| Author | Message | ||
     Ligeti Man Meat Citizen Username: Ligeti Post Number: 674 Registered: 7-2002  |
The end is near for these repulsive vehicles and their menacing drivers. The sooner these beasts are off the street, the better. http://www.edmunds.com/advice/specialreports/articles/115584/article.html Reject bullying drivers and their Anti-American gas guzzlers (Sean "Stupid" Hannity owns several). It's time to return control of the streets to heroic public advocates like Ligeti (owner of a Honda Civic). | ||
| Peter G. Magic Citizen Username: Pmagic Post Number: 132 Registered: 10-2005 |
I'm with you. Any sensible country with environmental sensibilities wouldn't allow a family car to be bigger than a station wagon. The worst is when one of them is parked on a corner and you have to turn, not being able to see around the monstrosity. And Hummers are the worst. Talk about ugly - just conspicuous consumption. | ||
| ess Citizen Username: Ess Post Number: 2207 Registered: 11-2001  |
I agree with you, Peter. Hummers are indeed the worst. I do understand the need for a larger vehicle (to seat more than 5 people,for example) but those beasts are simply ridiculous. Further, these enormous, conspicuous, ugly gas guzzlers increase our dependency on foreign oil. | ||
| bklyntonj Citizen Username: Bklyntonj Post Number: 724 Registered: 7-2003 |
You're all entitled to your opinion but remember, your ability to make these comments is also someone's ability to own a SUV. Both legal in the good ole US of A. | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese  Post Number: 1659 Registered: 7-2004  |
Honda Civics are great cars if you don't need comfort or quality. There is nothing Anti-American about gas guzzlers. Actually it is very American. We use almost 25% of the world’s oil, with a population percentage nowhere near that. | ||
| Ligeti Man Meat Citizen Username: Ligeti Post Number: 675 Registered: 7-2002 |
Another way of putting it: big, powerful and stupid. | ||
| SO Ref Citizen Username: So_refugee Post Number: 1897 Registered: 2-2005  |
Yep, that's America. | ||
| newone Citizen Username: Newone Post Number: 387 Registered: 8-2001 |
Sorry, still keeping mine... | ||
| Lydia Supporter Username: Lydial Post Number: 1960 Registered: 5-2001 |
Brooklynto -
Yeah, but gas-gulping SUV's are still pretty un-cool considering we're at war and ALL of us should be conserving energy and resources. Even if we weren't at war they would be un-cool. Look at the short-hand in movies and TV - the a-holes always drive the big SUV's - Tony Soprano, Christopher, villians on "24" - the only thing un-cooler than a big SUV is a big SUV with one of those "support our troops" stickers. | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 660 Registered: 4-2006 |
I take it you people are not the GM Yukon focus group then? | ||
| LilLB Citizen Username: Lillb Post Number: 1762 Registered: 10-2002  |
What does the car you drive have to do with being an American? I'm dependent on oil for heating my house. Does that make me un-American? And why does driving an SUV automatically make you a "Bullying Driver?" | ||
| ess Citizen Username: Ess Post Number: 2214 Registered: 11-2001 |
Bullying drivers come in all makes and models of vehicles. It just so happens that the larger SUVs, by nature of their size, seem more bullying on the road. And yes, it's difficult to see around them. My comment was specific to SUVs using more oil than perhaps smaller, non-SUV vehicles, and thus increasing our dependency on foreign oil. I suppose in a perfect world, or at least a perfect economy, the US would depend upon its own resources, which would be plentiful, and not be at the whim of oil cartels who would be engaging in price-gouging techniques in times of war (hypothetically speaking). That being said, I stand behind my Hummer remark. I think they are ugly and unecessarily fuel inefficient. They also remind me of Arnold Schwarzenegger, which, to me, is not a positive connotation. And the real reason I couldn't drive one of those honkin' large SUVs? I have enough trouble parallel parking my Subaru. I could not imagine parking something that size.  | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 11788 Registered: 5-2001 |
Who is more a good American, the guy driving an American built SUV or someone driving a foreign manufactured econobox? Personally I feel all cars weighing less than 3,750 pounds should be banned from the road for safety reasons.  | ||
| LilLB Citizen Username: Lillb Post Number: 1763 Registered: 10-2002 |
I have to admit, I make the sweeping assumption that men who drive Hummers are clearly trying to overcompensate for having a particularly small body part . I realize I have no scientific research to back this up, but I can't help but wonder.... | ||
| bklyntonj Citizen Username: Bklyntonj Post Number: 725 Registered: 7-2003 |
Lydia, actually everyone you mentioned shows how "cool" they are, not uncool. Also, you know what they say about opinions and ••••••••... Do you SUV-haters go around spewing your hate to smokers and drinkers too? SUV owners are unamerican, what's next, if you drive a German car you're an anti-semite? | ||
