ||
| Joan Supporter Username: Joancrystal Post Number: 7336 Registered: 5-2001 |
If the meaning of the lyrics has been changed in this latest Spanish adaptation of the Star Spangled Banner, then it is just that - an adaptation - rather than a translation. The above arguments against a Spanish adaptation of the Star Spangled Banner might be stronger were it not for the fact the United States already has not one but three national anthems. | ||
| Joe R. Citizen Username: Ragnatela Post Number: 404 Registered: 6-2004 |
This may come as a shock to some people , but the Bible has been translated into languages other than English! Come on, man. It's a song and not a very good one either in my opinion. Half the people who are called on to sing it publicly can't even remember the words. | ||
| Scully Citizen Username: Scully Post Number: 386 Registered: 8-2005 |
Joan: 'the United States already has not one but three national anthems.' What are the other two? (I'm hoping something more singable...) :-) | ||
| Nancy - LibraryLady Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 3354 Registered: 5-2001 |
FWIW, the White House website only lists one anthem http://www.whitehouse.gov/national-anthem/usa-full.html Also Interesting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star-Spangled_Banner The "New" Lyrics Lyrics to 'Nuestro Himno' ('Our Anthem') Amanece, lo veis?, a la luz de la aurora? lo que tanto aclamamos la noche caer? sus estrellas sus franjas flotaban ayer en el fiero combate en señal de victoria, fulgor de lucha, al paso de la libertada. Por la noche decían: "Se va defendiendo!" Oh decid! Despliega aún Voz a su hermosura estrellada, sobre tierra de libres, la bandera sagrada? Sus estrellas, sus franjas, la libertad, somos iguales. Somos hermanos, en nuestro himno. En el fiero combate en señal de victoria, Fulgor de lucha, al paso de la libertada. Mi gente sigue luchando. Ya es tiempo de romper las cadenas. Por la noche decían: "!Se va defendiendo!" Oh decid! Despliega aún su hermosura estrellada sobre tierra de libres, la bandera sagrada? English translation: By the light of the dawn, do you see arising, what we proudly hailed at twilight's last fall? Its stars, its stripes yesterday streamed above fierce combat a gleaming emblem of victory and the struggle toward liberty. Throughout the night, they proclaimed: "We will defend it!" Tell me! Does its starry beauty still wave above the land of the free, the sacred flag? Its stars, its stripes, liberty, we are the same. We are brothers in our anthem. In fierce combat, a gleaming emblem of victory and the struggle toward liberty. My people fight on. The time has come to break the chains. Throughout the night they proclaimed, "We will defend it!" Tell me! Does its starry beauty still wave above the land of the free, the sacred flag? | ||
| Monster© Supporter Username: Monster Post Number: 2923 Registered: 7-2002  |
It's not just a song, it's what it stands for, this is a bastardization of the song. The title has been changed to "Nuestro Himno" or "Our Anthem", meaning that it's not the US National Anthem, but their anthem, excuse me!, the anthem of illegal immigrants who are basically laughing in our face, A remix to be released in June will contain several lines in English that condemn U.S. immigration laws. Among them: "These kids have no parents, cause all of these mean laws ... let's not start a war with all these hard workers, they can't help where they were born." Bryanna Bevens of Hanford, Calif., who writes for the immigration-focused Web magazine Vdare.com, said the remix particularly upset her. "It's very whiny. If you want to say all those things, by all means, put them on your poster board, but don't put them on the national anthem," she said. Some of the lyric changes, “And the rockets red glare, the bombs bursting in air gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.” to “In the fierce combat, the sign of victory, the flame of battle in step with liberty through the night it was said it was being defended.” Other changes and inclusions to the new Hispanic anthem version is the phrase: "we are equal, we are brothers." The head of the Washington-based Center for Immigration Studies --which supports tougher measures against immigrants-asks if France would accept its anthem sung in English "as a sign of French patriotism." He says, "Of course not." The grandson of Francis Scott Key, Charles Key said: "I think it’s a despicable thing that someone is going into our society from another country and changing our national anthem.” http://www.usenglish.org/inc/
Maurp E. Mujica had the following to say about "Nuestro Himno", this is taken from U.S NewsWire
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| Lydia Supporter Username: Lydial Post Number: 1793 Registered: 5-2001 |
Our National Anthem is beyond depressing, translate it into any language and it's still about "bombs bursting in air" If I had my druthers, we would make "America the Beautiful" our anthem (or "USA the Beautiful" - "America" over-reaches and is vague} As far as translating to languages besides English - why not? In our not too distant past Irish weren't welcome to mix with civilized society - now it's Spanish-speaking people who are dumped on. Let it go, we're supposed to be a welcoming country - open arms and all that. So let's welcome. Peace. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 765 Registered: 7-2005 |
Just like Black Eyed Peas basterdized Miserlou by Dick Dale with their song Pump IT! | ||
| Dr. Winston O'Boogie Citizen Username: Casey Post Number: 2062 Registered: 8-2003  |
