| Author | Message | ||
     anon Supporter Username: Anon Post Number: 2698 Registered: 6-2002 |
This thread appears to offer confirmation of the study done at Emory University showing that people sometimes get stuck in their partisan views and can't really respond objectively to anything that casts their guy in a bad light: They needed a study to prove that? | ||
| 3ringale Citizen Username: Threeringale Post Number: 182 Registered: 1-2006 |
Factvsfiction, You said: Given the climate of our country and politics, do people need to wonder why we get intellectual pygmies, self-serving money grubbers, and pandering dolts in positions of power? The wealthy and privileged have manipulated governments and politics to their own advantage since time immemorial. Maybe there is more to Thomas Jefferson's agrarian views than just standing ankle deep in manure? Jefferson thought that a free republic could only be maintained by a nation of yeoman farmers unmolested by sinister bankers twirling their moustaches. It's hard to disagree with him after surveying our current lineup of "leaders". Anon, With all the government grant money floating around, there's probably a study proving that water is wet. Cheers | ||
| Nohero Supporter Username: Nohero Post Number: 5366 Registered: 10-1999  |
And that's what's great about this country. Poor John Adams spent years in Europe during the American Revolution, dealing with those bankers that Jefferson had no use for - but without them, the U.S. might not have got underway. America is the product of idealism and practicality. We follow the words of folks who might not have lived the way they preached. We have an imperfect system, that beats the alternative. ... and even if it is all Bush's fault, we'll try to fix it, anyway. | ||
| Dr. Winston O'Boogie Citizen Username: Casey Post Number: 2085 Registered: 8-2003  |
I think the onus is on the person starting this thread to cite actual instances of people blaming Bush for stuff that isn't his fault. Otherwise, it ends up as nothing more than a straw man argument. With a few possible exceptions, people are criticizing Bush for decisions that he was directly responsible for. And unless one can cite specific instances to the contrary, this start of this thread is basically just a troll. | ||
| The Notorious S.L.K. Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1371 Registered: 10-2005 |
Anon- Good post. RL, The Stone Roses suck? So you are clueless about music too? Ok, name a band you dig and lets see if we can reach some kind of middle here... -SLK BTW, I was also listening to the Stone Roses "I am the Ressurection" and thought of you too but the lyrics were too mean to post (even though they fit pefectly).... SLK | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 345 Registered: 4-2006 |
3ringale- It is amazing Jefferson had time to write anything considering the time he spent over in the slave quarters, doing you-know what. And that dovetails to my point. Jefferson would have had no shot at elected office today, and he would have been crucified if he ran. Articles on his past sexual appetites would be on the front cover of the Post, and the pundits would be questioning whether he had a sex addiction that would interfere with his running the country. O'Boogie- Don't rattle your gold chains at me. The onus is on you, my John-Travolta-like white suit wearing friend to come up with some examples that show you can be fair about ascribing fault for things to Bush. If you can't, well who then is the "troll"? Exp- Who screwed up the North Korean nukes? Can you say, Madeline Albright? | ||
| Dr. Winston O'Boogie Citizen Username: Casey Post Number: 2087 Registered: 8-2003 |
you started this thread. therefore the onus IS indeed on you to provide some evidence for your thesis. if you can't then I think it's obvious how worthless your point is. | ||
| 3ringale Citizen Username: Threeringale Post Number: 183 Registered: 1-2006 |
Factvsfiction, The Jefferson/Hemings liason is less than 100% proven. The 1998 article in Nature by Foster, at al, is less conclusive than one might think. The article by Joseph Ellis in the same issue is very slanted, in my opinion. Also, while Ellis is a fine writer whose books I have enjoyed, he has serious credibility problems of his own. I don't think the Nature articles are online, but the Wikipedia article on Sally Hemings looks like a good souce of information. But even if Jefferson did father children by Sally hemings, it is just too far removed from our times to be relevant to today's political scene. Cheers | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 11436 Registered: 5-2001 |
3ring, DNA. | ||
| 3ringale Citizen Username: Threeringale Post Number: 184 Registered: 1-2006 |
Bob K, The Nature article pretty much eliminated the Woodson claims, but the DNA link to Thomas Jefferson looks strong, but not conclusive. There is most likely a Jefferson connection, but it doesn't have to be Thomas. I have a copy of the Nature article at home and I will post a couple of sentences later today so you can see what I'm talking about. Even if it is true, I still like Jefferson and would not want to take any drastic measures, like taking him off of the $2 bill. Cheers | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 14118 Registered: 1-2003  |
