| Author | Message | ||
     MeAndTheBoys Citizen Username: Meandtheboys Post Number: 3888 Registered: 12-2004  |
I'm with Roger on this one too. In fact, I would go so far as to say he should have tried to find help for her if, in fact, she was behaving inappropriately. But in no universe should he have ever taken her up on any "offer" she may have made. Even if she had stripped naked, laid down on her back and spread her legs--he should have just walked away. Even exclusive of the student/teacher relationship, you have the basic adult/child aspect of things. Seems to me this teacher was of an age to have a 16-year-old child himself! And that's just sick. | ||
| Duncan Supporter Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 6429 Registered: 12-2001  |
Now I can't get "Don't Stand So Close To Me" out of my head. | ||
| Wendyn Supporter Username: Wendyn Post Number: 3137 Registered: 9-2002  |
High school students who set out to seduce teachers make it very hard for the teachers. Possibly the most ignorant thing I have ever heard. | ||
| mjh Supporter Username: Mjh Post Number: 577 Registered: 5-2001 |
Wendyn, I have to agree........Pretty impressive considering the competition sometimes! | ||
| Pizzaz Supporter Username: Pizzaz Post Number: 3670 Registered: 11-2001  |
I'm in complete agreement with Roger and Pippi on this. | ||
| Albatross Citizen Username: Albatross Post Number: 846 Registered: 9-2004  |
Wendyn: how so? | ||
| tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 4341 Registered: 12-2001  |
Roger/Pippi/Pizzaz===Arthur Dimmesdale. Based on the outrage, you would think Trias raped a child as opposed to doing something really stupid with a sixteen year-old girl who may have been a victim or may have been quite worldly. (edited - just read JTA about this being rape due to teacher being in authority position.) Still, lighten up on the outrage over a major judgement error versus a heinous crime. There is no doubt that he should lose his job and benefits as a teacher. However, three years in prison seems a bit extreme unless there is more to the case than is publicly available. | ||
| Duncan Supporter Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 6433 Registered: 12-2001 |
Albatross, that you even have to ask the question means you wouldn't understand or accept the answer. | ||
| Wendyn Supporter Username: Wendyn Post Number: 3141 Registered: 9-2002 |
Albatross, because the comment suggests that there was no way to stop the "seduction" other than unzipping one's pants. How about telling the principal, student's guidence counselor or parents? She obviously needs help. Is it that "hard" (no pun intended) to keep your d*ck in your pants? | ||
| Albatross Citizen Username: Albatross Post Number: 847 Registered: 9-2004 |
Duncan: your assumption is not only false, but outright insulting and uncalled for. The entire reason I ask is to better understand that point of view. | ||
| Albatross Citizen Username: Albatross Post Number: 848 Registered: 9-2004 |
Spent a bit of time figuring out how to say this: I agree with with your post @ 1:52, but disagree that the comment implied that. I think Mr. Magic only intended to state that the student's alleged behavior would have put the teacher in an extremely uncomfortable position. Does that make sense? | ||
| ROGER Citizen Username: Roger Post Number: 93 Registered: 2-2005  |
TJohn: He did raped a child. It is called statutory rape. The man is old enough to be this girl's father. You need to accept that a teacher having sex with an underaged student, on the school grounds, in a closet is a lot bigger than just a major judgement error. I will probably sound like an old man, but this is exactly what's wrong with our existing society: TOO MANY PEOPLE THINKING THAT INMORAL, UNETHICAL, and UNPROFESSIONAL actions are just okay because they are just JUDGEMENT ERRORS and everyone is entitled to get a second chance. Yes, I am OUTRAGED and will not LIGHTEN UP. | ||
| Wendyn Supporter Username: Wendyn Post Number: 3142 Registered: 9-2002 |
I agree it is a very uncomfortable situation. But seductive students should be one of the easiest situations to alleviate. "Principal X, I have a student who is making me uncomfortable because of her sexual advances. Can we move her out of my class immediately and notify her guidence counselor and parents? I think she should see a psychologist to figure out why she wants to have sex with her 43 year old married teacher." There are a lot of "hard" parts about teaching. Avoiding having sex with your students isn't "hard". | ||
| Albatross Citizen Username: Albatross Post Number: 849 Registered: 9-2004 |
It looks like we're only disagreeing on the semantics of the words, which can't be helped :-/. But Re: your 2:23, you're absolutely right. | ||
| tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 4342 Registered: 12-2001 |