| notehead Supporter Username: Notehead Post Number: 3416 Registered: 5-2001  |
I'm amused that not all the purchasers of Hummers are men, because it DOES seem like every model of Hummer exists strictly for the purpose of letting men with self-image issues feel like they are projecting size or strength. What's the deal with the few women who buy them? Also, to recap from previous threads on the subject... let's not forget that some people have a genuine need for large SUV's and drive them competently and considerately. My personal guesstimate, based on the frequency that I see these cars occupied by ONE person, is that only around 5% of purchasers fall into this category, though. The rest certainly do have the right to buy whatever vehicle they like -- but that's not the point. The point is that these SUV buyers apparently do not care about the numerous problems that these vehicles cause. And if you don't give a hoot about everybody else, then you shouldn't be surprised if you get flack for it. A final point... somebody who owns a Suburban may be a train commuter who just uses it once in a while for camping or hauling stuff. That person may consume a lot less fuel and produce a much fewer emissions overall than somebody who owns a Corolla but drives it constantly. | ||
| breal Citizen Username: Breal Post Number: 935 Registered: 6-2002 |
You know who I hate? I hate the car companies that continue flogging SUVs in clever television and print ads, pimping for new SUV sales. They are hurting our country. They are unpatriotic. They should be seducing people to buy energy efficient cars--which most people half want to do already anyway. They could move LOTS of product if they turned their selling genius to this task. I'm not going to dump on people who already own SUVs. You can't change cars like you change sox. But I sure hate the auto industry pusher-man serving up those clever Humvee ads. We are at war. American soldiers are dying. Augie Schroeder died. We need to snap out of it. | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 5078 Registered: 5-2001 |
The way I learned to drive, we were taught to focus several cars ahead. That's where you're going to be soon, and you need to be aware of what's going on up there so that you can safely make adjustments early. With so many tall vehicles on the road now -- and sometimes it seems like more than half the cars out there aren't standard sedans or coupes anymore -- it's impossible to drive safely. Instead of a view 50-100 yards ahead all you can see is the vehicle immediately ahead of you; and that is simply not enough information. Whereas once you saw the car six ahead of you start to brake, now you don't realize traffic is slowing until it's right on top of you. Drivers are forced to react more quickly, making them more unpredictable. In tight New Jersey traffic, it doesn't take much to cause a massive tie-up, and I wonder if this has an impact on the number of accidents? | ||
| Lydia Supporter Username: Lydial Post Number: 1961 Registered: 5-2001 |
bklyntonj,
Whoa there! The only poster on this thread coming anywhere close to "spewing hatred" is you - no one else is swearing, no one else is getting angry. There's an excellent book about SUV's and the marketing of them - I can't remember the name of it - it came out about 2 years ago. It's basically the "Unsafe at Any Speed" for SUV's. The book cites a lot of the manufacturer's marketing methods, and the profile of the "typical" SUV owner as among other things, self-absorbed. insecure and vain. Again, this is not opinion, it's the marketing profile that the manufacturers use. Tom - I know what you mean about the problem of seeing over huge cars - it's like I've had to learn a whole new way of driving w/ a lot of inching over to the middle so I can get an idea of what's happening even 10 feet ahead. | ||
| LilLB Citizen Username: Lillb Post Number: 1766 Registered: 10-2002 |
Talking about the marketing of SUVs makes me think of Volkswagon's latest ads about having the "lowest ego emissions." I really hate these commercials because it implies that anyone who doesn't buy their car has an inflated ego, which seems a bit ridiculous and insulting to me. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 11791 Registered: 5-2001 |
There is an excelent book about unsafe small cars. It has been out for over 40 years and is named "Unsafe at Any Speed". It was written by Ralph Nader, an icon of the far, far left. I think small cars should be required to have a periscope mounted so the drivers can see traffic ahead. Why blame the full size cars? You are the ones choosing to drive small econoboxes, putting yourself and your family in grave danger. | ||
| bklyntonj Citizen Username: Bklyntonj Post Number: 726 Registered: 7-2003 |