I think the theme of this thread is yet another strawman argument. | ||
| Robert Livingston Citizen Username: Rob_livingston Post Number: 1889 Registered: 7-2004  |
Scrod: Honestly, I am deeply creeped out that you think of me offline while listening to crap-••• bands. | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 3033 Registered: 5-2004  |
I stubbed my toe getting out of the shower today. I can't figure out a way to make thawt GWB's fault. But I'm working on it. | ||
| The Notorious S.L.K. Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1374 Registered: 10-2005 |
RL, Please don't flatter yourself. The thoughts are not very nice ones. I am still waiting for an example of a good band from you. Please enlighten me for once. -SLK | ||
| Southerner Citizen Username: Southerner Post Number: 1021 Registered: 2-2004 |
Dr., This entire board is one big troll with a hundred strawmen. Enjoy it for what it is. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 14127 Registered: 1-2003 |
You may have a very good point! | ||
| Alleygater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 1904 Registered: 10-2004 |
Really? I thought this board had a just a few trolls that continually insisted upon erecting "boring" old Southern-facing STRAWmen. | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 346 Registered: 4-2006 |
Rastro- You obviously don't know any lawyers. Tom R- You are really very stringent in your thread requirements. Were you ever an Olympics Judge too? Alley- Your comments in the other thread makes me think of the apple pie scene in that movie. I won't touch saltines again. 3ring- come on, Jefferson was a player. O'Boogie- I think disco is overrated. Complain about that too. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 14140 Registered: 1-2003 |
OK, I think I'm beginning to understand you. And there is another guy here who just calls himself TomR, so be careful. | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 348 Registered: 4-2006 |
Tom Reingold- A clone, like Dolly? | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 14142 Registered: 1-2003 |
Actually, he was here first. Uh oh. Now I have to prove I'm not a clone?! | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 350 Registered: 4-2006 |
Tom Reingold- If you were born in a South Korean lab the game is over! | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 14144 Registered: 1-2003 |
OK, then I'm safe, but that's just going on my parents' words. If I really am a clone, then it's Bush's fault. | ||
| 3ringale Citizen Username: Threeringale Post Number: 186 Registered: 1-2006 |
For whatever it is worth, here is the final paragraph from the Nov. 5, 1998 Nature article on Thomas Jefferson's DNA: We cannot completely rule out other explanations of our findings based on illegitimacy in various lines of descent. For example, a male-line descendant of Field Jefferson could possibly have illegitimately fathered an ancestor of the presumed male-line descendant of Eston. But in the absence of historical evidence to support such possibilities, we consider this to be unlikely. This doesn't impress me as a hands-down, case-closed conclusion. But I could be wrong. (Then I'll just blame George W. Bush!) I don't watch any of those crime investigation tv shows, but I'm sure that DNA evidence is useful. I just think it is more useful in solving a modern crime where fathers, brothers and uncles can be ruled out, than in resolving a 200 year-old paternity dispute. No matter what, I still respect Mr. Jefferson. Cheers | ||
| Southerner Citizen Username: Southerner Post Number: 1032 Registered: 2-2004 |
Alley, No. I am boring in other ways not with Strawmen. I am boring in my constant reminder to you libs that you control nothing. And even with a President in the 30's and an openly corrupt Republican Congress, you libs still have to worry if you can take back even one part of Congress. If you can't win back control in this environment then you guys have no hope. So Alley, why don't you take a vow. I never will because I love seeing you libs pop a vessel once or twice a week! All because of this hicks comments. Of course, we all know the reason I get to you is because deep down you know I'm right and you just can't figure out why. | ||
| Alleygater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 1909 Registered: 10-2004 |
You're correct I can't figure out why you are right about anything. For a country hick you sure do have a lot of big ideas. | ||
| The Notorious S.L.K. Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1375 Registered: 10-2005 |
Alleygater Isn't consistently referring to someone as a "country hick" prejudicial? RL does the same with his "red-neck" comments. Well, I guess as long as the "country hick red neck" is white then everything is peachy... The "party of the people" my tush.... -SLK | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 3041 Registered: 5-2004 |
FvF, I come from a family of lawyers. I just choose to take some personal responsibility. I'm trying to resolve that with the obvious fact that GWB somehow forced me to stub my toe. | ||
| Chris Prenovost Citizen Username: Chris_prenovost Post Number: 875 Registered: 7-2003 |