Sixteen is the age of consent in NJ, right? So if Mr. Trias had just been a friend of the woman and was not a teacher, there would have been no crime. Is that right? Now, many are suggesting that a sixteeen year old girl has a problem if she is interested in a man old enough to be her father. I am somewhat inclined to agree but was wondering when it ceases to be indicative of a problem. I know a woman who at the age of thirty or so married a man at least 25 years her senior. Did she have a problem? | ||
| MeAndTheBoys Citizen Username: Meandtheboys Post Number: 3899 Registered: 12-2004 |
Perhaps your attempting to play devil's advocate, but can you really compare a girl of 16 to a woman of 30 or so? That seems like apples and bricks to me. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5233 Registered: 1-2004  |
Add me to the list of posters who agree with Roger. | ||
| Pippi Supporter Username: Pippi Post Number: 2296 Registered: 8-2003  |
"I think Mr. Magic only intended to state that the student's alleged behavior would have put the teacher in an extremely uncomfortable position. " Uncomfortable position, yes, Untenable one, no. as Wendyn said, "There are a lot of "hard" parts about teaching. Avoiding having sex with your students isn't "hard". " The other thing we keep assuming here is that there was consent. what if she agreed to have sex with him because she felt threatened by his position of authority? Does that make this act "more" illegal. I do not think 3 years in prison is too harsh a sentence. Those are the consequences to overstepping the bounds of authority and decency, not to mention the LAW. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5234 Registered: 1-2004 |
I've noticed a number of posters have been saying the student seduced the teacher. How do we know it wasn't the other way around? I don't think it should matter who seduced who. The fact he was her teacher and she was a student; not to mention under the age of 18, make him wrong. Plus, isn't he married? | ||
| tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 4343 Registered: 12-2001 |
Not really playing Devil's advocate. At what age is it no longer indicative of a problem when a woman is interested in a significantly older man? Sixteen does seem young, but it is certainly on the edge of a gray area. My problem with this thread is the expressions of outrage that seem more appropriately reserved for a serial killer. With all the truly terrible things that go on in the world, I find this sort of thing to be sad and tiresome. Assuming this is a single event, Trias did something abysmally stupid and has to be punished, but I can't seem to find the outrage some can muster. | ||
| ROGER Citizen Username: Roger Post Number: 96 Registered: 2-2005 |
TJohn: You are missing the point. Age of consent is irrelevant and it lies along the same lines of drinking and smoking age - it varies(d) on a state by state basis. You say tomatoe, I say tomato. If Trias was a friend and not a teacher and this would have happened in another state that is not as dumb as NJ, it would still be a crime. This is not about how young or how old they both are and when it is right to be interested in an older man, this is about a teacher having sex with a student on the school grounds. What part don't you understand? | ||
| Bajou Citizen Username: Bajou Post Number: 425 Registered: 2-2006 |
I have never heard of a woman being able to rape a man. I don't care if she went to school naked and threw herself at him. As a teacher and an adult man there should be and has to be a simple solution..just say NO. Seems to me the students psychological wellness should not be the one in question but the teacher's mental health needs to be looked at. He knew he is married, her teacher, an adult and that she is his student and way too young. Frankly that should have put a damper on you-know-what no matter how seductive she was. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 1049 Registered: 7-2005  |
I have to come back and comment because knowing the girl involved has everything to do with it. She was absolutely obsessed with Trias. A lot of us joked about it going as far as it did. And when we heard about it ...the reaction was "That figures." I personally didn't think that he would hurt his wife that he "loved" so much by doing something stupid like that. While her being obsessed with him doesn't justify him allowing this to happen. She is certainly not as much a "victim" of Trias' failure, but of the failure of all of us who saw the situation and merely laughed and shrugged. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5235 Registered: 1-2004 |
Bajou- I use to think it would be difficult for a woman to rape a man, until my brother in law worked for the Sex Crimes Unit of the Hudson County Prosecutors Office back in the early 90's. You are 100 percent correct it's the teacher's mental state of mind that should be questioned more then the student's. | ||
| Pippi Supporter Username: Pippi Post Number: 2298 Registered: 8-2003 |
he still should have kept it in his pants. particularly if she was a little mentally unstable. | ||
| Bajou Citizen Username: Bajou Post Number: 432 Registered: 2-2006 |