Funny, I couldn't find anything there that says it only applies to citizens and excludes immigrants (legal OR illegal). If they're here in the U.S., they have a right to say (or sing) whatever they please, and you of course have the right to object and rebut - marketplace of ideas and all that. You should be proud that people from other countries can come here and exercise a right to free speech that they may not have been allowed in their home countries. With regard to the demise of English - it ain't going to happen. Not in the U.S., and not anywhere in our lifetimes. English is the universal language across cultures. I'm with Lydia - there's nothing here worth getting riled up over, especially when there are plenty of other issues of importance that we could be saving our outrage for. | ||
| Monster© Supporter Username: Monster Post Number: 2926 Registered: 7-2002 |
of course their is nothing wrong with translating the national anthem to other languages, it's the changes made to it that are wrong. I wholeheartedly agree to the freedom of speech, but the freedom to the wholesale disregard for the law I do not, illegal immigrants are illegal immigrants and should be stopped, with force if need be. I'm not against immigration if done so legally, I've known and spent time with plenty of immigrants, some have been legal, and some have been illegal, some from both sides I have liked and some I have not, it's not the people that I necessarily have something against (depending of course on the situation), it's the entire illegal situation. Do I feel that the illegal parents of legal (born in America) children should be sent back to whence they came, and have to apply for legal status through proper channels, yes. Do I care what happens to the children, of course I do, does this change the way I feel, no. I think that America can prosper and be made stronger by immigration, but it must be done legally. | ||
| Dr. Winston O'Boogie Citizen Username: Casey Post Number: 2063 Registered: 8-2003 |
that's a different issue than this hoo-ha over the national anthem. but I'm bothered by the demonization of the immigrants and the relative free pass that the employers are getting. We should be saving our contempt for Americans who know well the rules against illegal immigration, but still choose to exploit people who come here because crappy jobs with stingy wages are still better than what they'd have at home. What's worse, the undocumented alien who comes here willing to work hard for next to nothing, or those who are only too willing to exploit those workers' desperation? | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 124 Registered: 4-2006 |
I am waiting until they perform it on "American Idol" before I take a position. | ||
| Monster© Supporter Username: Monster Post Number: 2930 Registered: 7-2002 |
it's not a different issue, that's the reason the song came into existence, it's more or less being pushed as the theme song, or rallying song for the immigrant-led economic boycott planned for Monday, too. | ||
| Dr. Winston O'Boogie Citizen Username: Casey Post Number: 2064 Registered: 8-2003 |
you're right, it's the same issue. but it's the trivial sideshow portion. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 769 Registered: 7-2005 |
Winston. if they are illegal..they should get the heck out. no one wants them here but corporate villans who would use their services to lace their own pockets | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 132 Registered: 4-2006 |
Hey, Mexico is going to make drugs legal. Maybe they will now have a problem with illegal American immigrants? | ||
| Nancy - LibraryLady Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 3356 Registered: 5-2001 |
So much of this is a question of fairness and obeying the rule of law. This country was built on the sweat of immigrants. Unless you are full blooded Cherokee (or another ) your background includes immigrants. But why should we allow individuals who break our laws, not follow the correct channels, jump to the head of the line so to speak, permission in remain here. Winston is right, of course. The real villians are the companies and indviduals who exploit these illegals, using their labor at below a living wage to gather our crops, clean our homes, raise our children etc.By supporting the illegals, you are allowing these workers to remain in near serfdom. We often talk here on MOL about illegal students and their effect on the school disctrict.Rather they remaining in their own district and strenghtening and improving there, they ILLEGALLY send their children here to get a better education. We should be demanding that MEXICO and (Irvington) clean up their own situtions rather then having their citizens flee to a land of better opportunity. I understand the illegals mindset but it doesn't help anyone else in the long run. | ||
| Brett Weir Citizen Username: Brett_weir Post Number: 1485 Registered: 4-2004  |
The Star-Spangled Banner was written during a battle whose outcome was far from sure, and which would determine the future of our fledgling nation. F.S. Key wasn't just writing a song- he was imprisoned in a ship as his home was being bombarded by enemy fire. The only thing that let him know that his nation still existed was that its flag was still flying over the battlements. Even he did not know what the outcome was when he penned the song- he closed with the question "does that Star-Spangled banner yet wave...? It is a rare and significant anthem even if it doesn't get the toes tapping musically. "Nuetro Himno" is a different song with a different message, and lumping it together with our national anthem is entirely inappropriate. It is dismissive of this country's forebears and the nation that they created, defended and handed down. My ancestors came and struggled. Some died during the journey, a few died here for lack of medical care, and nothing at all was ever handed to them. Conversely, they felt a deep and enduring obligation to become Americans and respect their adopted heritage. The only advancements they made were earned; my father served as a paratrooper in WWII and went to law school on