It reflects poorly on us culturally superior MSO denizens that the only argument we are able to make against Southerner's points is to accuse him of being a country hick. We cannot argue with his message, so we insult the messenger. BTW, I would guess that Southerner paid about a quarter for his home than I did for mine, that his property taxes are half what I pay, that his auto insurance is at least a third, and that his overall cost of living is a lot less than ours. Country hicks, indeed. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 14154 Registered: 1-2003 |
While a few of us insult the messenger instead of addressing the message, a few of us have addressed the (lack of merit) of his arguments. | ||
| The Notorious S.L.K. Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1376 Registered: 10-2005 |
Chris- I think Southerner lives outside DC in VA. (where I use to live), not really country living....trust me, housing costs are crazy down there too, especially inside the beltway. Car insurance may be a little cheaper but not much and you may be correct about property taxes. Cost of living is about the same.... I just find it bizarre that Southerner is written off as a hick all because he has different political opinions than Alley. It is a very arrogant position to take. -SLK | ||
| Chris Prenovost Citizen Username: Chris_prenovost Post Number: 879 Registered: 7-2003 |
SLK - Yes it is. Tom - His right wing arguments often come with more logic and detail than those who oppose him. It just seems that the usual cabal of MOL lefties use insults and regional slurs against anyone who opposes them, facts and logic be dammed. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 14164 Registered: 1-2003 |
I don't and won't defend any slurs against him, if they're based on where he lives. Smart people live everywhere. I find it trying when he diverts our discussions about what government should and shouldn't do into a huddle session of predictions of who will (or can) win elections. To me, the election is a means to an end: elect a person so he can do good things in office. It seems that to him, the election is the end. Rather than insult him, I'll just say, "boring!" | ||
| Chris Prenovost Citizen Username: Chris_prenovost Post Number: 880 Registered: 7-2003 |
. . . much better. there's a good boy, Thomas.  | ||
| Dr. Winston O'Boogie Citizen Username: Casey Post Number: 2090 Registered: 8-2003 |
Hick is absolutely the wrong word to describe Southerner. there's nothing especially "hickish" about his posts. I prefer "vacuous." it's the perfect word for the yawning, empty black hole that are his posts. and yes Chris, his post is logical. but it's just that - a post, not posts. it's the same one, over and over and over. but I've come to enjoy Southerner's presence on the board. he spurs me to think of creative new ways to describe the breathtaking emptiness of his submissions. | ||
| The Notorious S.L.K. Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1378 Registered: 10-2005 |
Many of you are overlooking the simplicity behind Southerner's post(s)...he looks at politics purely as a strategic game, like chess. And the one who wins the election,or checkmates, is the obvious winner. In some ways, his perspective is a very honest one, whether you agree with his positions or not. It shouldn't be surprising to any of us that politicians play politics, but sometimes we do tend to forget this fact. -SLK | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 14168 Registered: 1-2003 |
It depends on what you consider winning to be. To me, the ultimate prize is when government does something good for society or people. If "my guy" wins but does bad stuff for us, it's not a win, in my view. I get on the politics section to talk about what we need, and how well or badly we are following a useful path. I bemoan the mistakes we make, and I applaud the progress. It's necessary to get elected to gain power, and it's necessary to play games to get elected. But the important stuff happens after elections. An analogy: some people buy a car to get places. Some just like the machine. A hand-machined engine is a "better" engine, but it doesn't get you to work and home better. Some worship the machine, but I think it's better to value the work the car does. And it's worthwhile to analyze whether it is doing its intended job and whether it's doing it well. When I point out that the war in Iraq is going badly, that's me saying the car doesn't drive. And then some people laugh and tell me that I bought the car so I should just take my lumps. Uh, no, I want the car to work. Is that so much to ask? | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 368 Registered: 4-2006 |
Rastro- So you have simply sent them out to chase ambulances? Are they quick enough? To all of you so obsessed with the right or wrong politics- " Can't we all get along? "- Honorable Rodney King. | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 3046 Registered: 5-2004 |
haha.. I get it. A lawyer joke. That's funny, because I said I have a family of lawyers. I haven't heard a good lawyer joke like that in a long time. And quite original, if I may add.  | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 375 Registered: 4-2006 |
I have some IT professional jokes too. |