Hello Just How are you! I actually meant that the u-know-what (Pippi didn't want to use your name in vain LOL) has to work for anything to happen so I find it hard to believe that a guy can really be taken advantage of. Glock: It is not unusual for a student to have a crush on a teacher. It is not unusual for a young person to fantasize or obsess over somebody (movie stars, musicians etc). It all comes down to how the adult handles the unwanted attention. But having s*x in a closet in school with a student is not appropriate and should be criminal. It only fosters the low self esteem that the student had in the first place. I also don't expect a 16 year old to fully comprehend the damage her act has caused to his family. His wife must be horrified to not only know her husband has cheated but the fact that he has totally disregarded the consequences his actions might have on his family. I truly hope this man does not have a daughter, can you imagine how this poor girl would feel knowing this about her dad. | ||
| Alleygater Citizen Username: Alleygater  Post Number: 2176 Registered: 10-2004 |
devil's advocate again...But it would be ok if he had a little boy? | ||
| Bajou Citizen Username: Bajou Post Number: 436 Registered: 2-2006 |
No it would not...got to give that one to you and you know that's a hard thing for me to do. | ||
| Wendyn Supporter Username: Wendyn Post Number: 3145 Registered: 9-2002 |
I also don't expect a 16 year old to fully comprehend the damage her act has caused to his family. She didn't have an "act" that damaged anyone but herself. He did. | ||
| Alleygater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 2177 Registered: 10-2004 |
Imagine if you found out your 16 year old daughter was stalking one of teachers and had sexual relations with him in the school closet. I suspect you and your husband would be a bit ashamed that you hadn't instilled better values in your child, more common sense in her, provided her with some self esteem for herself and you and your family might not like the new found local attention. You all might even be a pretty gosh darned embaressed. So I wouldn't say that she only hurt herself. | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 583 Registered: 4-2006 |
There is never an excuse, in general, or specifically, for a high school teacher having sex with one of their students, consent or no consent. It's just wrong. At the same time I think there is another issue of parents abdicating their role as parents towards their kids when it comes to their kid's sexuality. They don't want to deal with the issue of their kid's sexuality, or engage in avoidance. A friend of mine who has been involved with teachers and administrators in a high school setting has detailed some of the types of seductive behavior they claim they have been subjected to, and I have to say it is a bit of a mind opener. You certainly can't rely on the schools as you never know if there is a predator lurking there. Kids are bombarded by sexual messages and content by the media, advertising, and fashion at an early age, and it is up to the parents to instill a good moral and ethical compass to guide them through it. | ||
| Wendyn Supporter Username: Wendyn Post Number: 3146 Registered: 9-2002 |
You are right Alley, I was thinking in terms of hurting the teacher's family. That was all him. | ||
| MeAndTheBoys Citizen Username: Meandtheboys Post Number: 3906 Registered: 12-2004 |
Alley, if this girl's parents cared enough to be embarrassed and ashamed by her actions, she wouldn't have done this in the first place. This is a child crying out for attention for some reason. Her parents ignore her, her father doesn't value her, whatever it is. When I think of who I was (a girl) at age 16, and who I was at age 30 (a woman and an adult with some life experience under my belt and in a position to make my own, somewhat intelligent and informed decisions) it kind of freaks me out that anyone would hold me to the same standards at totally different times and places in my life. I'm wondering, would we expect 16-year-old boys to make the same kind of intellingent, informed decisions as 30-year-old men? Hardly. I'll say it again, it's like comparing apples and bricks. Not even the same species. I wonder if some folks see a certian physical manifestation and automatically assume a level of maturity that couldn't possibly exist? Honestly, I'm baffled. Regardless of how she looks or how she acts, SHE IS STILL A "CHILD!" Glock wouldn't understand that because he is a child himself. But I would expect any "adult" (as in a teacher) to understand. | ||
| Peter G. Magic Citizen Username: Pmagic Post Number: 125 Registered: 10-2005 |