Lydia, calling people uncool or unpatriotic for driving a SUV is ridiculous. Because we at war to gain control of more of the earth's oil is a reason to question a SUV owner's patriotism? I wonder if you same people were feeling this way when you paid your heating bills this past winter? So I guess anyone who had their heat above, I don't know, 65 degrees would be the equivalent to a SUV owner? This is NJ. If you can't drive a SUV, a smaller car won't matter, you just can't drive. | ||
| ffof Citizen Username: Ffof Post Number: 4765 Registered: 5-2001  |
bkln- hate to burst your bubble, but steroidal SUVs are way uncool. Everyone has to heat their home, but people do not need to buy hulkin' humvees. | ||
| Lydia Supporter Username: Lydial Post Number: 1962 Registered: 5-2001 |
Broklyn, I found the book - it's called "high and Mighty" by Keith Bradsher. First of all, it's my opinion that SUV's are not cool, but it's terribly uncool of me to say cool or uncool, so maybe I should just say more accurately that SUV's are unsafe(especially to car drivers sharing the road) wasteful (fact), and graceless (that's opinion, not fact) "Sport Utility owners tend to be more like,'I wonder how people view me' and are more willing to trade off flexibility or functionality to get that" The above is a quote from Fred Schaafsma, GM's top engineer for the initial planning stages of new vehicles. I take it you drive an SUV Brklyntonj - OK, that's your choice. But to say that you need an SUV to drive in NJ is just not true. | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 5081 Registered: 5-2001 |
Bob K, I don't drive an econobox, I drive a 4-door Honda Accord. And my problem would be even worse if I were to buy a really hot 2-door Mercedes or BMW. My wife has a Dodge Caravan, and even in THAT it's hard to see over the Navigators and their ilk. One of the reasons SUVs appear to be more economical, at least in dollars-per-pound, is because they're not subject to the same safety standards because they aren't classed as passenger cars by the safety board. So in terms of rolling over and side impact, they're less safe than a lot of econoboxes. In a head-on they win, but that's about it. | ||
| Ligeti Man Meat Citizen Username: Ligeti Post Number: 676 Registered: 7-2002 |
Those of us who drive normal cars are often handicapped by the mass of SUVs on the road. We can't see over or around these awful beasts (a safety hazard), and we are often jipped out of parking space. But more importantly: we are far more likely to be injured or killed in an accident with an SUV than with a sensible car. The All-American sentiment that bigger and powerful is better has a considerable downside for those of us who aren't afflicted with the self-image issues many SUV drivers have. The SUV manufacturer's own marketing research indicates SUVs tend to be purchased by people who are insecure, vain, self-centered and self-absorbed. Research also suggests that many SUV drivers want control over the people around them. A Ford market researcher says the SUV craze is "about not letting anything get in your way, and at the extreme, about intimidating others to get our of your way." Hummers are particularly gross. Look at who drives them: mostly short, balding pipsqueaks wearing backwards baseball caps, yakking on their cellphone headsets and listening to Howard Stern. I read somewhere that 90% of the guns in the world are owned by Americans. Once I rid the landscape of SUVs, I'm going after hunters. Cowards. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 14661 Registered: 1-2003  |
If owners had to pay real cost, they wouldn't buy so many extravagances, and I'm not just talking about SUV's. Real costs include the injuries and deaths their consumer goods cost and the pollution they cause and the unnecessary depletion of fossil fuel supplies. The use of fossil fuels borrows from our past and our future at the same time, which is to say we're paying much too little, compared with real cost. | ||
| LilLB Citizen Username: Lillb Post Number: 1771 Registered: 10-2002 |
I don't know this for a fact, but would think it's likely that the same marketing campaign for the "insecure, vain, self-centered and self-absorbed" is fairly similar to the marketing campaign used for many "regular" cars, particularly luxury vehicles. SUV owners are just an easy target for our outrage. That said, I too hate being behind these bohemith vehicles - I can't see what's happening up ahead on the road, and it does feel a bit dangerous. I don't have an SUV, but wish I did. I'm sick of trying to fit things into my little 2-door fuel efficient car. With our very low fuel consumption (we don't do a whole lot of driving) - even if I had an SUV, I'd still probably be considered more "environmentally friendly" than those driving many "fuel efficient" cars who drive a lot. | ||
| newone Citizen Username: Newone Post Number: 388 Registered: 8-2001 |
Boy, can't you just drive a vehicle because that is what you like to drive? I never felt superior, vain, self absorbed or anything else mentioned above - I just prefer to drive an SUV (and I do feel safer in one - years ago, the last time I owned an economy car, I was rear ended by a station wagon on Wyoming. My car was totaled and I had a nice case of whiplash. After that, it was goodbye small cars)...call me whatever you like but that's my choice to drive an SUV and I'm sticking to it. | ||