the G.I. Bill. He died a young man years later, in part due to his wartime injuries. His service to his country was the greatest honor of his life, and we treasure his memory as part of Brokaw's Greatest Generation. Selfless, honorable, proud of their heritage but devoted to their country. I don't see nearly enough of that devotion among today's emigres. Too many want something for nothing, use and abuse the system and don't consider themselves American in the least. My heart does not go out to them and their struggles pale when compared to those who came in decades past. And on May 1st I'll do what I always do- bus my own table, cut my own lawn, cook my own meals and tend to my own home. And if they all up and leave here on May 2nd I won't miss them in the least. But, of course, they won't be going anywhere. And let's not mistake the actions of elected officials who make such grand gestures on behalf of illegal immigrants; it's about VOTES. | ||
| Mr. Big Poppa Citizen Username: Big_poppa Post Number: 601 Registered: 7-2004  |
Hey, what happened to freedom of speech? They can do whatever they want to the lyrics and no one can do a damn thing about it legally. The original lyrics are so lame anyways and in desperate need of a makeover. I hate fervent nationalism. People on this thread make it sound like we live in Iran.  | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 774 Registered: 7-2005 |
What's wrong with nationalism? It works for Japan and France. | ||
| Joan Supporter Username: Joancrystal Post Number: 7359 Registered: 5-2001 |
America the Beautiful is one of the other two songs which has been referred to as a United States national anthem. The other is God Bless America. However, to the best of my knowledge the Star Spangled Banner is the only one of the three which has official status. Based on Nancy's posted translation of the Spanish lyrics into English, the so called Spanish translation of the Star Spangled Banner is in fact an entirely new song which has been created to serve a specific political purpose which is far removed from the intent of the original Star Spangled Banner as written by Francis Scott Key. | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 148 Registered: 4-2006 |
Ship them out, but only after they paint your house or mow your lawn cheaply? Most Americans can't even get their kids to do the type of work these people do. I was brought up to believe there is some dignity in labor. The problem is the Mexican government that is a playground for political elites that own everything and don't create jobs, and the American government that looks the other way when it comes to the employers who need cheap labor. I suggest it isn't the illegals who are the criminals or at fault here. | ||
| MichaelaM Citizen Username: Mayquene Post Number: 182 Registered: 1-2004  |
Brett, you write, "My ancestors came and struggled. ... I don't see nearly enough of that devotion among today's emigres." With all due respect, "ARE YOU KIDDING?!" Immigrants come here and work jobs that nobody who can afford to own a home in Maplewood would take. Something like one-quarter of food service workers and cleaning people are immigrants. They take care of children, they start small businesses and work long hours to get ahead. They aren't that different than your holier-than-thou ancestors: They want to work for a living to provide for their families and give their children better than they had. Is that so hard to understand? As for "Nuestro Himno," why would a person want to criticism how somebody else chooses to express their patriotism? Immigrant groups take a while to find their place in American society -- take the Irish who came during the Potato Famine, for example. My ancestors, by the way, were Irish, and they were largely despised, seen as others and discriminate against. Are we really going to repeat such poor history? Sheesh, I thought better of Maplewood than this thread. Sorry. | ||
| Mr. Big Poppa Citizen Username: Big_poppa Post Number: 602 Registered: 7-2004 |
Glock,I said fervent nationalism. At that point, people stop having a logical discussion and can only deal with emotion. Let me clarify something here for the xenophobes on this thread: -If people know any 2nd and 3rd generation Latinos, you've probably realized that most do not speak Spanish at home as the primary language. Some can hardly speak it at all. There isn't a stong desire by the majority of Latinos to make Spanish an "official" language. -The Latino illegals are the invisible backbone of many industries. They often do dangerous work at low US wages without insurance....and they are not complaining. The reason there is a boycott at all is because of anti-immigrant hysteria that suddenly became the issue du jour. What...did Iraq and terrorism become too boring? -We are talking about songs.....inanimate objects. You can only place importance on these things if you actually try. I don't care about the National Anthem in English or Spanish. I care about what America represents to me and I don't need a song to help me interpret my feelings. | ||
| SO Ref Citizen Username: So_refugee Post Number: 1743 Registered: 2-2005  |
I'm more bothered by Keb Mo's cover of Johnny Cash's "Folsom Prison Blues" and changing the lyrics from "I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die" to "they said I shot a man in Reno, but that was just a lie." It changes the ENTIRE meaning of the song from a man realizing he's paying for his crime to simply another inmate claiming innocence.... (end of tangential vent) "Nuestro Himno" is a cover that will fade away. I doubt that it will ever attain the status that "We Shall Overcome" did for the civil rights movement... | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 780 Registered: 7-2005 |
That's because the civil rights movement was just. This movement is just foolish and misguided. |