Albatross was right when he suggested that I was pointing out how uncomfortable this could make a high school teacher. How many of you have had teachers that weren't wrapped too tight? There is no justification for it happening, but I cannot picture a male teacher going to a superior and complaining how "uncomfortable" he was by the advances of a student. First, the administrator might think he was imagining it and was, himself, the problem. There are not many males who would want to admit to not being able to handle this type of situation. My other major concern is that it has been suggested that it wouldn't be against the law if the student was 18. How much difference is that two years really going to make? I really had assumed that the age of consent for a teacher with one of his/her students was 21. That is the number I thought I had read in an ACLU publication. If this girl was a senior what would happen? Or even a college student hoping to do well in a course? Lots of problems with this type of situation and I don't have the answers. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 1062 Registered: 7-2005 |
So we can try a 13 year old boy as an adult...but a 16 year old girl is still a child? And no, I'm not a child thank you. I just think that we throw the responsibility someone has for their actions far too much. | ||
| Peter G. Magic Citizen Username: Pmagic Post Number: 126 Registered: 10-2005 |
That is the problem with age of consent laws. One child is mature af 15 and another is not until about 25. Yes, the girl had attained the age of consent in New Jersey but the problem is that he was her teacher. The teacher-student relationship shouldn't be legal at any age as the teacher gives grades which helps the student get into a good college or from college into a high paying job. Both parties should have to wait until the teacher-student relationship is over. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5243 Registered: 1-2004 |
Alley- You said: >>>"Imagine if you found out your 16 year old daughter was stalking one of teachers and had sexual relations with him in the school closet."<<< Are you saying this in 'general?' Because I haven't seen anything in the papers that says this young lady stalked the teacher. Even if she did, the teacher must have had a screw loose to not say "NO!" I do not care how good of a teacher he was! If he did something with a student chances are he's cheated on his wife before. | ||
| Peter G. Magic Citizen Username: Pmagic Post Number: 127 Registered: 10-2005 |
JTA, with thirteen nieces and nephews you probably have some at CHS. Ask them about her. Yes, it is mostly his fault but she is not blameless. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5249 Registered: 1-2004 |
Peter Although I have three nieces and a nephews in high school, they don't live in South Orange or Maplewood. Only two of the 13 live in South Oange, the ten year old twins. But they go to a private school in Morris County. Even if this young lady was a total tramp who slept with lots of people and threw herself at the teacher, he still should have said "NO!" I'm sorry, I know this is not the popular opinion; but the teacher is supposed to be the adult. He should have known better. God help adult who takes advantage of my 16 year old niece; even if she were to throw herself at the teacher (which she woul never do). They better pray my brother doesn't get his hands on them before the police do. It does seem to be a double standard though. Anyone catch 20/20 last night? | ||
| Bajou Citizen Username: Bajou Post Number: 439 Registered: 2-2006 |
Frankly I find it just as horrible that there seem to be lot of female teachers who have deceided that the love of their life is 14 year old Johnny who never turns in his homework on time. I mean what the ef is up with a woman who looks at her sons friend and thinks "I'ma gonna get me some o that" This has nothing to do with true love, secret desires, pinning and heart break this is just a powerplay. One party needs to feel the power the other party is in awe over it. Strangely though when you think it through the need for power in both scenarios (older woman/ young man or as in this situation female student/ Mr. Trias). This very young girl was obsessed and was dying to find out if she could get him. He probably can't believe she finds him cute and even though he knows how wrong it is the moron goes for it. In the other cases the woman again seeks to be in the power position and hey how hard is it to seduce a 14 year old kid who has just been hit with his first wave of hormons. Nobody can tell me that an adult woman comes home from work, walks into her kitchen and finds love at first site when she looks at her 14 year old sons friend having a PB and J sandwich. I guess one part is loneliness and unhappiness and I guess another would be the need to feel some kind of power and control over somebody. I can't figure it out but in any case it sound like a •••••• place to be in. There is however no excuse to drag in a kid that has no idea about the true motives of the adults action. Sex is not the true motive...Sex can easily be had without loosing your freedom by breaking the law and if sex is all Mr. Trias wanted to have then he could have easily gotten that outside his circle of students. It makes it even worse to think that he, as an adult and teacher in a high school did not see it for what it is. Seems to me that Mr. Trias should not have been a teacher in the first place.... |