| Lydia Supporter Username: Lydial Post Number: 1963 Registered: 5-2001 |
Newone - No one's calling anyone vain or insecure. That's the profile that marketing groups came up with for SUV purchasers. I'd say about a third of my friends drive SUV's, and they're all fine caring folks. Why they bought SUV's - who knows? I think it's mostly the group mentality around here - everyone seems to have an SUV, so why not me/us? BTW - am I the only one who has to peek inside to see what Hummer drivers look like? | ||
| newone Citizen Username: Newone Post Number: 389 Registered: 8-2001 |
Well, if I had to buy another SUV now I would get this one. Looks like you can do some great offroading in it!  | ||
| Lydia Supporter Username: Lydial Post Number: 1965 Registered: 5-2001 |
Newone -
Okaaay...but where are you going to off-road around here? How often do SUV owners off-road at all? In order for an SUV to go off-road, the underbody has to be high enough not to scrape on rocks and boulders. That means the floor of the passenger area has to be very high and makes the usuable space inside the cabin even smaller. Unless you're going off-road regularly, it makes more sense to rent an SUV once or twice a year than to make an SUV your daily vehicle. | ||
| Kitchenguru Citizen Username: Kitchenguru Post Number: 131 Registered: 9-2005 |
I need my SUV for work but I would have a hard time driving anything else in this area. I have been rear-ended by a Verizon utility truck while waiting for someone to park in front of a school in SO. I have been broad-sided by someone who made a u-turn without looking in Maplewood(this person was visiting from another state) and rear-ended while stopped at a light on SO Ave in front of the train station by a teenager. It's too congested around here for me to consider anything smaller. I have not sustained any injuries and I am sure it has a lot to do with the construction of my German SUV. I had a chuckle one day at Enterprise on Valley Street listening to some of the stories about accident victims. I laughed because I have been there and done that so many times in just three years. One story was about a Newark official who had just dropped off his rental vehicle and been given a ride to the body shop when he pulled out onto Valley in his newly repaired vehicle only to be rear-ended again. I was thinking of trading my truck for a compact and just renting bigger vehicles as needed but that story changed my mind. | ||
| newone Citizen Username: Newone Post Number: 390 Registered: 8-2001 |
I've been off road with my Jeep and 4Runners down the shore in the winter and with a friend near his home in Pennsy. Both vehicles had plenty of clearance for the areas. I wouldn't consider driving anything else at this point (been driving them for close to 17 years). | ||
| crabby Citizen Username: Crabbyappleton Post Number: 667 Registered: 1-2004 |
So what do you need the clearance for around town? Small children? Do you feel all manly when you're tearing up the seashore? | ||
| Ligeti Man Meat Citizen Username: Ligeti Post Number: 677 Registered: 7-2002 |
Seems like folks of our generation have convinced themselves they have no choice but to armor up in order to make it to Whole Foods safely. Mission objective: organic vidalia onions. Reject Americans' obsession with big, powerful toys: SUVs, wide screen plasma TVs, shotguns and computers that mostly do stuff that doesn't need to be done. | ||
| tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 4370 Registered: 12-2001  |
We are soooo lucky that tracked vehicles aren't street legal. There would be more than a few over-compensated people driving M113s. Off road, it must be said, tracked vehicles rule.  | ||
| newone Citizen Username: Newone Post Number: 391 Registered: 8-2001 |
Yes crabby, I do...small children 150 points but the big bonus are the seniors 1000 points!!! (I was responding to Lydia BTW). Never said I "tear up the seashore" I rode on the beach. I love you people, god forbid you don't conform to what you want we're anti-american, compensating for small twigs and berries and whatever else you want to believe. Like I said earlier, it's what I drive and will continue to drive whether you like it or not. Free choice...take it or leave it. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 14680 Registered: 1-2003 |
Yes, newone, we should have free choice, especially when the real cost is passed down to the consumer. That might make gas guzzlers unaffordable. | ||
| newone Citizen Username: Newone Post Number: 392 Registered: 8-2001 |
As long as people can afford them and know what they're getting into regarding costs for gas and servicing, etc. let them buy what they want. My only beef (for some, not all) is if you buy an SUV, learn how to drive and park it - know the dimensions so that you can park it correctly. I'm outta here...I'll be back for the gun control topic that usually starts up after the anti-SUV topic fades out...  |
